ratetankmark
Samurai Cop
Equalist Lex Luthor
RIP Rik Mayall, you blimmen genius - Ria Vandervis on Rik Mayall
Posts: 2,426
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Post by ratetankmark on Dec 21, 2013 9:11:55 GMT -5
It seems like wrestlers, no matter how bad the originally seemed can go to Japan, spend a few years, or in some cases a few months there, and in that time they'll improve to no-end, look at Giant Bernard, he was seen as just another generic monster in his first WWE runs as Albert and A-Train, then he went to Japan, improved massively and became one of the best gajins they've had there, hell he and Karl Anderson were the first tag team to hold New Japan's IWGP Tag Team Championships and NOAHS GHC Tag Team Championships at the same time, so that shows that he's obvious improved, the same can be said for Anderson.
So it seems that if you're a wrestler who isn't getting such positive reviews for your matches, get yourself over to Japan and spend a few years there.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 21, 2013 9:26:06 GMT -5
Not true. Giant Albert was good before he went to Japan but people didn't recognize it because he was written off as an untalented hoss. Japan just let him wrestle without that stigma placed on him. Karl Anderson was already good if you watched PWG before he went there. The thing is people hold the belief that your workrate magically increased from working in the mystical Orient and anyone from there is a demigod in the ring. Matt Morgan wrestled in Japan for a while and his wrestling didn't get better. So did Rhaka Khan. Not to say some folks don't get better wrestling in Japan. But the idea they create superior wrestlers is fundamentally flawed.
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Bad Moon
Unicron
for reasons known only to the goblins that live in my brain
Posts: 3,091 
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Post by Bad Moon on Dec 21, 2013 9:38:27 GMT -5
I don't think that's a quality unique to Japan, I just think that if a wrestler goes to a new promotion or region that works a very different style from the one he's used to and forces him to switch up his own style, he's also forced to think about the differences between the two, what stuff works for him and what doesn't, as well as discovering new strengths.
Lance Storm once said that he learned just as much from his time in Smokey Mountain as he did in Mexico, Japan and ECW. When wrestlers learn many different styles they just naturally grow into better performers just from the act of self-discovery that comes with it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2013 10:44:27 GMT -5
One big advantage Japan does have, compared to the indys at least, is that it gives guys a chance to wrestle 4 or 5 times per week. It's not so such much about Japan being a work-rate haven, it's just one of the few places guys can get a lot of ring time.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Dec 21, 2013 11:59:32 GMT -5
One big advantage Japan does have, compared to the indys at least, is that it gives guys a chance to wrestle 4 or 5 times per week. It's not so such much about Japan being a work-rate haven, it's just one of the few places guys can get a lot of ring time. This. If they bring a guy over to Japan, they are bringing him over for a specific length of time and they are going to use him as much as possible during that time. It's sort of like the territory days -- if Smokey Mountain or WCCW or Memphis or wherever brought you in, they brought you in to use you. So you were going to get a lot of work. That's different than being on a roster of a bigger fed (WWE, TNA, even ROH now) where there are TV time constraints that may limit your in-ring exposure if you're not in a favorable roster spot and only work a house show a week, or aren't even on a particular live tour. |
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TGM
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,073
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Post by TGM on Dec 21, 2013 13:04:21 GMT -5
Not true. Giant Albert was good before he went to Japan but people didn't recognize it because he was written off as an untalented hoss. Japan just let him wrestle without that stigma placed on him. Karl Anderson was already good if you watched PWG before he went there. The thing is people hold the belief that your workrate magically increased from working in the mystical Orient and anyone from there is a demigod in the ring. Matt Morgan wrestled in Japan for a while and his wrestling didn't get better. So did Rhaka Khan. Not to say some folks don't get better wrestling in Japan. But the idea they create superior wrestlers is fundamentally flawed. This is so so true, particularlly the Albert stuff. Although, I do think Japan helped Umaga very much. |
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Post by Joe Neglia on Dec 21, 2013 16:25:24 GMT -5
Khali spent time in Japan. Your argument is null and void.
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Post by Digital Witness on Dec 21, 2013 16:26:25 GMT -5
Khali spent time in Japan. Your argument is null and void. Exception to the rule? |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2013 1:03:37 GMT -5
What's always been funny to me about the assumption that american wrestlers will get better by going to Japan is how much a lot of puro companies seem to think the exact opposite. Look how many guys have gotten the relaunch or a bigger push after a "learning excursion" to Mexico or the States. Pretty much everybody who's anybody in modern puro.
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Post by Digital Witness on Dec 22, 2013 1:38:56 GMT -5
What's always been funny to me about the assumption that american wrestlers will get better by going to Japan is how much a lot of puro companies seem to think the exact opposite. Look how many guys have gotten the relaunch or a bigger push after a "learning excursion" to Mexico or the States. Pretty much everybody who's anybody in modern puro. Japanese promotions tend to value wrestlers that have learned different styles of wrestling, while American companies don't really seem to care too much so long as they have a token lucha guy. |
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Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 22, 2013 2:01:44 GMT -5
What's always been funny to me about the assumption that american wrestlers will get better by going to Japan is how much a lot of puro companies seem to think the exact opposite. Look how many guys have gotten the relaunch or a bigger push after a "learning excursion" to Mexico or the States. Pretty much everybody who's anybody in modern puro. Japanese promotions tend to value wrestlers that have learned different styles of wrestling, while American companies don't really seem to care too much so long as they have a token lucha guy. American promotions value wrestlers who have experience in wrestling different types of styles. A number of the bigger names in the indies and the Bigs wrestled in at least 2 or more countries. Punk wrestled in Europe. Bryan did Japan, Europe, and Canada. Cesaro worked Japan and Europe. ROH has no problem if one of their guys take an international booking because the experience helps them grow as a wrestler. Hunico aka Nuevo Sin Cara wrestled in Mexico before getting regular gigs in the US. So WWE does like wrestlers with international experience. Japanese promotions sends their young boys on extended overseas training trips as part of tradition. WWE just hire trainers who worked all over so their guys can get the knowledge without having to make the trips. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2013 3:36:53 GMT -5
What's always been funny to me about the assumption that american wrestlers will get better by going to Japan is how much a lot of puro companies seem to think the exact opposite. Look how many guys have gotten the relaunch or a bigger push after a "learning excursion" to Mexico or the States. Pretty much everybody who's anybody in modern puro. Japanese promotions tend to value wrestlers that have learned different styles of wrestling, while American companies don't really seem to care too much so long as they have a token lucha guy. How do you figure? WWE's roster has power guys like Langston, Henry and Ryback. It's got slow, plodding technicians like Orton. It's got fast paced martial arts inspired dude's like Bryan/Punk. Flyers like the Uso's/Rey/Sin Cara. I could go on. It's not 2003 anymore, the WWE roster has a huge amount of variety. |
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Chip
Hank Scorpio
Slam Jam Death.
Posts: 5,185
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Post by Chip on Dec 22, 2013 3:39:04 GMT -5
I get what you mean, you just used some pretty bad examples in Tensai and Anderson.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Dec 22, 2013 6:42:36 GMT -5
Khali spent time in Japan. Your argument is null and void. What did his work look like before that? It could be even more compelling evidence his assertion is correct. Didn't he kill a guy in training? So, he's gotten better in that respect anyway. |
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Dec 22, 2013 9:15:16 GMT -5
Khali spent time in Japan. Your argument is null and void. What did his work look like before that? It could be even more compelling evidence his assertion is correct. Didn't he kill a guy in training? So, he's gotten better in that respect anyway. the guy died because he was already injured and because he botched not Khali z9.invisionfree.com/WWE_For_Extreme/ar/t6237.htm |
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SOR
Unicron
Posts: 2,611
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Post by SOR on Dec 22, 2013 12:05:53 GMT -5
To be honest it's just internet fans being a mark for puro and thinking these guys come back better. Albert isn't that much better than back in the early 2000's or whatever people just think he is (And mark for him) because he wrestled in a smark favourite company for years.
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Dec 22, 2013 12:13:48 GMT -5
Ted DiBiase Jr went to Japan, and he wasn't all that great. Although, he did have a pretty sweet Million Dollar Legsweep floated over into a Million Dollar Camel Clutch.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 22, 2013 12:14:00 GMT -5
Khali spent time in Japan. Your argument is null and void. To be fair, Khali's always been pretty naturally immobile. I've never liked lumping him amongst other guys that get branded as "untalented", it seems like he does all that he can out there despite his awkward size and slowness. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2013 12:15:00 GMT -5
To be honest it's just internet fans being a mark for puro and thinking these guys come back better. Albert isn't that much better than back in the early 2000's or whatever people just think he is (And mark for him) because he wrestled in a smark favourite company for years. Pretty much this, there is still something of a perception that Japan is a mythical land of amazing wrestlers and if a guy goes over there and gets a push, which often results due to him being big and foreign, then a lot of fans suddenly think that he's a lot better when he's basically the same as when he went over there. That perception of Japan needs to disappear as Japan has some great wrestlers, but so does America. America has some not so great wrestlers, but so does Japan. |
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