Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Jan 30, 2014 21:20:12 GMT -5
But WWE couldn't do that, he was contracted until July. Save gross misconduct they'd have had to pay him until July whether he was on screen or not. If they just said "You know what, we don't want to pay you any more. Bye!", he, and we in that circumstance, would rightly be outraged by that. Did you say it was unacceptable in the context of a contractor and his client, or did you say that it was unacceptable in any walk of life?The whole discussion is about a contractor and his client. I didn't think it necessary to make that distinction.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2014 21:21:32 GMT -5
I don't understand what "waiting for chants to die down" means in this context? Report mentions that CM Punk chants were very loud, and they held off taping for them to die out enough to be drowned out by music/commentary. Triple H: "Let them scream for a couple hours until everyone loses their voice" Kevin Dunn: "But hey we can always work the audio magic like we do it on SmackDown." Vince: "We are still shooting Smackdown? I thought we stopped years ago? I don't remember approving any storylines for Smackdown." Triple H: "Umm yeah we just do random matches and replay segments from Raw" Vince: "Interesting..."
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2014 21:22:40 GMT -5
At-will employment. It's totally acceptable; it's not preferred, but the second my employer decides I'm not working out, I'm gone. The second I decide they're not working out, I can walk away. No financial or moral obligation from either one of us... we're not running a charity here. But WWE couldn't do that, he was contracted until July. Save gross misconduct they'd have had to pay him until July whether he was on screen or not. If they just said "You know what, we don't want to pay you any more. Bye!", he, and we in that circumstance, would rightly be outraged by that. I'm pretty sure "We wish you well in your future endeavors" wouldn't be a thing if WWE couldn't do that.
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Post by The Trashman on Jan 30, 2014 21:23:19 GMT -5
But WWE couldn't do that, he was contracted until July. Save gross misconduct they'd have had to pay him until July whether he was on screen or not. If they just said "You know what, we don't want to pay you any more. Bye!", he, and we in that circumstance, would rightly be outraged by that. Did you say it was unacceptable in the context of a contractor and his client, or did you say that it was unacceptable in any walk of life?Its still pretty unacceptable to just quit on a job or fire people without any cause.
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Post by Some Guy on Jan 30, 2014 21:26:33 GMT -5
Did you say it was unacceptable in the context of a contractor and his client, or did you say that it was unacceptable in any walk of life?Its still pretty unacceptable to just quit on a job or fire people without any cause. But he had a cause. He is beat up and unhappy with the direction of the company.
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Post by Piccolo on Jan 30, 2014 21:27:03 GMT -5
Did you say it was unacceptable in the context of a contractor and his client, or did you say that it was unacceptable in any walk of life?Its still pretty unacceptable to just quit on a job or fire people without any cause. It really isn't. What industry do you work in, just out of curiosity? (Also, Gorilla, you did need to make that distinction due to the sweeping statement you made about any walk of life. You could've left that phrase out of your post, or you could've specified "for a contractor in any walk of life", but the way you wrote it was extremely broad... indeed, it was all-encompassing.)
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Jan 30, 2014 21:27:42 GMT -5
But WWE couldn't do that, he was contracted until July. Save gross misconduct they'd have had to pay him until July whether he was on screen or not. If they just said "You know what, we don't want to pay you any more. Bye!", he, and we in that circumstance, would rightly be outraged by that. I'm pretty sure "We wish you well in your future endeavors" wouldn't be a thing if WWE couldn't do that. Yeah but there's financial consequence to it. They have to pay up their contract, not just say "we don't wish to honour the contract any more". WWE could get rid of anyone whenever they wanted but they're bound to pay the remaining contract up so from their point of view letting someone go carries a financial consequence. Punk may well miss out on the remaining owed on the contract until July but he still walked out with relative impunity, not a notice period or anything else that would be the norm in any employee/employer contractee/contractor relationship.
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Post by The Trashman on Jan 30, 2014 21:29:15 GMT -5
Its still pretty unacceptable to just quit on a job or fire people without any cause. But he had a cause. He is beat up and unhappy with the direction of the company. Well if you worked at Subway and you didnt like that all subs were going to be $5 this month and it was going to be really busy, it still would be pretty unacceptable to just stop going to work. Or for your boss to fire you because he doesnt like the "direction" your life was going as long as it wasnt infringing on work.
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Post by angryfan on Jan 30, 2014 21:31:16 GMT -5
Its still pretty unacceptable to just quit on a job or fire people without any cause. But he had a cause. He is beat up and unhappy with the direction of the company. I have a co-worker who just up and quit. We're in corrections, working the psych ward of a medium security prison. He got hurt on the job, we're short handed, and he's always been one to work long hours. Thing is, with us getting under 2% annual raises the burnout is huge, and so he just said "I'm done, I'm going to do something less hazardous". Professional? Not necessarily, in an ideal world. However, if the reality is "I'm going to leave, but I'll go ahead and take a high chance of getting hurt again in the next few weeks just so you won't call me an asshole later, even though you still could". In Punk's case, it's not a chance of "if" he gets banged up or hurt, it's the fact that he absolutely will wind up hurting more if he "fulfills his obligations" while still realizing that the thing he's said he really wants keeps getting handed off to other people.
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Post by Piccolo on Jan 30, 2014 21:31:59 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure "We wish you well in your future endeavors" wouldn't be a thing if WWE couldn't do that. Yeah but there's financial consequence to it. They have to pay up their contract, not just say "we don't wish to honour the contract any more". WWE could get rid of anyone whenever they wanted but they're bound to pay the remaining contract up so from their point of view letting someone go carries a financial consequence. Punk may well miss out on the remaining owed on the contract until July but he still walked out with relative impunity, not a notice period or anything else that would be the norm in any employee/employer contractee/contractor relationship. Then... isn't that a problem with the contract? I mean, dude, I don't really know what you're advocating here. A stiffer contract from WWE, harsher penalties for leaving? What is the problem you have with the way Vince currently does things? If it works for Vince, who's been doing this for ages, it seems like he's probably satisfied with the contracts he's entering into.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Jan 30, 2014 21:33:09 GMT -5
We need to keep in mind that this is a carny operation in the guise of a legitimate business. I think it's silly to apply standard business etiquette to pro wrestlers.
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Post by Some Guy on Jan 30, 2014 21:33:56 GMT -5
But he had a cause. He is beat up and unhappy with the direction of the company. Well if you worked at Subway and you didnt like that all subs were going to be $5 this month and it was going to be really busy, it still would be pretty unacceptable to just stop going to work. Or for your boss to fire you because he doesnt like the "direction" your life was going as long as it wasnt infringing on work. No it wouldn't. You have every right to leave your job as an employee. Unless people fully rely on you for their well being (which isn't the case here because Punk is well off financially and doesn't have much of a family), it's their right to quit or walk away.
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Post by angryfan on Jan 30, 2014 21:35:28 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure "We wish you well in your future endeavors" wouldn't be a thing if WWE couldn't do that. Yeah but there's financial consequence to it. They have to pay up their contract, not just say "we don't wish to honour the contract any more". WWE could get rid of anyone whenever they wanted but they're bound to pay the remaining contract up so from their point of view letting someone go carries a financial consequence. Punk may well miss out on the remaining owed on the contract until July but he still walked out with relative impunity, not a notice period or anything else that would be the norm in any employee/employer contractee/contractor relationship. When they release a performer, or a performer up and quits, the "no compete" kicks in. Thus, right now they DO have to pay Punk, but if they "fire" him, he gets 90 days pay. Just like when they release some midcarder they owe 90 days pay with the consideration being that they will not appear for another company with a TV show in the interim. They don't have to "honor" more than those 90 days.
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Jan 30, 2014 21:35:52 GMT -5
Its still pretty unacceptable to just quit on a job or fire people without any cause. It really isn't. What industry do you work in, just out of curiosity? Sorry to jump in here, but I'm interested in what industry you work in where it's considered acceptable just to up and quit one day without notice? I'm not mocking you, I'm serious. I work in Education. I've worked in fast food and retail. In all three careers you're pretty much dead to your former employers if you don't give notice. They will refuse to be a reference for future employment and will not rehire you if you want to come back. --And everybody who argues about a "right" to leave. Of course you have a right to quit at any time. That doesn't make the act professional, though.
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Post by Kay Faban on Jan 30, 2014 21:36:08 GMT -5
I have a feeling a lot of people haven't been under contract or had a serious job. That's not meant as an insult, it's just clear i. Their thoughts on leaving Jobs.
WWEs work structure is hard to compare to others though.
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Post by Piccolo on Jan 30, 2014 21:40:08 GMT -5
It really isn't. What industry do you work in, just out of curiosity? Sorry to jump in here, but I'm interested in what industry you work in where it's considered acceptable just to up and quit one day without notice? I'm not mocking you, I'm serious. I work in Education. I've worked in fast food and retail. In all three careers you're pretty much dead to your former employers if you don't give notice. They will refuse to be a reference for future employment. --And everybody who argues about a "right" to leave. Of course you have a right to quit at any time. That doesn't make the act professional, though. I don't think you're mocking me, I just think we all have different work experience; hence, I asked the question in the first place. My industry is biotech. And of course it's polite to give notice, but at-will employment means what it says. They can let you go for no reason, and you can leave for no reason.
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Jan 30, 2014 21:43:10 GMT -5
Sorry to jump in here, but I'm interested in what industry you work in where it's considered acceptable just to up and quit one day without notice? I'm not mocking you, I'm serious. I work in Education. I've worked in fast food and retail. In all three careers you're pretty much dead to your former employers if you don't give notice. They will refuse to be a reference for future employment. --And everybody who argues about a "right" to leave. Of course you have a right to quit at any time. That doesn't make the act professional, though. I don't think you're mocking me, I just think we all have different work experience; hence, I asked the question in the first place. My industry is biotech. And you show up for your job tomorrow, maybe a few minutes early...and say, "I'm going home." and quit. That's just seen as a cool thing by your colleagues or your bosses? This will not negatively impact work or productivity in any way, shape, or form?
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Post by Widow's Peak on Jan 30, 2014 21:44:28 GMT -5
WWE is hardly a regular job. Quitting without notice may screw you over for future employment if you work in education or at Subway. I don't exactly think that Punk will have any problem finding work.
It's not the most professional thing to do in the world, but its a bigger deal in some jobs than in others.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jan 30, 2014 21:44:57 GMT -5
At-will employment. It's totally acceptable; it's not preferred, but the second my employer decides I'm not working out, I'm gone. The second I decide they're not working out, I can walk away. No financial or moral obligation from either one of us... we're not running a charity here. But WWE couldn't do that, he was contracted until July. Save gross misconduct they'd have had to pay him until July whether he was on screen or not. If they just said "You know what, we don't want to pay you any more. Bye!", he, and we in that circumstance, would rightly be outraged by that. WARNING: In the above post I've made a presumption someone would be unhappy with their contract being terminated. See the thing is though that this leads to the headline of: "BREAKING NEWS: WWE Releases CM Punk" Think about what damage THAT would cause
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DMO-
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 658
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Post by DMO- on Jan 30, 2014 21:45:00 GMT -5
I really like CM Punk fan, but am I the only one that's excited he's gone? Just cause of the backlash and more crowd hijackings that are going to happen. I love this shit.
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