Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Dec 15, 2013 18:43:37 GMT -5
It's a TLC match so hopefully the crowd isn't ungrateful and shows these 2 guys the respect they deserve for beating each other with weapons for 30 minutes LMAO, "ungrateful." Damn those rotten assholes for paying money to see a show and daring to give their opinion on it! Not that I disagree with it, but fans should also give Cena/Orton a chance at least. If they both show they don't give a sh** in the ring then yea chant for D-Bryan or who ever. But I still think you should go into this match with an open mind that maybe this match will be pretty good.
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Post by kamero00 on Dec 15, 2013 18:44:42 GMT -5
Imagine if the WWE chose Mable in 1997 instead of a very hot Steve Austin in terms of getting pushed.
Granted that example is a little extreme, but if the WWE had the same mindset in '97, as they do now, the Attitude Era may never have happened. Why not give the people what they paid to see? I don't get it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2013 18:45:59 GMT -5
What do you mean he's over with the live audience? Are you implying he's only over in crowds?
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 15, 2013 18:46:15 GMT -5
LMAO, "ungrateful." Damn those rotten assholes for paying money to see a show and daring to give their opinion on it! Not that I disagree with it, but fans should also give Cena/Orton a chance at least. If they both show they don't give a sh** in the ring then yea chant for D-Bryan or who ever. But I still think you should go into this match with an open mind that maybe this match will be pretty good. Like, I get that but at the same time, those fans paid good money to see the show. To call them "ungrateful" is complete horseshit, IMO. If the crowd isn't into the match, that's WWE/Orton & Cena's fault, not the crowd. If the crowd turns on the match, oh well. Either, a. Don't run this town anymore or B. Take it as a sign and make some changes. The solution is not to get mad at the crowd.
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Boo!
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Post by Boo! on Dec 15, 2013 18:46:41 GMT -5
Isnt that going a bit far? I understand "we want X in main event", but this? And where will it stop. Will soon crowds crap over any main where the person they think should be there isn't. We're not a million miles away then from "This show must be booked like this____ or we riot" What exactly is wrong with the fans saying what they want? If they cheer for what Vince wants then Vince won't know that they want something different. But wrestling has always worked like that. But you've never really had an audience that's crapped all over other matches to make their point. Other than when Flair left WCW abruptly, I cannot recall it. There has to be an element of passivity from an audience or else you may as well book the entire show via a poll on the WWE app. Even if they do decide to push Bryan there are likely going to be ways they''ll want to take advantage of his popularity and lead up to a big "YES!" moment rather than just throw him in now, at what is traditionally the ass-end of the year for WWE, before the big WM push, just because crowds demand it. So yeah show he's popular and cheer and support him but this whole "Anything but Bryan sucks" attitude, I fear we're getting is both kinda rude to the two guys who will be in the ring and may also be counter productive. If I was WWE I'd place Bryan in Mania main event probably following Rumble win. That'd be a great way to really capitalise on this momentum. This whole "Bryan now, now, now, now" thing mightn't be wise and mightn't be the way WWE wants to present it. Surely there is only so much fans should be able to or think they should be able to dictate.
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Welfare Willis
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Post by Welfare Willis on Dec 15, 2013 18:48:03 GMT -5
I'm not sure. Is the Houston a smarky crowd?
I don't think they are. I can't imagine they'd react like Philly or Chicago.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Dec 15, 2013 18:49:33 GMT -5
If the crowds really want to see Daniel Bryan in the main event, the easy solution would be to have Daniel Bryan in the main event.
Instead, we have the most tired combination possible in John Cena vs. Randy Orton in a brutal TLC match, with Cena having rushed back way too soon and not even close to 100% and Randy Orton, a guy known for being injury prone.
This could be a train wreck waiting to happen.
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kidglov3s
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Post by kidglov3s on Dec 15, 2013 18:49:38 GMT -5
What exactly is wrong with the fans saying what they want? If they cheer for what Vince wants then Vince won't know that they want something different. But wrestling has always worked like that. But you've never really had an audience that's crapped all over other matches to make their point. Other than when Flair left WCW abruptly, I cannot recall it. There has to be an element of passivity from an audience or else you may as well book the entire show via a poll on the WWE app. Even if they do decide to push Bryan there are likely going to be ways they''ll want to take advantage of his popularity and lead up to a big "YES!" moment rather than just throw him in now, at what is traditionally the ass-end of the year for WWE, before the big WM push, just because crowds demand it. So yeah show he's popular and cheer and support him but this whole "Anything but Bryan sucks" attitude, I fear we're getting is both kinda rude to the two guys who will be in the ring and may also be counter productive. If I was WWE I'd place Bryan in Mania main event probably following Rumble win. That'd be a great way to really capitalise on this momentum. This whole "Bryan now, now, now, now" thing mightn't be wise and mightn't be the way WWE wants to present it. Surely there is only so much fans should be able to or think they should be able to dictate. I think what definitely wasn't wise was building Bryan to the title, immediately screwing him, ending like 8 shows in a row with him beaten down and looking like a complete helpless idiot, then screwing him out of 3 PPV matches, HEY HERES BIG SHOW AND JOHN CENA WOO! What they've done here defies all classic notions of solid wrestling booking. Even if they commit to pushing him in the future it still doesn't excuse how spectacularly tune deaf the product has been since August.
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Bub (BLM)
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Dec 15, 2013 18:51:10 GMT -5
If Daniel Bryan is who they want they should chant for Daniel Bryan until it gets through the wax in WWE's ears. Isnt that going a bit far? I understand "we want X in main event", but this? And where will it stop. Will soon crowds crap over any main where the person they think should be there isn't. We're not a million miles away then from "This show must be booked like this____ or we riot" I think it's perfectly justified. WWE is a consumer-driven company. They literally could not and would not exist without our money. Tickets for PPVs go on sale about 4 months in advance, meaning these people paid their money when Bryan was main-eventing. If Bryan is what they paid to see, they should chant it straight through the main-event. This has gone well beyond a "smark" thing. Paying customers in every state are chanting for Bryan. What WWE is doing right now is telling their consumer to f*** off.
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Dec 15, 2013 18:53:43 GMT -5
Not that I disagree with it, but fans should also give Cena/Orton a chance at least. If they both show they don't give a sh** in the ring then yea chant for D-Bryan or who ever. But I still think you should go into this match with an open mind that maybe this match will be pretty good. Like, I get that but at the same time, those fans paid good money to see the show. To call them "ungrateful" is complete horseshit, IMO. If the crowd isn't into the match, that's WWE/Orton & Cena's fault, not the crowd. If the crowd turns on the match, oh well. Either, a. Don't run this town anymore or B. Take it as a sign and make some changes. The solution is not to get mad at the crowd. Sure I don't really disagree with what your saying. I personally could care less about what a crowd chants as long as the give the performers in the ring a shot. Like if Orton and Cena are taking ridiculously dangerous bumps 5 minutes into the match and the crowd is still sh***** on it, I feel that's kinda disrespectful to the workers putting their bodies on the line. I might be the only 1 in this camp, but I still feel no matter how much you hate an angle/performer you should give the people in the ring an open mind and an opportunity to entertain you.
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Boo!
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Post by Boo! on Dec 15, 2013 18:56:09 GMT -5
But wrestling has always worked like that. But you've never really had an audience that's crapped all over other matches to make their point. Other than when Flair left WCW abruptly, I cannot recall it. There has to be an element of passivity from an audience or else you may as well book the entire show via a poll on the WWE app. Even if they do decide to push Bryan there are likely going to be ways they''ll want to take advantage of his popularity and lead up to a big "YES!" moment rather than just throw him in now, at what is traditionally the ass-end of the year for WWE, before the big WM push, just because crowds demand it. So yeah show he's popular and cheer and support him but this whole "Anything but Bryan sucks" attitude, I fear we're getting is both kinda rude to the two guys who will be in the ring and may also be counter productive. If I was WWE I'd place Bryan in Mania main event probably following Rumble win. That'd be a great way to really capitalise on this momentum. This whole "Bryan now, now, now, now" thing mightn't be wise and mightn't be the way WWE wants to present it. Surely there is only so much fans should be able to or think they should be able to dictate. I think what definitely wasn't wise was building Bryan to the title, immediately screwing him, ending like 8 shows in a row with him beaten down and looking like a complete helpless idiot, then screwing him out of 3 PPV matches, HEY HERES BIG SHOW AND JOHN CENA WOO! What they've done here defies all classic notions of solid wrestling booking. But surely the point is hammered home now? At least give WWE breathing space to reformulate Bryan into the spot in way that makes sense and will garner perhaps bigger ratings/buys than just shoehorning him in last minute. Don't we usually always call for something that's planned, well thought through, entertaining and makes sense? Yes they messed up with how they booked him before but suddenly dropping him into essentially someone else's main event story, wouldn't make sense at all. I personally think they've done a top job with Cena vs Orton, at least in the last week of programming. Bryan will be back in the scene when they kick on for the Road to WM but I don't get why having him pop up and be in the ME in the middle of someone else's storyline is what people want to see.
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Post by Starshine on Dec 15, 2013 18:56:18 GMT -5
What exactly is wrong with the fans saying what they want? If they cheer for what Vince wants then Vince won't know that they want something different. But wrestling has always worked like that. But you've never really had an audience that's crapped all over other matches to make their point. Other than when Flair left WCW abruptly, I cannot recall it. There has to be an element of passivity from an audience or else you may as well book the entire show via a poll on the WWE app. Even if they do decide to push Bryan there are likely going to be ways they''ll want to take advantage of his popularity and lead up to a big "YES!" moment rather than just throw him in now, at what is traditionally the ass-end of the year for WWE, before the big WM push, just because crowds demand it. So yeah show he's popular and cheer and support him but this whole "Anything but Bryan sucks" attitude, I fear we're getting is both kinda rude to the two guys who will be in the ring and may also be counter productive. If I was WWE I'd place Bryan in Mania main event probably following Rumble win. That'd be a great way to really capitalise on this momentum. This whole "Bryan now, now, now, now" thing mightn't be wise and mightn't be the way WWE wants to present it. Surely there is only so much fans should be able to or think they should be able to dictate. But the reason this time of the year is so slow is because they won't push anything big and instead leave us with unimaginative feuds like how Big Show was broke. The whole "moment" schtick people are so attached to is another reason as to why things have been so frickin predictable over the past number of years. You can always guess what's going to happen at what point, and it's conditioned us to only care about a scant few number of dates throughout the year. Why not do it now, he's over as hell already. Why not make that moment here instead of a few months when his heat may have comparatively died down. It would be really nice not to sit through this lag stretch of the year and instead be excited for what's happening at this moment instead of where we are dreading that recent PPV trends will continue today.
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Welfare Willis
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Post by Welfare Willis on Dec 15, 2013 18:56:25 GMT -5
If the crowds really want to see Daniel Bryan in the main event, the easy solution would be to have Daniel Bryan in the main event. Instead, we have the most tired combination possible in John Cena vs. Randy Orton in a brutal TLC match, with Cena having rushed back way too soon and not even close to 100% and Randy Orton, a guy known for being injury prone. This could be a train wreck waiting to happen. Not just injury prone, but prone to acts of anger, pooing, and drugging.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Dec 15, 2013 18:57:54 GMT -5
If the crowds really want to see Daniel Bryan in the main event, the easy solution would be to have Daniel Bryan in the main event. Instead, we have the most tired combination possible in John Cena vs. Randy Orton in a brutal TLC match, with Cena having rushed back way too soon and not even close to 100% and Randy Orton, a guy known for being injury prone. This could be a train wreck waiting to happen. Not just injury prone, but prone to acts of anger, pooing, and drugging. You forgot the most heinous and diabolical of his actions, posting about his family on Facebook.
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Post by bestthateverdidit on Dec 15, 2013 18:58:10 GMT -5
They were chanting for Bryan last month when the WWE decided to push Big Show. They were chanting for Bryan when WWE announced that this would be the biggest match of all time. They were chanting for Bryan on Raw on Monday night. WWE had Bryan involved in that particular build segment. If they chant for Bryan tonight, why would anyone be surprised? The people want D Bryan to be in the main event, not demoted to some pointless feud with the Wyatt Family.
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Post by angryfan on Dec 15, 2013 18:58:44 GMT -5
If it were a one off situation, I could see the disrespectful side. "Give them a chance to win you over" is valid, and makes sense. However, the only thing "new" about this match is that we're going from two props to one prop, and possibly getting a Triple H run in which isn't all that unusual.
Both guys, I'm sure, will work hard, but if the fans crap on the match it's most likely due to "Hey, we've seen this, we're tired of both of you, we want to cheer this other guy".
Honestly, if they boo tonight, it's just like WCW crowds booing babyface Hogan in 1995 and early 1996. They knew what was coming and didn't care for it, or a sizable portion didn't. So they voiced their displeasure and made WCW try something new. It worked out ok, I'd say.
WWE seems to react to that kind of situation by shuffling the same five or six cards around and slapping a "brand new" label on it.
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Boo!
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Post by Boo! on Dec 15, 2013 19:00:53 GMT -5
If they wanted to do a title unification match Bryan, by default, doesn't really fit into it. I'd rather he was giving his own reason/storyline for being in the main event rather than being dropped in like a hastily arranged edit. That's no real way to launch someone.
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kidglov3s
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Post by kidglov3s on Dec 15, 2013 19:06:08 GMT -5
I think what definitely wasn't wise was building Bryan to the title, immediately screwing him, ending like 8 shows in a row with him beaten down and looking like a complete helpless idiot, then screwing him out of 3 PPV matches, HEY HERES BIG SHOW AND JOHN CENA WOO! What they've done here defies all classic notions of solid wrestling booking. But surely the point is hammered home now? At least give WWE breathing space to reformulate Bryan into the spot in way that makes sense and will garner perhaps bigger ratings/buys than just shoehorning him in last minute. Don't we usually always call for something that's planned, well thought through, entertaining and makes sense? Yes they messed up with how they booked him before but suddenly dropping him into essentially someone else's main event story, wouldn't make sense at all. I personally think they've done a top job with Cena vs Orton, at least in the last week of programming. Bryan will be back in the scene when they kick on for the Road to WM but I don't get why having him pop up and be in the ME in the middle of someone else's storyline is what people want to see. Bryan was planned and built to, as much as they plan or build anything, when he won the title at Summerslam. Then they completely shat all over it and really damaged goodwill. You like the 80s I think, I love the 80s. I wouldn't blame crowds in 1984 for chanting Hogan if he got screwed out of the title and was shunted to the midcard against Adrian Adonis and the main event scene was all about Backlund and Iron Sheik as if the Hogan stuff had never happened.
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BigWill
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Post by BigWill on Dec 15, 2013 19:06:18 GMT -5
I think more so than Cena/Orton being stale, is that their past feuds just weren't all that great. At least not great enough to warrant repeating it. I mean, Cena/Punk has happened quite a lot in the past few years, but if the WWE decided to renew their feud again sometime next year, the crowds would be fine with it.
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Post by celticjobber on Dec 15, 2013 19:08:39 GMT -5
They're in Houston, so I'm not sure.
If TLC was in Chicago, NYC, Toronto, or somewhere else with a high percentage of smarks then they definitely would crap all over it.
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