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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 15:39:34 GMT -5
Once I got over the mystique of the gimmick, I've been very uninterested in everything he does. I think it was around 2008-9 or so. The first time he made his "big return" I was like, "well, ok, that's cool I guess." but every time after has just brougth out more and more apathy in me towards him. At this point he's basically my "piss break" of WWE. What's that? The Undertaker's match is coming up? Nap time. I couldn't tell you which one it was, but I was watching a wrestlemania at Hooters and used his entrance as a literal piss break. What was hilarious was while I was at the urinal, like 15 people suddenly came into what was an empty men's room 5 seconds before. |
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Mar 21, 2014 16:22:25 GMT -5
Once I got over the mystique of the gimmick, I've been very uninterested in everything he does. I think it was around 2008-9 or so. The first time he made his "big return" I was like, "well, ok, that's cool I guess." but every time after has just brougth out more and more apathy in me towards him. At this point he's basically my "piss break" of WWE. What's that? The Undertaker's match is coming up? Nap time. Just a piss break? His entrance alone is enough time to take TWO dumps. |
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Greer
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Post by Greer on Mar 21, 2014 17:23:16 GMT -5
As others have mentioned he was very limited due to his gimmick. Choke spots, lack of selling etc.
But let's not forget who the guy was having feuds with for the first quarter of his career. Bundy, Giant Gonzalez, Kama, IRS, Nailz, and other slugs.
The guy had very entertaining matches with Hogan, Jake, and Flair. He just never got too many opportunities to match up with anybody that wasn't a big, slow, plodding guy. His purpose was to face big monsters or stables of jobbers that weren't very good.
As they started moving away from that, of course he would have better matches.
Say what you want about guys like HBK and Flair, they weren't gonna put on a good match with a Giant Gonzalez or Nailz.
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Post by celticjobber on Mar 22, 2014 2:21:13 GMT -5
I remember around 1999 or so, the "typical internet fan's" opinion on Undertaker seemed to be pretty negative.
People said things like he was old, boring, selfish, and should put someone over and retire already. Boy were those people wrong, in hindsight.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Mar 22, 2014 5:45:00 GMT -5
As harsh as it sounds, I'd compare him to Mark Henry as a performer. He could do a few things well, but it took him a long time to become genuinely good in his own right in the ring and not just an imposing figure that people needed to work around, someone best suited to gimmick matches.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Mar 22, 2014 7:13:53 GMT -5
there were periods where at least in-ring he just didn't give a shit. I remember him being pretty dire during the MoD days (apparently he really didn't like the satanism aspect and part of the reason he wanted to be Bikertaker was that he wanted to move away from that).
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DragonMasterP
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Post by DragonMasterP on Mar 22, 2014 8:29:30 GMT -5
The question about Taker's ability in the ring makes me think of his moveset in the N64 games, like that arm twist kick move. Has he ever done that before?
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Mar 22, 2014 8:31:59 GMT -5
The question about Taker's ability in the ring makes me think of his moveset in the N64 games, like that arm twist kick move. Has he ever done that before? I'm fairly certain most games just pad out guys' movesets with moves they never actually do. |
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Mar 22, 2014 8:57:41 GMT -5
Once I got over the mystique of the gimmick, I've been very uninterested in everything he does. I think it was around 2008-9 or so. The first time he made his "big return" I was like, "well, ok, that's cool I guess." but every time after has just brougth out more and more apathy in me towards him. At this point he's basically my "piss break" of WWE. What's that? The Undertaker's match is coming up? Nap time. Worst post I have ever read. Undertaker matches as a piss break? What the f*** do you watch wrestling for? Maybe he likes other wrestlers? |
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Mar 22, 2014 10:05:59 GMT -5
IMO, the latter half of his Bikertaker run, A.K.A the "You're gonna pay" era is when he stepped it up in the ring. More actual wrestling along with his brawling. I used to, and still do in fact, love it when he throws someone into a corner and just rushes them with punches, it looks so badass. Humanising him made him much more flexible in ring character-wise.
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Hawk Hart
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Post by Hawk Hart on Mar 22, 2014 10:14:28 GMT -5
IMO, the latter half of his Bikertaker run, A.K.A the "You're gonna pay" era is when he stepped it up in the ring. More actual wrestling along with his brawling. I used to, and still do in fact, love it when he throws someone into a corner and just rushes them with punches, it looks so badass. Humanising him made him much more flexible in ring character-wise. I hate to always shill my podcast but going back and watch in that era is giving me a really solid appreciation for Taker of the time. |
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Post by adam3s on Mar 22, 2014 10:22:02 GMT -5
I feel like a few of you are comparing The Undertaker's early ring work to today's product which makes it look worse than what it really was.
When he first started people got in to characters more than ring work so he was putting on the right matches for the product. Even so he had decent matches against Roberts and Hogan.
New Generation we saw him put on great matches when he came against decent opposition.
You cannot compare him to the likes of Bryan and The Shield who are getting to put on 15+ minute matches against quality opponents weekly.
Still I don't think there's a wrestler over 6'5 who has anywhere near the list of quality matches like the Undertaker.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Mar 22, 2014 11:55:04 GMT -5
Remember that early on (1991-1996) by and large his matches were all so in character that they weren't supposed to be laid out in the traditional since. The heels really couldn't get the heat unless they stole the urn. So that was the only angle that was possible to make a semi plausible match happen. From 1996 on with Mick Foley coming to WWE things started to get better because Mankind was a gimmick that allowed Undertaker to have standard shine,heat,comeback,finish match without needing overbooking and silliness. Once fans got used to that having UT work matches like that he was able to work it against other wrestlers with fans buying it as realistic.
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Mar 22, 2014 12:30:44 GMT -5
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Mar 22, 2014 12:33:44 GMT -5
I remember around 1999 or so, the "typical internet fan's" opinion on Undertaker seemed to be pretty negative. People said things like he was old, boring, selfish, and should put someone over and retire already. Boy were those people wrong, in hindsight. I'd say that was the majority opinion until about 05. I still remember people vividly complaining about him burying (Or maybe they were afraid that he was going to) John Cena at some point, I think. |
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Mar 22, 2014 12:35:41 GMT -5
Once I got over the mystique of the gimmick, I've been very uninterested in everything he does. I think it was around 2008-9 or so. The first time he made his "big return" I was like, "well, ok, that's cool I guess." but every time after has just brougth out more and more apathy in me towards him. At this point he's basically my "piss break" of WWE. What's that? The Undertaker's match is coming up? Nap time. If Undertaker matches are a piss break, you need to take a really long piss. Too many sodas. |
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Post by Apricots And A Pear Tree on Mar 22, 2014 13:23:47 GMT -5
I remember around 1999 or so, the "typical internet fan's" opinion on Undertaker seemed to be pretty negative. People said things like he was old, boring, selfish, and should put someone over and retire already. Boy were those people wrong, in hindsight. I'd say that was the majority opinion until about 05. I still remember people vividly complaining about him burying (Or maybe they were afraid that he was going to) John Cena at some point, I think. People afraid of John Cena being buried.My how times change. |
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Post by Joker on Mar 22, 2014 13:32:44 GMT -5
I enjoyed old and new undertaker matches. To take a dubious gimmick and make it work so well for so long is a testament to the amount of effort he puts into it.
Sure you can look back and say he didn't wrestle very well but A: He didn't need to and B: it wasn't in character at the time. If he had been vulnerable and fast it would have killed the whole concept of the undertaker character.
Bear in mind not every fan is after a wrestling clinic, I remember as a kid in the early 90s finding Bob background and Ric Flair to be incredibly dull and boring, arguably I still do to a lesser extent.
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Professor Chaos
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Post by Professor Chaos on Mar 22, 2014 22:42:02 GMT -5
He's the most overrated wrestler ever in my opinion
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Post by -Lithium- on Mar 23, 2014 1:33:17 GMT -5
Taker's matches were brutal up until his 2000 return. They got really good once he returned in 2004...
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