Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,511
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Dec 31, 2013 15:52:59 GMT -5
There's a few people spinning the scenario thing now, saying "this is the best thing for Bryan". Which I find amusing as well. Their reasoning being that we've seen Orton vs. Bryan already, so there's no point to see it again. So having an angle where he tricks some guys and overcomes the Authority at least gives him a sense of closure. Well, that still doesn't excuse the fact that they've done nothing but fail since Summerslam. Period. THAT WAS THE PROBLEM FROM THE BEGINNING. You guys truly feed into what WWE gives you, and that's the problem. You fail to see their mistakes, or you overlook them. Summerslam: "Well, they're setting up a feud with Orton because having Bryan hold the title now doesn't make sense, plus Cena is out" or "They're holding off on a major Bryan victory so that they can do it at Mania." Night of Champions: "See! Bryan won the title again. Everything worked out just fine." Battleground: "Well obviously, the Authority aren't going to allow Bryan to be champion, so it makes sense to have him chase for a while before getting a big victory." Hell in a Cell: "Dude, Bryan just got screwed over by his mentor! It's not like Orton beat him clean as a sheet. This also opens up the possibility for Michaels to come out of retirement." Survivor Series: "Come on...do you really think that they can keep Bryan in the main event from now until Mania? He's still on TV! Having him feud with the undercard till then is fine." TLC: "Obviously his program with the Wyatts is going to continue. They can't wrap everything up in one month, plus we have a ways until Mania." Last Raw: "Obviously he's tricking them and it's going to lead to him destroying them from within." All you did was spin the scenario until it fit your vision. And in the process, you lost track of the end game. You guys do a better job than the WWE announcers when it comes to making chicken salad out of chicken shit. Despite the fact that WWE obviously failed, all you did was make excuses for everything that was happening and continued to move forward. And it doesn't matter how many times WWE fails to deliver, you'll continue to make excuses, because wrestling doesn't really have a "true" end game unless the wrestler retired. Hey, Bryan doesn't win the title at Mania? Oh, that's because THIS happened and THAT happened and they have to wait until after Mania etc. etc. And there's winning with you guys because you'll always use the unknown future to your discretion and your false hope of the Promised Land. It's nice that you find enjoyment in the product, but criticizing anyone who disagrees or is doubtful of things is beyond absurd. I'm not saying I'm a better fan or anything, but I've seen enough wrestling disasters to go on hazard mode the very SECOND things don't feel right. And right now...I sense an epic ball drop. I generally dig you and you're usually pretty well thought out in your takes on stuff. That said, kinda seems like you're attacking/talking down to anyone who doesn't share your opinion. Don't get me wrong, I don't entirely disagree with you, but you could probably word things a bit better.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Dec 31, 2013 15:58:23 GMT -5
Please no one take this the wrong way... I speak of the IWC in generalI absolutely hate the IWC... Seriously what happened to being bamboozled? Being kayfabed? Apparently with this job of complete whackadoos, you can't be... I for one loved the Daniel Bryan and The wyatt's match / segment... So what is the point of being a fan of wrestling, smart or not, if you can't just have fun... In other words IWC stop taking yourselves so dadgum seriously... They all say the same things... Dear God nothing gets a chance with these guys.. Your'e danged if you do danged if you don't.. It's a total catch 22 for any wrestler to make these people happy.. Have a phenomenal match? Hey guess what? The IWC will still hate you... Involved in a terrific angle where you headline the last Raw of 2013? They will start moaning and crying about how d bry is losing momentum... It drives me literally insane! No wonder Vince and company totally gave up on the IWC.. If i had someone that i couldn't seem to keep happy I would lay up a huge middle finger too... Then they moan and complain some more that so and so's not being booked properly.. Which in itself may be true... But as i see it almost everyone on the rosters, according to the IWC, is not being booked properly... Here's a brilliant idea sit down and watch a match and don't critique it.. Get involved in the fun, stop being so gosh durn serious and lighten up! Nothing can be as bad as ya'll make it out to be... So just stop it already... I have been watching wrestling and have been a fan for 28 years... It wasn't until i lightened up after being "smartened" up a bit... That i actually started having fun again... This doesn't mean that you cannot have your own opinions and have smart talk... I am just saying stop being so high and mighty ,and actually enjoy something that has brought me a heck of a whole lot of fun ... And some memories i will never ever forget... Thanks for reading my little rant, David Allen Revelle A couple points; 1. There's nothing wrong with having fun with wrestling. There IS something wrong when you're told to not take things seriously and enjoy things for what they are. Sorry, I don't "just enjoy things". Enjoyment is earned, not given. If I'm on a carousel with the intent of being entertained, and I get sick...I guess it's my fault for not grinning enough. 2. This falls in line with the first point. It's nice that you enjoyed it...good for you. Try not to "hate" those who didn't like it. 3. To hate the IWC and be a part of it is ridiculous. What exactly are we supposed to do here if we can't express our feelings, have conversations, and praise or criticize the product? I find it VERY hypocritical to show your dismay for us, when you're basically saying we shouldn't show our dismay towards wrestling. And no offense, if it's THAT much of an issue to you...maybe you shouldn't be here.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Dec 31, 2013 16:03:44 GMT -5
I generally dig you and you're usually pretty well thought out in your takes on stuff. That said, kinda seems like you're attacking/talking down to anyone who doesn't share your opinion. Don't get me wrong, I don't entirely disagree with you, but you could probably word things a bit better. I wrote it very quickly without planning it out better. Sometimes I write better without over analyzing, other times I don't. I agree it wasn't the best way I could phrase things. But what I was essentially saying is, there are a lot of people who compromise everything to give themselves a sense that things will be okay. It's like going on a trip without planning anything out. You may eventually get there, but the path taken put you through so much pain and trouble that the end of everything doesn't seem worth it, yet you still put on a happy face. I'd say in the case of anyone who has problems with the storyline right now, and I do speak for myself... I'll completely and totally admit I was wrong about what happened if they do somehow salvage everything and make for intriguing television. This doesn't just mean giving Bryan the strap, but it means the path getting there was worth traveling. Right now, it doesn't seem that way. I think the opposition a lot of times are so intent on being right, that they'll just always push forward no matter what. Not everyone, but there's a select few who will defend things no matter how awful they become.
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Post by angryfan on Dec 31, 2013 16:06:13 GMT -5
I speak to no one in particular, but just my first time in the thread so saying all official-like, careful with generalizations, they can snowball in a damn hurry.
Thank you.
My issue with the Wyatts and Bryan is it feels exactly like the Dudleys and RTC. A turn that was done just for the "gotcha" spot. Instant comuppence. It "elevates" Bray, but then the Dudleys/RTC should have elevated Stevie and...well it didn't.
And yes, I would easily compare Stevie to Bray, when Stevie is far better and more marketable since he could be the underdog or make you want him dead. Bray can be creepy, period.
I don't think D-Bry is turning heel off of this, but it does worry me. It worries me because it could lead to "Wow, Daniel Bryan overcomes the odds and gets his revenge against the Wyatt family" when his problem was with Triple H to begin with.
I just see it as a misdirection "Go ahead and cheer him, a heel can get beaten up but it damn sure won't be the Cerebral Game of Kings".
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,511
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Dec 31, 2013 16:09:58 GMT -5
I generally dig you and you're usually pretty well thought out in your takes on stuff. That said, kinda seems like you're attacking/talking down to anyone who doesn't share your opinion. Don't get me wrong, I don't entirely disagree with you, but you could probably word things a bit better. I wrote it very quickly without planning it out better. Sometimes I write better without over analyzing, other times I don't. I agree it wasn't the best way I could phrase things. But what I was essentially saying is, there are a lot of people who compromise everything to give themselves a sense that things will be okay. It's like going on a trip without planning anything out. You may eventually get there, but the path taken put you through so much pain and trouble that the end of everything doesn't seem worth it, yet you still put on a happy face. I'd say in the case of anyone who has problems with the storyline right now, and I do speak for myself... I'll completely and totally admit I was wrong about what happened if they do somehow salvage everything and make for intriguing television. This doesn't just mean giving Bryan the strap, but it means the path getting there was worth traveling. Right now, it doesn't seem that way. I think the opposition a lot of times are so intent on being right, that they'll just always push forward no matter what. Not everyone, but there's a select few who will defend things no matter how awful they become. You raise some very fair points, and I do agree with you to an extent. I see both sides of the 'wait and see' argument. I'm willing to give this one a few weeks to play out before I judge it for what it is
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Dec 31, 2013 16:10:13 GMT -5
Or, he overcomes the Wyatts, then focuses on HHH and pals after, when his feud was done. Like how Cena had "distraction" feuds before WrestleMania, whether they be against Kane or The Shield or whatever.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Dec 31, 2013 16:19:46 GMT -5
I generally dig you and you're usually pretty well thought out in your takes on stuff. That said, kinda seems like you're attacking/talking down to anyone who doesn't share your opinion. Don't get me wrong, I don't entirely disagree with you, but you could probably word things a bit better. I wrote it very quickly without planning it out better. Sometimes I write better without over analyzing, other times I don't. I agree it wasn't the best way I could phrase things. But what I was essentially saying is, there are a lot of people who compromise everything to give themselves a sense that things will be okay. It's like going on a trip without planning anything out. You may eventually get there, but the path taken put you through so much pain and trouble that the end of everything doesn't seem worth it, yet you still put on a happy face. it's not compromise when you don't have any strong feelings either way. For me personally, the two most important things are people hitting each other and the bad guys get more beat up than the good guys. I think in Bryan has looked tougher than anyone the Authority has thrown at him so far, which is why they Authority has had to resort to dirty tricks and numbers games to win
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 31, 2013 16:19:46 GMT -5
Or, he overcomes the Wyatts, then focuses on HHH and pals after, when his feud was done. Like how Cena had "distraction" feuds before WrestleMania, whether they be against Kane or The Shield or whatever. Cena HAD to have distraction feuds because he was working with a part timer at WrestleMania. Bryan should still be interacting with the Authority, but he isn't. The Wyatts aren't really working for the Authority (they shouldn't be) and having them turn face as a foil to the Shield makes no sense when the Shield don't seem to be interacting with the Authority either. If WWE wants to use Bryan to elevate heels, he should be feuding with HHH's hand picked opponents. Not tossed to the side in a program that seemingly has nothing to do with anything.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Dec 31, 2013 16:23:30 GMT -5
Or, he overcomes the Wyatts, then focuses on HHH and pals after, when his feud was done. Like how Cena had "distraction" feuds before WrestleMania, whether they be against Kane or The Shield or whatever. Cena HAD to have distraction feuds because he was working with a part timer at WrestleMania. Bryan should still be interacting with the Authority, but he isn't. The Wyatts aren't really working for the Authority (they shouldn't be) and having them turn face as a foil to the Shield makes no sense when the Shield don't seem to be interacting with the Authority either. If WWE wants to use Bryan to elevate heels, he should be feuding with HHH's hand picked opponents. Not tossed to the side in a program that seemingly has nothing to do with anything. the Authority isn't the Corporation. All they are are Triple H and Steph and Trips is a part timer right now. Orton and the Shield aren't even members they're just who the Authority favors. And they're also who Bryan had been working with until recently.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 31, 2013 16:26:01 GMT -5
I wrote it very quickly without planning it out better. Sometimes I write better without over analyzing, other times I don't. I agree it wasn't the best way I could phrase things. But what I was essentially saying is, there are a lot of people who compromise everything to give themselves a sense that things will be okay. It's like going on a trip without planning anything out. You may eventually get there, but the path taken put you through so much pain and trouble that the end of everything doesn't seem worth it, yet you still put on a happy face. it's not compromise when you don't have any strong feelings either way. For me personally, the two most important things are people hitting each other and the bad guys get more beat up than the good guys. I think in Bryan has looked tougher than anyone the Authority has thrown at him so far, which is why they Authority has had to resort to dirty tricks and numbers games to win What matters is that they won. Heroes should always face bigger odds, but they should ultimately overcome. WWE management mentality has the heel establishment prevailing and crucially, being proven correct in their assertions, which is contrary to all booking logic and wrestling storytelling, and it's a piss poor way of elevating talent.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 31, 2013 16:29:11 GMT -5
Cena HAD to have distraction feuds because he was working with a part timer at WrestleMania. Bryan should still be interacting with the Authority, but he isn't. The Wyatts aren't really working for the Authority (they shouldn't be) and having them turn face as a foil to the Shield makes no sense when the Shield don't seem to be interacting with the Authority either. If WWE wants to use Bryan to elevate heels, he should be feuding with HHH's hand picked opponents. Not tossed to the side in a program that seemingly has nothing to do with anything. the Authority isn't the Corporation. All they are are Triple H and Steph and Trips is a part timer right now. Orton and the Shield aren't even members they're just who the Authority favors. And they're also who Bryan had been working with until recently. "The Authority" is just another name for "The Corporation" Two of the highest level kayfabe management characters. Daniel Bryan mowing down the stooges and mooks before eventually reaching the handpicked champion, then the establishment leader, and defeating them both, was the logical progression of the story, and it's one WWE ignored in favour of the mess they've booked instead.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Dec 31, 2013 16:33:20 GMT -5
it's not compromise when you don't have any strong feelings either way. For me personally, the two most important things are people hitting each other and the bad guys get more beat up than the good guys. I think in Bryan has looked tougher than anyone the Authority has thrown at him so far, which is why they Authority has had to resort to dirty tricks and numbers games to win If you don't have feelings one way or the other, then it's apathy. You don't have to compromise anything because you're already okay with how WWE does things, or you don't care what they do. It's good that you like what you like. I like a nice structured story. One that doesn't need a bunch of bullshit or filler to get things done. With the Bryan situation, they should have either waited on holding off a title win, or give him a nice little run, only to step up at some point and screw him over. It would essentially be a rehash of Lesnar going into WM19. You don't have to belittle the guy or screw him a thousand times before hand. Just simply screw him once, and say no rematch. How hard is that? Distract the Authority with something else that will keep the main event void of screwy finishes. It's not complicated. It doesn't need to be so f***ing disorganized, especially given everything that has happened. In my honest opinion, WWE failed here. This isn't some Bryan mark talking. This is a fan of well plotted wrestling, something we almost never get anymore, unless it's with people who have done the same thing a thousand times. If it was Brodus Clay in the same scenario, I would echo exactly what I just wrote. Poor storytelling is poor storytelling, no matter how great the physical wrestling might be, and trust me, 2013 had some of the best wrestling I have seen in quite some time. It's too bad the story driving it was pure shit. Thanks Vince.
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Post by SenorCrest on Dec 31, 2013 16:46:48 GMT -5
I don't know if this was mention before but I got tired of reading after the 4th page. I got excited for this storyline the moment Bray Wyatt said that with the help of Bryan they can bring the machine to its knees. Can you imagine these four guys just trying to take down The Authority? Just look at the state The Authority is in right now: The shield has friction with one another and are busy with CM Punk which means that the only line of defense is Kane. Kane and the Wyatt Family (Bryan included) have history together. The Authority look pretty vulnerable right now. Another key note is that HHH brought back Lesnar which might be a way of having Lesnar on HHH's side via Heyman. I know I am giving WWE too much credit here but hot f***ing damn imagine the clash between The Wyatt Family, Bryan, Punk and Kane, Lesnar and The Shield.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 16:56:06 GMT -5
After having a day to digest it, I'm digging it more and more. I realised I'm letting something I want that may or may not happen in the future effect my enjoyment of a current storyline. They are doing something different with Bryan that we don't see too often, he isn't shrugging off being screwed, he's not making jokes about his opponent knowing he'll get another title shot, he's not spitting in the face of danger, he's human and he has his limits. I'm interested in seeing how they get to the pay-off and what this does for both parties. I'm in the same boat with you. At first I was annoyed that Bryan has been fed to the Wyatts lately, but after thinking over last night's ending, it has now perked my intrigue that Bryan just gave in to the ominous trio. It could lead to some interesting exposition as to why Bryan has given up after months of fighting his way to the top. I just hope the quality of this angle doesn't decline and leads to a payoff where Bryan finally triumphs over The Authority/Wyatts. It's a conjecture but I'm digging this story now.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 17:00:29 GMT -5
The Wyatt family are going to use DB to take over the WWE literally making WWE look like a hip lot version of Arkham Asylum. I won't settle for anything less
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 31, 2013 17:02:06 GMT -5
If they had to bring the Wyatts into it, they should have had Daniel Bryan taking his beating and then saying "you know what, I've had enough of this bullshit, if the Authority want to play things this way, then I will too" and have the Wyatts and Bryan as some sort of anarchist, anti-establishment force that would cause problems all throughout WWE and disrupt the entire company until HHH and Stephanie were removed. It would also be a logical development for Bray, that after months of spouting gibberish bollocks, it turns out that the machine he wanted to bring down was the corrupt and stale WWE corporate system. It would portray the Wyatts as faces and unlikely heroes.
Having sad sack Daniel Bryan give up and accept Bray as his master is the wrong way to do it.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Dec 31, 2013 17:59:10 GMT -5
the Authority isn't the Corporation. All they are are Triple H and Steph and Trips is a part timer right now. Orton and the Shield aren't even members they're just who the Authority favors. And they're also who Bryan had been working with until recently. "The Authority" is just another name for "The Corporation" Two of the highest level kayfabe management characters. Daniel Bryan mowing down the stooges and mooks before eventually reaching the handpicked champion, then the establishment leader, and defeating them both, was the logical progression of the story, and it's one WWE ignored in favour of the mess they've booked instead. except the Corporation actually recruited members, booted members out, they favored people The Authority hasn't tried to get the tag titles out of the hands of the Rhodes, they were just initially upset they fell into their hands. The one guy who joined, Kane, actually offered himself up.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Dec 31, 2013 18:02:09 GMT -5
it's not compromise when you don't have any strong feelings either way. For me personally, the two most important things are people hitting each other and the bad guys get more beat up than the good guys. I think in Bryan has looked tougher than anyone the Authority has thrown at him so far, which is why they Authority has had to resort to dirty tricks and numbers games to win If you don't have feelings one way or the other, then it's apathy. You don't have to compromise anything because you're already okay with how WWE does things, or you don't care what they do. It's good that you like what you like. I like a nice structured story. One that doesn't need a bunch of bullshit or filler to get things done. With the Bryan situation, they should have either waited on holding off a title win, or give him a nice little run, only to step up at some point and screw him over. It would essentially be a rehash of Lesnar going into WM19. You don't have to belittle the guy or screw him a thousand times before hand. Just simply screw him once, and say no rematch. How hard is that? Distract the Authority with something else that will keep the main event void of screwy finishes. It's not complicated. It doesn't need to be so f***ing disorganized, especially given everything that has happened. In my honest opinion, WWE failed here. This isn't some Bryan mark talking. This is a fan of well plotted wrestling, something we almost never get anymore, unless it's with people who have done the same thing a thousand times. If it was Brodus Clay in the same scenario, I would echo exactly what I just wrote. Poor storytelling is poor storytelling, no matter how great the physical wrestling might be, and trust me, 2013 had some of the best wrestling I have seen in quite some time. It's too bad the story driving it was pure shit. Thanks Vince. the champ was injured. They couldn't hold off on the storyline.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 31, 2013 18:02:52 GMT -5
"The Authority" is just another name for "The Corporation" Two of the highest level kayfabe management characters. Daniel Bryan mowing down the stooges and mooks before eventually reaching the handpicked champion, then the establishment leader, and defeating them both, was the logical progression of the story, and it's one WWE ignored in favour of the mess they've booked instead. except the Corporation actually recruited members, booted members out, they favored people The Authority hasn't tried to get the tag titles out of the hands of the Rhodes, they were just initially upset they fell into their hands. The one guy who joined, Kane, actually offered himself up. It makes no difference. It's the same basic concept. Evil authority figures with supporters.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Dec 31, 2013 18:23:04 GMT -5
the champ was injured. They couldn't hold off on the storyline. That's such an inexcusable argument.
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