Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 10,990
|
Post by Sparkybob on Jan 1, 2014 19:13:24 GMT -5
Biggio (3000 hits, solid stats) Glavine (300 wins, 5 20+ wins seasons) Maddux (300 wins, 17 straight 15+ wins seasons) Mussina (270 wins, good win pct., good ERA for AL standards) I didn't add anyone else because of PED issues. Just not sure on Thomas and Bagwell. Definitely no on McGwire and Bonds. There's nothing to go on for Thomas and Bagwell, other than "they're big." The only thing with Piazza is that he has back acne, which could easily be a genetic thing and is not an explanation for some hormone being taken. Taking guys off for these dumb sleights make absolutely no sense, I'm sorry. And I don't understand leaving arguably the best pitcher and best hitter of all time, either, especially since people have been injecting crap into their bodies since the dawn of time for baseball. There is as much evidence that one of those guys is a pedophile that of them taking steroids yet no writer/voter accuses players of that because they have no proof.
|
|
|
Post by angryfan on Jan 1, 2014 20:28:03 GMT -5
Tough for me to narrow it down. I left off the confirmed users or the guys with the sudden spike in otherworldly numbers after age 37, and I still got 10.
Maddux Glavine Moose (I know, no 300 wins, but dude was a beast for a very long time) Walker (Coors field be damned, I won't penalize someone for their team's ballpark. Plus, his arm in the outfield was Clemente levels of scary) Biggio (3K hits, 668 doubles, almost 300 homers, all star at 3 positions) Bagwell (classic power/average guy, far better defensively than he gets credit for, and yeah he stopped producing in his late 30's but so what, if he hadn't it'd be used as ammo against him, and since he did, it's used as ammo against him?) Piazza (offensively he's the spawn of Bench and Cochrane, high average and a shit ton of power, alleged zits don't disqualify him from the hall) Big Hurt (monster at the plate, loved him and hated him when he faced my team, I knew he'd kill us but it was fun watching him do what he did) Edgar (the finess to Thomas' brute force. An artist with a bat) Trammell (if Larkin is in, Trammell is in, and both belong there)
|
|
Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
Posts: 58,479
|
Post by Crappler El 0 M on Jan 1, 2014 20:49:36 GMT -5
I only chose 8. I strongly considered Schilling, but left him off.
Barry Bonds Roger Clemens Tom Glavine Greg Maddux Mark McGwire Mike Piazza Sammy Sosa Frank Thomas
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2014 20:53:40 GMT -5
Lee Smith should be in IMO.
The hell is Nomo doing on the list? He was a solid pitcher for a while but he's not HOF worthy IMO.
|
|
|
Post by The Masked Heel WAS WRONG on Jan 1, 2014 20:58:33 GMT -5
Craig Biggio Roger Clemens Tom Glavine Jeff Kent Greg Maddux Fred McGriff Mike Piazza Curt Schilling Lee Smith Frank Thomas
|
|
BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 16,945
|
Post by BRV on Jan 1, 2014 21:13:40 GMT -5
Here is my ten and the reasoning behind each selection:
- Jeff Bagwell: Career .297/.408/.540 line with 449 career home runs, one of the most dominant power hitters of his era, and a surprisingly stout defensive first baseman through the first half of his career. I can't understand all of this PED talk, because unlike alleged PED users, his career fell off a cliff when he hit his late 30s, as opposed to finding new life.
- Craig Biggio: A dynamic, Gold Glove-caliber second baseman who displayed remarkable consistency. His 3,060 hits may have been accrued over a 20-year career, but 3,000 hits, whether in 20 seasons or two seasons, warrants being inducted to Cooperstown.
- Barry Bonds: You want to put it on his plaque that he was a PED guy? Be my guest. Babe Ruth didn't have to play against players of color. Hank Aaron hit his 755 home runs in an era when amphetamines were passed around like chewable vitamins. If you look hard enough, I'm sure you could find something to accuse every baseball player ever. But don't ignore the 494 home runs, 471 stolen bases, three MVP awards and nine All-Star appearances that he achieved before his alleged steroid use began. Also, he's baseball's all-time home run king. In an era when almost everybody was cheating, he was still the most feared hitter in the game.
- Roger Clemens: Like Bonds, he was a Hall of Famer before the alleged PED use, and like Bonds he deserves enshrinement. One of the most dominant power pitchers ever, plain and simple. And like Bonds, if you want to slap an asterisk on his plaque, feel free.
- Tom Glavine: I know we're firmly entrenched in the "Wins don't matter" era of statistical analysis, but when you collect 305 wins, you're a shoo-in. Also had a sub-3.00 ERA six times in his career.
- Greg Maddux: If Clemens was one of the best power pitchers in the game, Maddux is the consummate precision pitcher. He could hit a thumbtack from 60 feet, 6 inches. A four-time Cy Young winner and the best defensive player ever to toe the rubber, his 355 wins and 3.16 lifetime ERA warrants as close to a unanimous vote as any pitcher ever.
- Mike Mussina: If I were ranking my 10 nominees in order, Mussina would be the 10th and final inductee, barely edging out Curt Schilling. Mussina was excellent for a longer period of time than Schilling, and although he doesn't have Schilling's postseason accolades and doesn't have a single Cy Young on his mantle, he was still one of the best pitchers of his era.
- Mike Piazza: On the Mount Rushmore of the catching position, alongside Carlton Fisk, Johnny Bench and Pudge Rodriguez. A trainwreck defensively, but easily the most dominant offensive catcher of his generation. A lifetime .308 batting average ain't too shabby for a backstop.
- Tim Raines: Played in the era of Rickey Henderson, and was stuck for most of his career in Montreal, but he absolutely deserves to be in Cooperstown. One of the most feared baserunners ever, Raines stole 808 bases in 954 attempts, for an unfathomable stolen base percentage nearing 85 percent. Also one of the best defensive outfielders of his time.
- Frank Thomas: A two-time AL MVP remembered best for his imposing figure and his moon shot home runs, Thomas was more than your run-of-the-mill power hitters. He also displayed incredible patience, leading the league in walks four times, on-base percentage four times.
|
|
RI Richmark
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 21,108
Member is Online
|
Post by RI Richmark on Jan 5, 2014 11:23:12 GMT -5
Bumping up for more votes.
Voting closes on Tuesday
|
|
|
Post by Some Guy on Jan 5, 2014 13:24:32 GMT -5
Lee Smith should be in IMO. The hell is Nomo doing on the list? He was a solid pitcher for a while but he's not HOF worthy IMO. It's more of an all purpose list of who is actually eligible. Also, Nomo is more deserving of Lee Smith for breaking the barrier from Japan to the US, allowing guys like Ichiro, Matsui, Darvish, etc. to all come in from Japan. Lee Smith was just an above average reliever for a while, and he only really had two great seasons. If you can't even claim to have three seasons better than what Rivera averaged as a reliever, you don't really belong in (I don't think Hoffman or Gossage belong in, either).
|
|
Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
|
Post by Reflecto on Jan 5, 2014 13:59:17 GMT -5
I didn't vote for anyone on this ballot, and it is necessary for me to tell everyone about this. No matter how "technically" clean people like Greg Maddux were, we don't KNOW he was clean. We can't KNOW he, or any other player in this era, were completely clean. And even if Greg Maddux never did anything more performance enhancing than pure whole milk, so what? Babe Ruth didn't get into the Hall of Fame with a unanimous vote, so no player should ever ever ever get in unanimously. Maddux, Thomas, Mussina...? If Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens can't get in in their first year on the ballot, then no player in baseball's history can ever belong in the Hall of Fame. (Note: I also didn't vote for Bonds or Clemens- they're PED cheaters.) Can't we just change the HOF voting to the people who truly deserve enshrinement in the Hall of Fame- not these players, but the BBWAA voters who covered these players for years? THEY are the true guardians of the sport, the keepers of baseball's flame- and THEY deserve it more than any player can ever deserve it.
...oh, sorry, someone had to be the designated BBWAA turd in the punchbowl.
Seriously:
Bagwell Bonds Clemens Glavine Maddux McGwire Piazza Schilling Sosa Thomas
|
|
|
Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jan 5, 2014 14:35:20 GMT -5
^---- I actually would not be shocked if a voter had really said that out loud.
|
|
|
Post by ThereIsNoAbsurdistOnlyZuul on Jan 5, 2014 14:42:58 GMT -5
Bonds and Clemens are the 2 greatest players of their era if they are kept out of the Hall then every spitball pitcher or player who used greenies should retroactively be removed. If Gaylord Perry is in then we don't care about whether the player cheats. And if Ty Cobb is in, we don't care whether a player is a unmitigated bastard. However, I don't have to vote for them first ballot. But I feel they should be in.
|
|
RI Richmark
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 21,108
Member is Online
|
Post by RI Richmark on Jan 7, 2014 8:03:59 GMT -5
Voting closes today at 7:00 PM EST.
My Votes: Jeff Bagwell Barry Bonds Roger Clemens Tom Glavine Greg Maddux Edgar Martínez Mike Piazza Curt Schilling Frank Thomas
|
|
h
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,734
|
Post by h on Jan 7, 2014 17:02:43 GMT -5
Ken Gurnick of MLB.com: "As for those who played during the period of PED use, I won't vote for any of them."
He voted for one player, Jack Morris, who pitched during the early period of PED use.
|
|
Waffel113
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Ain't no Rap Mobile with his Waffels
Posts: 19,020
|
Post by Waffel113 on Jan 7, 2014 17:04:36 GMT -5
Alright, t-minus two hours to vote. Here's my ballot.
Jeff Bagwell Craig Biggio Eric Gagne Greg Maddux Edgar Martinez Mark McGwire Mike Piazza Frank Thomas
|
|
Jazzman
King Koopa
Trombone Shorty > Your Favorite Musician
Posts: 11,231
|
Post by Jazzman on Jan 7, 2014 18:12:27 GMT -5
Eight guys for me
Bagwell Biggio Bonds Clemens Glavine Maddux Morris Thomas
|
|
stealthamo
King Koopa
Something stupid
#AJAll
Posts: 11,247
|
Post by stealthamo on Jan 7, 2014 19:17:20 GMT -5
Here are the results compiled (out of 53 voters - bold means in, line through means not eligible next year due to too few votes):
Greg Maddux - 84.91% Frank Thomas - 83.02% ----------------------- Tom Glavine - 73.58% (1 vote short) Craig Biggio - 69.81% (3 votes short) Jeff Bagwell - 64.15% Mike Piazza - 64.15% Curt Schilling - 54.72% Roger Clemens - 41.51% Barry Bonds - 37.74% Edgar Martínez - 32.08% Fred McGriff - 28.30% Tim Raines - 28.30% Mike Mussina - 20.75% Larry Walker - 20.75% Don Mattingly - 18.87% Mark McGwire - 18.87% Alan Trammell - 16.98% Sammy Sosa - 13.21% Rafael Palmeiro - 11.32% Moisés Alou - 9.43% Jack Morris - 9.43% Lee Smith - 9.43% Hideo Nomo - 7.55% Éric Gagné - 5.66% Kenny Rogers - 5.66% Mike Timlin - 5.66% --------------------
Sean Casey - 3.77% Ray Durham - 3.77% Luis Gonzalez - 3.77% Jeff Kent - 3.77% Paul Lo Duca - 3.77% J.T. Snow - 3.77% Armando Benítez - 1.89% Jacque Jones - 1.89% Todd Jones - 1.89% Richie Sexson - 1.89%
|
|
RI Richmark
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 21,108
Member is Online
|
Post by RI Richmark on Jan 7, 2014 20:14:54 GMT -5
Holy Crap! And I thought the BBWAA was tough. They had nothing on the FAN. Just to explain how the voting goes, in order to be inducted a player must appear on at least 75% of the ballots. For this poll it means 75% of the 53 voters must vote for that player, meaning a player needed 40 votes (39.75 to be exact). Under this critera only TWO players recevied enough votes. They are: Greg Maddux had the highest vote total with 45 votes(85%) Frank Thomas was right behind with 44 votes(83%) As for the others, Tom Glavine came oh so close with 39 votes (just .75 votes short) but at 74% it just wasn't enough. The two men who came closest last year, Craig Biggio & Jeff Bagwell finished 4th & 5th with 37 & 34 votes respectively. Mike Piazza tied Bagwell with 34 votes and Curt Schilling. Possible PED use was probably a big factor with many of our voter as you can see by the low vote totals for Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa. Every player on the ballot received at least one vote but any player with less than 5% (2.65 votes) would not be eligible for future ballots. Nor will Jack Morris who was on his 15th and final ballot. Thank you for voting. I have to say I'm stunned by the results. What do you think FAN? EDIT: Thanks to stealthamo for the breakdown.
|
|
Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 10,990
|
Post by Sparkybob on Jan 7, 2014 20:35:19 GMT -5
Wow we suck
|
|
|
Post by Some Guy on Jan 7, 2014 21:10:08 GMT -5
That's pretty damn ridiculous. There's at least 14 guys that should be in off that list.
|
|
stealthamo
King Koopa
Something stupid
#AJAll
Posts: 11,247
|
Post by stealthamo on Jan 7, 2014 23:12:15 GMT -5
I think it's funny that the top 10 guys overall were also the 10 guys that were on my ballot. I would've voted for a few more, but the actual HOF is always going to be stingy on guys who have used steroids...or guys that are thought to have used steroids...or guys who have played with guys who have used steroids...or guys who played when players were using steroids.
...the Baseball HOF voters are stupid.
|
|