Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 29,316
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Post by Sephiroth on Dec 8, 2013 22:31:33 GMT -5
In the ever popular realm of fantasy scenarios in wrestling, this is one I honestly can't say I have ever seen touched on. Its perfectly common knowledge that Vince made Gangne and offer when he was beginning his drive for wrestling dominance, and Verne refused-so Vince proceeded to throw big money at some of Verne's top talent to jump ship AND did everything he could to drive the AWA out of various television markets. But how different might things have been if Verne had actually taken Vince's offer and sold the AWA? My guess is that actually it would have been ALOT different. Nick Bockwinkel very likely may have been one of Hogan's biggest opponents during the Rock N Wrestling era, possibly even at the first Wrestlemania. The AWA title might have been merged with the WWF belt, making its legacy part of the Undisputed Title we have today. Vince may well have made Lee Marshall his announcer instead of Gorilla Monsoon. But the potential reverberations would go far beyond just the 80's wrestling boom; without the AWA there likely would not have been an Eric Bischoff, and without Eric Bischoff there would not have been the Monday Night Wars. Any other thoughts?
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Post by Todd Pettengill on Dec 8, 2013 22:43:44 GMT -5
Verne would've been a very wealthy man, that's for sure. I don't think the WWF would have done any Title unification matches, but it's possible. I'd also assume that acquiring the AWA wouldn't mean that Vince also acquired their talent pool. Contracts weren't as lengthy as they are today. I think the AWA guys would've been "free agents."
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Dec 8, 2013 22:47:38 GMT -5
Invasion prequel!
“The name on the contract says 'McMahon', but it's signed by 'Vinec McMahon'”
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Lancers
El Dandy
Oh you
Posts: 7,951
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Post by Lancers on Dec 8, 2013 23:03:18 GMT -5
Invasion prequel! “The name on the contract says 'McMahon', but it's signed by 'Vinec McMahon'” Vince's cursive is a little sloppy. His e's look like c's and vice versa. It explains why he wrote 'no rcecving bonus for ehristmas' on all those memos. |
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Post by molson5 on Dec 8, 2013 23:19:43 GMT -5
This was back in the days when the WWF did not acknowledge the existence of other wrestling companies, and wanted everyone to view "pro wrestling" and "WWF" as meaning essentially the same thing, so don't think we'd ever see any reference to AWA on WWF programming. Vince would take their TV syndication deals and close AWA down. He could in theory have signed some of the AWA talent, but he pretty much did that anyway.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Dec 9, 2013 0:38:57 GMT -5
What might have been game-changing is if WWF had acquired AWA's television deal with ESPN.
WWF was already on USA Network, but ESPN was at that time available on many more cable systems -- USA at the time was hit and miss on local cable depending on where you lived and ESPN expanded into new markets much more rapidly.
Now ESPN treated AWA as a stepchild but they were also dealing with an inferior product that had lower production values and a less-than-astute businessman in Gagne -- so to blame ESPN and not acknowledge the problems on the other end doesn't consider the whole picture. Vince McMahon might have been able to convince his neighbors (ESPN and WWF both operating out of Connecticut) to increase their investment in and commitment to wrestling programming over time.
If that had happened a lot of history would have been rewritten.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 29,316
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Post by Sephiroth on Dec 9, 2013 9:12:10 GMT -5
This was back in the days when the WWF did not acknowledge the existence of other wrestling companies, and wanted everyone to view "pro wrestling" and "WWF" as meaning essentially the same thing, so don't think we'd ever see any reference to AWA on WWF programming. Vince would take their TV syndication deals and close AWA down. He could in theory have signed some of the AWA talent, but he pretty much did that anyway. True, but the question is which talent. As I said earlier, I could have seen Vince bring in Nick Bockwinkel as one of Hogan's opponents, since they had feuded long term for the title in the AWA. I could possibly have seen him in Piper or Bundy's place at the first two Wrestlemania's. |
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Post by molson5 on Dec 9, 2013 14:13:53 GMT -5
Ya, I could see them using Bockwinkle in the Harley Race role, managed by Bobby Heenan. Bockwinkle probably had more left in the tank at that point than Race did during his WWF run.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 29,316
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Post by Sephiroth on Dec 9, 2013 15:02:31 GMT -5
Ya, I could see them using Bockwinkle in the Harley Race role, managed by Bobby Heenan. Bockwinkle probably had more left in the tank at that point than Race did during his WWF run. I also expect the Gagne family would have gotten some sort of lifetime, do nothing gig out of it-no way Verne would have sold without his. His son probably would have gotten a job as a referee or writer who's ideas never get used. |
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Post by tigermaskxxxvii on Dec 9, 2013 15:56:15 GMT -5
The AWA title might have been merged with the WWF belt, making its legacy part of the Undisputed Title we have today. There's still a chance for that to happen. There's still plenty of time to book Larry Zbyszko for WrestleMania XXX. |
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Steveweiser
Dalek
Mickie Mickie You're So Fine... Hey Mickie!
THE GRAPS
Posts: 50,249
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Post by Steveweiser on Dec 9, 2013 16:40:48 GMT -5
Does Vinec McMahon know Rice Flair by any chance?
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Post by Bootista on Dec 9, 2013 17:00:05 GMT -5
Does Vinec McMahon know Rice Flair by any chance? Yep, They fought each other with Bert Hart as special guest referee and FM Punk on Commentary |
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Dec 10, 2013 21:14:40 GMT -5
I'm not seeing things being too much different. Vince basically took whatever AWA talent he wanted anyways so it's not like he would've acquired any names he would've seen anything big in. He wasn't gonna do any kind of invasion angle or a title unification at the time. He certainly wasn't gonna give the Gagne's the book. Maybe the AWA deal would've given them more of a television presence, but that's about it.
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Post by thegatewaydrug on Dec 11, 2013 0:26:21 GMT -5
So who all came directly from AWA?
Hogan, Heenan, Okerlund, Perfect, Rockers (then fired and went right back to AWA), Martel and I guess you could count Badd Co. (Tanaka and Diamond) as company was dying.
Road Warriors went to JCP/NWA from AWA?
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Post by molson5 on Dec 11, 2013 0:39:18 GMT -5
So who all came directly from AWA? Hogan, Heenan, Okerlund, Perfect, Rockers (then fired and went right back to AWA), Martel and I guess you could count Badd Co. (Tanaka and Diamond) as company was dying. Road Warriors went to JCP/NWA from AWA? In addition to those you mentioned: Mad Dog Vachon (he didn't do much in the WWF, but it was still a loss for the AWA) Sgt. Slaughter The Destruction Crew/Beverly Brothers Adrian Adonis Jim Brunzell Jesse Ventura Yokozuna Boris Zukhov Jimmy Snuka Ken Patera So not a ton of huge stars, but obviously it was a huge ongoing issue for the AWA, especially when you include the guys who left for other places besides the WWF, like the Nasty Boys, Stan Hansen, Vader, Billy Graham, Scott Hall, |
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847 
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Post by Reflecto on Dec 11, 2013 0:54:39 GMT -5
Vince wouldn't have done as well with the AWA. It's important to keep in mind, Vince Jr. wanted to buy the AWA mainly because Vince Sr. knew Vince Jr. planned to take his promotion national, and Senior didn't particularly approve. Even when Senior finally sold to Junior, he did so with a series of contingency moves [he missed one payment, the promotion is surrendered to Senior's other partners.] So, from there we know- AWA and WWF wouldn't completely merge immediately.
From there, the real problems: The biggest things that let WWF take over the world were Geography, Cable, and "Cool".
Geography-wise, Vince is taking his plan of attack outside the major media hub-heavy Northeast [with WWF] and into the less media hub-heavy Midwest. The biggest city that Vince would receive with the AWA would be Chicago- and considering that a AWA purchase would likely lead to the Gagnes having some place in the company (and with how they were very local, it's likely Vince has to build Minneapolis as his base of operations- which isn't exactly a big media market.) Best case scenario: Vince does like AWA did when they got their ESPN deal and builds out of a Las Vegas casino.
Cable was the same problem- WWF had cable deals in place before Vince McMahon even bought the company, while AWA was behind the eight ball against WWF and Mid-Atlantic/World Class. Vince could likely fight back from it quickly, but an established name works better.
The final part- the "cool" factor- would really clobber a Vince-owned AWA. Vince's big success with the Rock and Wrestling era was making WWF seem cool. By allying with Cyndi Lauper and Mr. T, he made WWE seem like the place to be, which turned to the WWF superstars being cool as well (and by the way- Lauper went to WWF because she had a prior friendship with Lou Albano, known to be one of Senior's lifers, and when you add to that the New York City to Minneapolis dropoff, Junior would have no chance in hell of getting them to go to the AWA.) . By contrast...in the 1980s, most of the "cooler" AWA guys ended up signed away by WWF, and the AWA regulars who left were talented wrestlers, but were also aging and not as cool as the other promotions. Vince would keep Hulk Hogan as his crown jewel, but that could have been a what if?? of it own (The AWA only got Sgt. Slaughter, it's big "cool" draw, because Slaughter left WWF in Junior's era over merchandising problems- so it would end up as a "AWA with Hulk Hogan leading the charge vs. a WWF with Sgt. Slaughter as its top draw.)
End result: Vince Jr. would have had to kill himself getting on cable TV with less-polished workers, for a promotion based in a non-media hub of Minneapolis (so he wouldn't have the glitz and glamour to help him go national), and would have to go in with the lower prestige, lower-market, lower-exposure promotion to get all the biggest stars in the territories to risk being blackballed for putting their stock in with him. (and more, since Vince would probably have to increase the exposure by finding Lawler's price and finding just what price makes Fritz give him the Von Erichs).
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Post by thegatewaydrug on Dec 11, 2013 1:12:05 GMT -5
So who all came directly from AWA? Hogan, Heenan, Okerlund, Perfect, Rockers (then fired and went right back to AWA), Martel and I guess you could count Badd Co. (Tanaka and Diamond) as company was dying. Road Warriors went to JCP/NWA from AWA? In addition to those you mentioned: Mad Dog Vachon (he didn't do much in the WWF, but it was still a loss for the AWA) Sgt. Slaughter The Destruction Crew/Beverly Brothers Adrian Adonis Jim Brunzell Jesse Ventura Yokozuna Boris Zukhov Jimmy Snuka Ken Patera So not a ton of huge stars, but obviously it was a huge ongoing issue for the AWA, especially when you include the guys who left for other places besides the WWF, like the Nasty Boys, Stan Hansen, Vader, Billy Graham, Scott Hall, Ahh of course- The East/West Connection, The Killer Bees, Kokina Maxinus, etc. Snuka was in AWA? Never knew that. On a completely different topic, where did Hall go between AWA and showing up in WCW as Gator Hall and/or the Diamond Stud? Also did Minnesotan Rick Rude get his start in AWA? |
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Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 11, 2013 17:35:45 GMT -5
As part of the deal of selling AWA to WWF, the main event for Wrestlemania that year would had been Hulk Hogan vs Greg Gagne for the WWF title.
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Post by cabbageboy on Dec 11, 2013 18:45:29 GMT -5
I don't think Rude was ever in the AWA but I might be wrong. He was definitely in the Memphis area circa 1984 though. As far as what Vince would have done with the AWA, it would have gone pretty much the same way. Except Vince would have spent far more money on a declining promotion and may not have signed the post 1985 era guys that were probably bigger long term stars than most of the guys (Rockers, Hennig, etc.).
Vince was always too smart to do the sucker move of buying other promotions. He would sign some of their guys and run bigger venues in that city or territory, and thus hurt that promotion. The WWF never quite made inroads in the Mid Atlantic region during the 80s, and never really did much in the Memphis territory either until co-promoting in the early 1990s.
Witness how Vince and Crockett handled the UWF's demise. Crockett bought up all their assets and TV, while Vince didn't bother with all that and just signed the guys he wanted (Dibiase, Duggan, One Man Gang, etc.).
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Dec 11, 2013 20:00:54 GMT -5
Memory may be fuzzy, but IIRC, there was never an offer from Vince to Verne. A trip to Minneapolis to discuss business happened and then the famous "I don't negotiate!" Line from Vince to Verne. I don't think it helps Vince to buy them out. He got everybody he wanted cheaper than it would have cost him to buy out the whole company and maintain an office in Miniapolis. Seriously, what does or can Vince do with Jerry Blackwell and Buck Zumhoff? Are they going to do foam fingers and t shirts around those type of wrestlers? No. Vince took the talent he wanted and for far less than he would have in a straight buy out. But the development of some stars later could have been much different. Imagine Curt Henning with no organic development as he had in AWA. Scott Hall. Shawn Michaels and Marty Jennety. The time lost for just those guys has long ranging effects on wrestling if they don't learn their craft in the AWA and draw Vince's attention on their TV
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