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Post by Living Shadow on May 16, 2014 0:48:50 GMT -5
That Damned Fourth Indiana Jones movie that I won't speak its name It's Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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Post by Some Guy on May 16, 2014 8:13:40 GMT -5
1. Temple of Doom: I love this movie. I love the dark atmosphere, I love the sidekicks, I love the villain, I LOVE this film! This movie is just different and refreshing. Short Round is a fun character, but not so awesome that he ever outshines Indiana Jones. Willy is extremely annoying...and that's great, not every damn female character has to be a badass full of confidence warrior goddess, sometimes the cowardly damsels in distress are better to have! Mola Rom is unforgettable, his bald tattooed head, his skull hat, ect...very fearsome villain. I can't agree with this at all. A huge part of the charm of Raiders was that it had such a strong female character that was willing to call Indy out on his shit, and stuck up for herself. Willy completely reverses that in the absolute worst manner, and she's an abortion of a character.
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Goldenbane
Hank Scorpio
THE G.D. Goldenbane
Posts: 7,331
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Post by Goldenbane on May 16, 2014 8:56:18 GMT -5
1. Temple of Doom: I love this movie. I love the dark atmosphere, I love the sidekicks, I love the villain, I LOVE this film! This movie is just different and refreshing. Short Round is a fun character, but not so awesome that he ever outshines Indiana Jones. Willy is extremely annoying...and that's great, not every damn female character has to be a badass full of confidence warrior goddess, sometimes the cowardly damsels in distress are better to have! Mola Rom is unforgettable, his bald tattooed head, his skull hat, ect...very fearsome villain. I can't agree with this at all. A huge part of the charm of Raiders was that it had such a strong female character that was willing to call Indy out on his shit, and stuck up for herself. Willy completely reverses that in the absolute worst manner, and she's an abortion of a character. That's fine, you can like Marion better. Heck, I like Marion better, but what I was trying to say is that you have to have different characters to tell different stories. Willy is an annoying, stupid, coward. She's supposed to be an annoying, stupid, coward so that Indiana has someone to rescue in the story. She's a foil for him. If both Willy and Short Round whipped out guns and whips and started battling the thugee with equal or perhaps greater skill than Indiana Jones...then what the hell is Indiana Jones there for? He's the hero of the story, and should be doing the vast majority of the work. Some characters are kinda designed to suck to make the hero look that much better and heroic. Again, not every character should be written the same way, and the Marions of the world are awesome and great and definitely need their place in fiction too, but the helpless and in distress characters should also have their place, y'know?
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Post by Some Guy on May 16, 2014 9:30:51 GMT -5
I can't agree with this at all. A huge part of the charm of Raiders was that it had such a strong female character that was willing to call Indy out on his shit, and stuck up for herself. Willy completely reverses that in the absolute worst manner, and she's an abortion of a character. That's fine, you can like Marion better. Heck, I like Marion better, but what I was trying to say is that you have to have different characters to tell different stories. Willy is an annoying, stupid, coward. She's supposed to be an annoying, stupid, coward so that Indiana has someone to rescue in the story. She's a foil for him. If both Willy and Short Round whipped out guns and whips and started battling the thugee with equal or perhaps greater skill than Indiana Jones...then what the hell is Indiana Jones there for? He's the hero of the story, and should be doing the vast majority of the work. Some characters are kinda designed to suck to make the hero look that much better and heroic. Again, not every character should be written the same way, and the Marions of the world are awesome and great and definitely need their place in fiction too, but the helpless and in distress characters should also have their place, y'know? I get that, but there's a difference between a damsel-in-distress with actual characterization (look at any of the Spidey movies for that), and Willy. Willy was an annoying obstacle who was attractive, that's it. She wasn't interesting, funny, smart, etc. That's why it sucked...there isn't anything identifiably wrong with having a damsel-in-distress, but make her even somewhat interesting. It just made it seem like Spielberg hated his wife.
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Crimson
Hank Scorpio
Thank you DWade
Posts: 6,511
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Post by Crimson on May 16, 2014 10:03:48 GMT -5
Raiders of the Lost Arc The Last Crusade Kingdom of the Crystal Skull = Temple of Doom
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on May 16, 2014 13:13:15 GMT -5
1. Temple of Doom: I love this movie. I love the dark atmosphere, I love the sidekicks, I love the villain, I LOVE this film! This movie is just different and refreshing. Short Round is a fun character, but not so awesome that he ever outshines Indiana Jones. Willy is extremely annoying...and that's great, not every damn female character has to be a badass full of confidence warrior goddess, sometimes the cowardly damsels in distress are better to have! Mola Rom is unforgettable, his bald tattooed head, his skull hat, ect...very fearsome villain. I can't agree with this at all. A huge part of the charm of Raiders was that it had such a strong female character that was willing to call Indy out on his shit, and stuck up for herself. Willy completely reverses that in the absolute worst manner, and she's an abortion of a character. The contrast in character is what made it so good. Here Indy has to take care of a couple of people who are practically useless in almost every way. Why does that sound familiar? Oh yeah...they did that in EVERY INDY MOVIE AFTERWARDS. That's why I like ToD, it was ambitious in many ways. Crusade was good, as it wrapped up loose ends with questions, but in a lot of ways, they phoned it in with the story. Skulls has absolutely no excuse there.
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Post by Living Shadow on May 16, 2014 16:10:16 GMT -5
The way people feel about Willie and Short Round in TOD is pretty much how I feel about Sallah and Brody in TLC. That movie made them into completely useless comic relief with some truly cringe-inducing moments of humor.
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Post by Living Shadow on May 17, 2014 3:42:22 GMT -5
I can't agree with this at all. A huge part of the charm of Raiders was that it had such a strong female character that was willing to call Indy out on his shit, and stuck up for herself. Willy completely reverses that in the absolute worst manner, and she's an abortion of a character. The contrast in character is what made it so good. Here Indy has to take care of a couple of people who are practically useless in almost every way. Why does that sound familiar? Oh yeah...they did that in EVERY INDY MOVIE AFTERWARDS. That's why I like ToD, it was ambitious in many ways. Crusade was good, as it wrapped up loose ends with questions, but in a lot of ways, they phoned it in with the story. Skulls has absolutely no excuse there. Couldn't agree more. As enjoyable as TLC was, the plot left so much to be desired and it wasn't as much of an adventure as TOD. What really salvages TLC for me is the excellent interplay between Ford and Connery. I always wonder how TLC might've turned out had the original haunted castle concept for it had been used, which I think could've been very cool.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 17, 2014 9:50:39 GMT -5
I grew up loving Last Crusade the most. Just has so many moments I love, and even as a kid I got all jumpy and excited at the idea of Indy and James Bond being on screen together.
So I'll go:
Crusade Raiders Temple Skulls
I honestly didn't hate Crystal Skulls, but I agree that there wasn't enough to make it stand out and feel like it fully warranted being made. Temple of Doom is flawed, but it was my little brother's favorite when we were growing up and I have plenty of nostalgia for it.
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Post by SkullTrauma on May 17, 2014 15:20:30 GMT -5
I wonder if anyone else likes Last Crusade the least? I still enjoy it but it just falls a little flat compared to the rest for me (even Skull). It's the only one with a "been there, done that" feeling and it just doesn't come off as entertaining to me, though I always do find it tremendously entertaining. me. I haven't seen Skull, but I thought Last Crusade was rather boring and only gets the praise it does because Sean Connery was in it.
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Post by Living Shadow on May 17, 2014 15:47:55 GMT -5
I don't find it boring but it lacks the sheer excitement and intensity of the first two for me.
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Post by SkullTrauma on May 17, 2014 16:57:10 GMT -5
if i'm gonna watch a movie about finding the holy grail, monty python will beat indy every single time.
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Post by Ryushinku on May 17, 2014 17:21:49 GMT -5
Short and sweet:
Raiders (original and best) Crusade (lots of fun) Temple (last 30 mins really saves it) Skull (don't mind it, but lacking something)
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Post by Cyno on May 17, 2014 17:27:21 GMT -5
1. Raiders 2. Last Crusade 3. Crystal Skull 4. Temple of Doom
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Post by Living Shadow on May 17, 2014 17:58:26 GMT -5
if i'm gonna watch a movie about finding the holy grail, monty python will beat indy every single time. The Grail wasn't a bad artifact but it just seemed to retread Raiders so much but Indy going after yet another biblical-oriented relic.
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Post by BorneAgain on May 17, 2014 18:13:30 GMT -5
1. Last Crusade 2. Raiders 3. Temple of Doom 4. Crystal Skull
Honestly, I've grown to appreciate Crusade more than the first film over time. Marcus is much more fun as a character, the dynamic between Henry Sr and Indy is even more enjoyable than his stuff with Marion, and the overall theme of what the Holy Grail represents to the various characters feels deeper than that of the Ark. Raiders' biggest advantage is that it came first and features slightly stronger villains with Belloq and Toht. Honestly pair them up with Elsa from Crusade and you'd have the perfect set of antagonists.
With Temple, I give it the nod simply because is more impressive to see an Indy film go for something interesting and fall short than play it safe and succeed. Yeah Willie is annoying, the racist aspects of the movie really do leave a mark on watching it, and Mola Ram, while threatening isn't quite as interesting as the villains that came before or after him. But the quest is a meaningful one, Indy gets a good rapport with Short Round, and you're genuinely emotionally invested in the ending.
Crystal Skull is almost a sad film for me, because they have three potentially interesting elements (Indy's son, aliens, Soviet villains) that they do nothing with. The Russians are Nazis with a fresh coat of paint, the Alien stuff feels half assed, and Mutt is completely wasted because they only reveal he's Indy's son in the last third, and it still doesn't really change the dynamic between the two. Mac is completely useless as a character both thematically and even in the plot, and John Hurt, a man who can do amazing things with spoken dialogue is reduced to playing a spaced out old professor for 90% of the film. It honestly feels like a movie where they put stuff in because an Indiana Jones film has them without understanding why. Its not even a bad movie as much as it is a hollow one.
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Post by Living Shadow on May 17, 2014 21:51:55 GMT -5
If I'd been in charge of KOTCS I would've axed both Oxley and Mac, they served no point at all to the plot.
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Post by benstudd on May 17, 2014 22:02:14 GMT -5
Chalk me up for Order of Release too. I don't consider Crystal Skull to be the awful, awful travesty that a lot of fans do, but there is absolutely no reason why that movie should even exist. Last Crusade literally ended with Indy riding off into the sunset, fer cryin' out loud! Yup. Too much time past, for one. Two, movies had changed too much. Three, without going into religion, I don't know how you top an artifact that was supposedly held by the most iconic person ever, and said artifact could let you live forever. Four, we needed a movie that didn't feel too close to Raiders or Crusade...that didn't have that. On top of that, no memorable score like the other 3. Implausible actions of characters, unlike the other 3. Practically zero violence like the other 3. Poor ensemble cast, minus Shia, who was okay. Just a lot of disappointment instead of actual "hate". Also to me those movies are too much a product of their times. Of the 80s(even though the third one was 1990). Everything from the "feel" of the times, of the way the effects were more practical back then and so forth, it couldn't have been done any other times. So when you come here and do a sequel to something from an entire another period, it's almost like playing with your father's toys. There's something wrong with it. That whole movie had this vibe, like you're trying to re-do these movies, trying to re-capture what Indy was but it felt wrong, like it was a bad parody of what those movies were.
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Post by benstudd on May 17, 2014 22:10:34 GMT -5
1. Last Crusade 2. Raiders 3. Temple of Doom 4. Crystal Skull Honestly, I've grown to appreciate Crusade more than the first film over time. Marcus is much more fun as a character, the dynamic between Henry Sr and Indy is even more enjoyable than his stuff with Marion, and the overall theme of what the Holy Grail represents to the various characters feels deeper than that of the Ark. Raiders' biggest advantage is that it came first and features slightly stronger villains with Belloq and Toht. Honestly pair them up with Elsa from Crusade and you'd have the perfect set of antagonists. With Temple, I give it the nod simply because is more impressive to see an Indy film go for something interesting and fall short than play it safe and succeed. Yeah Willie is annoying, the racist aspects of the movie really do leave a mark on watching it, and Mola Ram, while threatening isn't quite as interesting as the villains that came before or after him. But the quest is a meaningful one, Indy gets a good rapport with Short Round, and you're genuinely emotionally invested in the ending. Crystal Skull is almost a sad film for me, because they have three potentially interesting elements (Indy's son, aliens, Soviet villains) that they do nothing with. The Russians are Nazis with a fresh coat of paint, the Alien stuff feels half assed, and Mutt is completely wasted because they only reveal he's Indy's son in the last third, and it still doesn't really change the dynamic between the two. Mac is completely useless as a character both thematically and even in the plot, and John Hurt, a man who can do amazing things with spoken dialogue is reduced to playing a spaced out old professor for 90% of the film. It honestly feels like a movie where they put stuff in because an Indiana Jones film has them without understanding why. Its not even a bad movie as much as it is a hollow one. We have this image of Jones, this adventurer, and I wish his son would have been closer to who he was, even if more rebelious. The casting was just wrong, Leboeuf just doesn't have a heroic image, he's the eternal sidekick. I mean when you have Batman in a movie, his son will be closer to what he look like but in a smaller version, he'll be dark hair and badass for example. Case in point- River Phoenix in Last Crusade.
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Post by Living Shadow on May 17, 2014 23:42:47 GMT -5
I didn't mind Mutt too much in KOTCS. I found that character to be the last tolerable role LeBoueuf did before he got annoying in his subsequent ones.
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