Boo!
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Boo! on Jan 30, 2014 22:09:36 GMT -5
I didn't say CM Punk was niche. I said following a show you watch online during the week and entering into forum discussions on that show is stil a niche interest. There are forums discussing all kinds of different shows and sports but the majority of the audience are week-to-weekers. Tune in last week, tune in this week. Without logging on to discuss whether this actress is happy or this plot has been rewritten or this character is leaving etc. Unless you're part of that group the Punk thing will probably be news to you until you hear some kind of explanation on WWE TV. The same discussions that happen on forums like this have started happening between 'week-to-weekers' on sites like twitter, facebook and tumblr. It's a more socially active audience, sure, but I still think people overstate just how much interest is paid to 'news' about the show as opposed to the show itself. We shouldn't transpose our own interest in terms of the 'behind the curtain' area of the industry onto people who just like watching the show. It's not a mystery to all and people will notice he isn't there but I think if you take the 4m or so viewers they have, I'd say probably quite a lot, if not a majority, are fairy unaware of the whole thing. TV show plots, spoilers and departures are revealed in mainstream media all the time yet most people will still be 'shocked' a death or a plot twist. Just because information is out there, even on mainstream sources, doesn't mean it's being accessed. You can find out the plot to any upcoming soap or drama series you care to name yet because a casual audience will take a casual interest in the show,the chances of them seeking out news on Dallas or the Bold and the Beautiful, or whatever, I don't think are great.
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Jan 30, 2014 22:09:48 GMT -5
And you show up for your job tomorrow, maybe a few minutes early...and say, "I'm going home." and quit. That's just seen as a cool thing by your colleagues? This will not negatively impact work or productivity in any way, shape, or form? Is it LESS negatively impactful when the company suddenly lets somebody go? Because the company doesn't give 2 weeks' notice. Well yes, it often is. There's a difference between being an employer and being an employee. An employee works in a position at the pleasure of an employer. In many states, they can be fired at any time for any reason. This is reasonable--though surely abused in some cases like anything else. If somebody is going to fire you, they usually have a replacement in mind to fill your position as quickly as is humanly possible. That may seem cold or uncaring, but it's just business (Why did I type that in HHH's voice?). Essentially you're working a job until your employer no longer requires your services. That's part of the relationship. They don't owe you a job, but as an employee you do owe them quite a bit. They hired you, after all, you didn't hire them. You owe them to work your best and you owe it to them to let them know when you're going to engage in some future endeavors. And it may seem unfair, but they don't owe you a notice. They gave you a job and in doing so it's understood that you're working for them until they're no longer satisfied with the arrangement. You're free to leave for essentially the same reasons, but because they gave you your position and paid you in your position, you owe them reasonable notice if you want to behave professionally. Simply speaking, it's not an equal relationship by its very nature. It's no unacceptable in every situation, as I said earlier...but it's unacceptable in most.
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Jan 30, 2014 22:13:38 GMT -5
Somebody please find more CM Punk news so we don't have to discuss the merits of the standard Employer/Employee relationship and whether or not CM Punk is popular or not. I want to hear stories about him threatening to reveal the Randy Savage secret or something!
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Post by Some Guy on Jan 30, 2014 22:13:53 GMT -5
The same discussions that happen on forums like this have started happening between 'week-to-weekers' on sites like twitter, facebook and tumblr. It's a more socially active audience, sure, but I still think people overstate just how much interest is paid to 'news' about the show as opposed to the show itself. We shouldn't transpose our own interest in terms of the 'behind the curtain' area of the industry onto people who just like watching the show. It's not a mystery to all and people will notice he isn't there but I think if you take the 4m or so viewers they have, I'd say probably quite a lot, if not a majority, are fairy unaware of the whole thing. TV show plots, spoilers and departures are revealed in mainstream media all the time yet most people will still be 'shocked' a death or a plot twist. Just because information is out there, even on mainstream sources, doesn't mean it's being accessed. You can find out the plot to any upcoming soap or drama series you care to name yet because a casual audience will take a casual interest in the show,the chances of them seeking out news on Dallas or the Bold and the Beautiful, or whatever, I don't think are great. Okay, let's just see how they react on Monday. Let's see how you react to the massive CM Punk chants that are absolutely going to happen.
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Post by SenorCrest on Jan 30, 2014 22:14:24 GMT -5
I'm not sure it is. If you're a casual TV viewer who doesn't know who Dave Meltzer or Rajah is - how would you know? It was picked up by TMZ and BBC as well.....both major media outlets. I'm not sure it is. If you're a casual TV viewer who doesn't know who Dave Meltzer or Rajah is - how would you know? WWE audience may be more socially active that that of other shows I'd still guess most of the viewership watches it the way they do other shows and don't seek out news on characters during the week or discussion forums etc. Well, if he doesn't matter and he's niche, then the BBC must be full of a bunch of smarks. Any wrestler who can get mainstream press from an organization that gives zero damns about wrestling unless murder is involved has a media presence. Oh, LA Times covered it as well. When he did Summer of Punk, there was mainstream publicity too. THAT is most likely why Vince is reportedly working to get him back, because you could count on one hand the number of guys who get mainstream pub with fingers left over. I hate to be off topic but when I read BBC for some reason I didn't think news outlet. Damn you internet
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Post by rowdy426 on Jan 30, 2014 22:14:58 GMT -5
My 56 year old mother heard about Punk walking out... she called me the other day to ask about it, knowing I was a fan.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jan 30, 2014 22:21:04 GMT -5
I really like CM Punk fan, but am I the only one that's excited he's gone? Just cause of the backlash and more crowd hijackings that are going to happen. I love this shit. Not excited, but I'm just hoping that it forces WWE's hand in truly pushing Bryan as a top star. And hopefully causes a trickle down effect of people being bumped up to fill spot of the guy directly above them. Also I'd like to see where Punk goes if he decides to continue his wrestling career.
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Jan 30, 2014 22:21:26 GMT -5
It's not news, but...hey, he knows HHH, right? I have faith CM Punk will end up a major part of Mania. WWE is THE Show & Punk is a big enough part of THE Show to be needed for the Mania — Sean Waltman (@therealxpac) January 30, 2014
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Jan 30, 2014 22:22:52 GMT -5
It's not news, but...hey, he knows HHH, right? I have faith CM Punk will end up a major part of Mania. WWE is THE Show & Punk is a big enough part of THE Show to be needed for the Mania — Sean Waltman (@therealxpac) January 30, 2014 I think I just got an association 'high' just reading that
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Post by Piccolo on Jan 30, 2014 22:26:33 GMT -5
Is it LESS negatively impactful when the company suddenly lets somebody go? Because the company doesn't give 2 weeks' notice. Well yes, it often is. There's a difference between being an employer and being an employee. An employee works in a position at the pleasure of an employer. In many states, they can be fired at any time for any reason. This is reasonable--though surely abused in some cases like anything else. If somebody is going to fire you, they usually have a replacement in mind to fill your position as quickly as is humanly possible. That may seem cold or uncaring, but it's just business (Why did I type that in HHH's voice?). Essentially you're working a job until your employer no longer requires your services. That's part of the relationship. They don't owe you a job, but as an employee you do owe them quite a bit. They hired you, after all, you didn't hire them. You owe them to work your best and you owe it to them to let them know when you're going to engage in some future endeavors. And it may seem unfair, but they don't owe you a notice. They gave you a job and in doing so it's understood that you're working for them until they're no longer satisfied with the arrangement. You're free to leave for essentially the same reasons, but because they gave you your position and paid you in your position, you owe them reasonable notice if you want to behave professionally. Simply speaking, it's not an equal relationship by its very nature. It's no unacceptable in every situation, as I said earlier...but it's unacceptable in most. Heh. This is a huuuuuuge philosophical divide, and I don't think we're going to bridge it tonight. If I can sum up my feelings about it: my employers are my customer. I provide them with something they need... due to my education, talent, and work ethic, I do what I do better than most. For what I produce, they are willing to exchange money and benefits. It IS an equal relationship, by its very nature. You use the word "owe" a lot. I owe them what they pay me for. They owe me for what I produce for them. Nothing more is owed; as you say, it's business. There are 2 parties involved, and both make business decisions based on what is best for them. This is veering off-topic, but I have strong feelings about business relationships.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jan 30, 2014 22:30:31 GMT -5
There's no, NO WAY I'm going through all these pages, so I'll stay this.
Punk seems very passionate about wrestling and he's definitely more of an artist, and he's obviously saved his money so that's not a problem.
One issue that peaked my interest was the royalties situation, and it's almost like Punk is standing up as well for the other talent who can't really speak for themselves. It's almost like he's taking the bullet by saying, hey, these guys need the royalties issue addressed. And doing it before Wrestlemania shows it's not about the money.
So I definitely respect Punk. I got back from a vacation, so I don't quite have the f*** you money that I would want to say, "f*** you, I quit", but I will soon, and it will be fun to have that. But yeah, it's always nice to have f*** you money.
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Jan 30, 2014 22:32:43 GMT -5
Well yes, it often is. There's a difference between being an employer and being an employee. An employee works in a position at the pleasure of an employer. In many states, they can be fired at any time for any reason. This is reasonable--though surely abused in some cases like anything else. If somebody is going to fire you, they usually have a replacement in mind to fill your position as quickly as is humanly possible. That may seem cold or uncaring, but it's just business (Why did I type that in HHH's voice?). Essentially you're working a job until your employer no longer requires your services. That's part of the relationship. They don't owe you a job, but as an employee you do owe them quite a bit. They hired you, after all, you didn't hire them. You owe them to work your best and you owe it to them to let them know when you're going to engage in some future endeavors. And it may seem unfair, but they don't owe you a notice. They gave you a job and in doing so it's understood that you're working for them until they're no longer satisfied with the arrangement. You're free to leave for essentially the same reasons, but because they gave you your position and paid you in your position, you owe them reasonable notice if you want to behave professionally. Simply speaking, it's not an equal relationship by its very nature. It's no unacceptable in every situation, as I said earlier...but it's unacceptable in most. Heh. This is a huuuuuuge philosophical divide, and I don't think we're going to bridge it tonight. If I can sum up my feelings about it: my employers are my customer. I provide them with something they need... due to my education, talent, and work ethic, I do what I do better than most. For what I produce, they are willing to exchange money and benefits. It IS an equal relationship, by its very nature. You use the word "owe" a lot. I owe them what they pay me for. They owe me for what I produce for them. Nothing more is owed; as you say, it's business. There are 2 parties involved, and both make business decisions based on what is best for them. This is veering off-topic, but I have strong feelings about business relationships. Yup, we have a basic disagreement on this one. It's really not an equal relationship. The employee owes more to the employer than the employer owes the employee for reasons mentioned above. I'm not advocating Employers treat their employees like dirt, by any means, I'm just saying nobody should be confused about who is the patron in the relationship. So yeah... Basic philosophical divide. I think we should just call it a conversation and take it up in the future when we get a Philosophy and Ethics board.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jan 30, 2014 22:34:33 GMT -5
I really like CM Punk fan, but am I the only one that's excited he's gone? Just cause of the backlash and more crowd hijackings that are going to happen. I love this shit. Not excited, but I'm just hoping that it forces WWE's hand in truly pushing Bryan as a top star. And hopefully causes a trickle down effect of people being bumped up to fill spot of the guy directly above them. Also I'd like to see where Punk goes if he decides to continue his wrestling career. I have the feeling it's going to do exactly the opposite. And I wonder if Punk isn't just being super-petulant about this. So, suddenly, Bryan is about to force the company's hand because the crowds are ready to shove him down Vince and Hunter's throat. Punk acknowledges in the Ariel Helwani interview that Bryan has usurped his (Punk's) place in the pecking order... So, Punk packs his bags, takes his ball, and goes home. Suddenly, the crowd, ever looking to be the rebel, finds Bryan old and busted, because hey, he stuck around. Punk is the new Revolutionary Hotness, now that he's gone, the biggest way to stick it to Vince and Hunter is to chant HIS name instead, try to force the company to acknowledge the guy who isn't there anymore, the crowd showing they have control by making it all about someone who isn't even on the roster. Punk's ego is soothed, but at the expense of Bryan.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Boo! on Jan 30, 2014 22:36:35 GMT -5
Also when it comes to Punk's previous comments about Rock headlining Mania, if he's given the choice will he be happy to return to work (though not headline) the show just for the pay cheque, potentially taking a spot on the card away from someone who would have worked these next two or three months?
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RIHT
Hank Scorpio
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Hey-yo.
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Post by RIHT on Jan 30, 2014 22:38:56 GMT -5
Somebody please find more CM Punk news so we don't have to discuss the merits of the standard Employer/Employee relationship and whether or not CM Punk is popular or not. I want to hear stories about him threatening to reveal the Randy Savage secret or something! If it's anything, technically, he's still signed to WWE right now and hasn't been released from his contract... yet.
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm on Jan 30, 2014 22:39:39 GMT -5
Not excited, but I'm just hoping that it forces WWE's hand in truly pushing Bryan as a top star. And hopefully causes a trickle down effect of people being bumped up to fill spot of the guy directly above them. Also I'd like to see where Punk goes if he decides to continue his wrestling career. I have the feeling it's going to do exactly the opposite. And I wonder if Punk isn't just being super-petulant about this. So, suddenly, Bryan is about to force the company's hand because the crowds are ready to shove him down Vince and Hunter's throat. Punk acknowledges in the Ariel Helwani interview that Bryan has usurped his (Punk's) place in the pecking order... So, Punk packs his bags, takes his ball, and goes home. Suddenly, the crowd, ever looking to be the rebel, finds Bryan old and busted, because hey, he stuck around. Punk is the new Revolutionary Hotness, now that he's gone, the biggest way to stick it to Vince and Hunter is to chant HIS name instead, try to force the company to acknowledge the guy who isn't there anymore, the crowd showing they have control by making it all about someone who isn't even on the roster. Punk's ego is soothed, but at the expense of Bryan. Honestly, this is something I'm genuinely afraid of happening...
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Post by SenorCrest on Jan 30, 2014 22:40:01 GMT -5
Not excited, but I'm just hoping that it forces WWE's hand in truly pushing Bryan as a top star. And hopefully causes a trickle down effect of people being bumped up to fill spot of the guy directly above them. Also I'd like to see where Punk goes if he decides to continue his wrestling career. I have the feeling it's going to do exactly the opposite. And I wonder if Punk isn't just being super-petulant about this. So, suddenly, Bryan is about to force the company's hand because the crowds are ready to shove him down Vince and Hunter's throat. Punk acknowledges in the Ariel Helwani interview that Bryan has usurped his (Punk's) place in the pecking order... So, Punk packs his bags, takes his ball, and goes home. Suddenly, the crowd, ever looking to be the rebel, finds Bryan old and busted, because hey, he stuck around. Punk is the new Revolutionary Hotness, now that he's gone, the biggest way to stick it to Vince and Hunter is to chant HIS name instead, try to force the company to acknowledge the guy who isn't there anymore, the crowd showing they have control by making it all about someone who isn't even on the roster. Punk's ego is soothed, but at the expense of Bryan. Holy shit imagine if this was a work and what you just posted is the narrative. Bryan wins at EC Punk comes back as a heel. Batista gets screwed out of the mania main event for punk Punk vs Bryan at mania for the title.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2014 22:50:47 GMT -5
Not excited, but I'm just hoping that it forces WWE's hand in truly pushing Bryan as a top star. And hopefully causes a trickle down effect of people being bumped up to fill spot of the guy directly above them. Also I'd like to see where Punk goes if he decides to continue his wrestling career. I have the feeling it's going to do exactly the opposite. And I wonder if Punk isn't just being super-petulant about this. So, suddenly, Bryan is about to force the company's hand because the crowds are ready to shove him down Vince and Hunter's throat. Punk acknowledges in the Ariel Helwani interview that Bryan has usurped his (Punk's) place in the pecking order... So, Punk packs his bags, takes his ball, and goes home. Suddenly, the crowd, ever looking to be the rebel, finds Bryan old and busted, because hey, he stuck around. Punk is the new Revolutionary Hotness, now that he's gone, the biggest way to stick it to Vince and Hunter is to chant HIS name instead, try to force the company to acknowledge the guy who isn't there anymore, the crowd showing they have control by making it all about someone who isn't even on the roster. Punk's ego is soothed, but at the expense of Bryan. Personally I say in order for this to happen the crowd would have to forget about Bryan and everything he's been through for the past 2 years which won't happen. Bryan is still popular because of the Yes chants and the fact he's just the ultimate underdog. All this would do is let the crowd cheer more for Punk as well. At the same time understand that if the WWE makes up with Punk and everything is fixed things will swing towards Bryan's way since that is what Punk was wanting as well. Punk, given even he says it is Bryan's time, will likely do everything in his power so Bryan can take the throne so overall it can only be good. The WWE is also good as helping a popular star be elevated when they want to. It all depends if they want to or not. Besides, Bryan has something Punk doesn't and it's that raging wild rampant underdog fire which the crowd loves. He has that natural aura around him. As long as he has that people will always be for him. Punk is a rebel as well. If anything I say this will force Bryan and Punk to toward together somehow. If Punk does stay I can easily see WM31 end with Bryan vs Punk for the title. Just depends if the officials want that.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 30, 2014 22:58:13 GMT -5
The entire discussion of what an "employee owes an employer" is moot, because Punk, as a WWE wrestler, isn't an "employee" to begin with.
Independent contracting means Punk can leave whenever he feels like it, and WWE doesn't have to pay him if he does.
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kidglov3s
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Post by kidglov3s on Jan 30, 2014 23:00:17 GMT -5
The entire discussion of what an "employee owes an employer" is moot, because Punk, as a WWE wrestler, isn't an "employee" to begin with. Independent contracting means Punk can leave whenever he feels like it, and WWE doesn't have to pay him if he does. And also like, if you hold Punk to normal employee standards, this is obviously falling short. If you hold WWE to normal employer standards the place would be shut down. f*** the guys don't even know how they're gonna be getting paid come February.
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