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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2014 17:34:29 GMT -5
I look at it like this: Raw(the only TV show that matters) brings in around 4M viewers or so weekly in the US. Of that 4M, around 1M are willing to pay for Wrestlemania(and if you're going to order 1 PPV it's probably going to be WM). Throw in another 300-400K that may purchase a random PPV throughout the year(and I feel that is a very generous estimate). Say that brings it up to 1.4M or so people that are regular/semi-regular PPV buyers and theoretically potential Network buyers right off of the bat and to me that's the ceiling for it at the moment. Then of that 1.4M not all of them are going to have the resources or inclination to subscribe to a niche form of entertainment. All that is on the Network is wrestling, it's not like Netflix or whatever where one has a decent variety of things to choose from, it's literally all wrestling and a lot of fans just aren't that into it. I really feel like the Network is really limited to the hardcore wrestling fans for the most part. I just don't see people that don't bother with the PPVs as is to subscribe to the Network to see them now. This doesn't even factor in all of the people that "find" streams online and don't pay anything and have no real reason to since they're fine with stealing the PPVs.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jun 29, 2014 17:42:13 GMT -5
It is not necessarily cheapskates, a lot of people just don't get or care about streaming tech despite what we on the internet think. A lot of people still aren't big into things like Roku, Apple TV, or Chromecast, and don't care about what their Xbox or Playstation can do outside of playing games. This why we see things like Kofi Kingston walking people through the steps of getting a Roku, hooking it up to the TV, downloading the WWE Network app, and subscribing. Hell there are numerous reports from people who work for cable companies taking calls from people asking what channel the WWE Network is and/or how to get it from their cable/sat. provider thus the thing with the Bellas as flight attendants talking about what you can watch WWE Network on.
This also doesn't take into account that unless you have decent high speed internet service, which a lot of rural areas that contain a large chunk of WWE's fan base, you cannot stream WWE Network. I have Verizon DSL and struggle to stream. If not for the huge savings combined with Dish dropping them, I'd probably say f*** it. Speaking of Dish, there is another thing, from what I have heard, those who have satellite service cannot use the service.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2014 17:45:40 GMT -5
I look at it like this: Raw(the only TV show that matters) brings in around 4M viewers or so weekly in the US. Of that 4M, around 1M are willing to pay for Wrestlemania(and if you're going to order 1 PPV it's probably going to be WM). Throw in another 300-400K that may purchase a random PPV throughout the year(and I feel that is a very generous estimate). Say that brings it up to 1.4M or so people that are regular/semi-regular PPV buyers and theoretically potential Network buyers right off of the bat and to me that's the ceiling for it at the moment. Then of that 1.4M not all of them are going to have the resources or inclination to subscribe to a niche form of entertainment. All that is on the Network is wrestling, it's not like Netflix or whatever where one has a decent variety of things to choose from, it's literally all wrestling and a lot of fans just aren't that into it. I really feel like the Network is really limited to the hardcore wrestling fans for the most part. I just don't see people that don't bother with the PPVs as is to subscribe to the Network to see them now. This doesn't even factor in all of the people that "find" streams online and don't pay anything and have no real reason to since they're fine with stealing the PPVs. I also feel there may be an issue with the WWE (seemingly) not advertising the WWE Network outside of their own shows. If they had a collection of adverts saying 'All PPVs included with $10 a month subscription to a database of wrestling and entertainment from the past and present!' running in different places maybe it'd have more reach? Or maybe the adverts are crap and not clear enough with the benefits of having the network? Note: I've not been in the US since the Network started up so maybe they have done this but I've not heard anyone mention it at all.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jun 29, 2014 18:03:23 GMT -5
I look at it like this: Raw(the only TV show that matters) brings in around 4M viewers or so weekly in the US. Of that 4M, around 1M are willing to pay for Wrestlemania(and if you're going to order 1 PPV it's probably going to be WM). Throw in another 300-400K that may purchase a random PPV throughout the year(and I feel that is a very generous estimate). Say that brings it up to 1.4M or so people that are regular/semi-regular PPV buyers and theoretically potential Network buyers right off of the bat and to me that's the ceiling for it at the moment. Then of that 1.4M not all of them are going to have the resources or inclination to subscribe to a niche form of entertainment. All that is on the Network is wrestling, it's not like Netflix or whatever where one has a decent variety of things to choose from, it's literally all wrestling and a lot of fans just aren't that into it. I really feel like the Network is really limited to the hardcore wrestling fans for the most part. I just don't see people that don't bother with the PPVs as is to subscribe to the Network to see them now. This doesn't even factor in all of the people that "find" streams online and don't pay anything and have no real reason to since they're fine with stealing the PPVs. I also feel there may be an issue with the WWE (seemingly) not advertising the WWE Network outside of their own shows. If they had a collection of adverts saying 'All PPVs included with $10 a month subscription to a database of wrestling and entertainment from the past and present!' running in different places maybe it'd have more reach? Or maybe the adverts are crap and not clear enough with the benefits of having the network? Note: I've not been in the US since the Network started up so maybe they have done this but I've not heard anyone mention it at all. I have seen a few ads outside WWE programming but nothing major at all. I think the issues there though, if someone is following WWE, they know about the Network and PPV deal. The people they'd be trying to reach outside of their programming are the fans who would be tuning in for the old stuff and that isn't on there yet. Yeah they can watch the MNW era PPVs but there is nothing else for them right now and I don't see them watching a new PPV and deciding to then give RAW a shot. It is a sticky situation where they need those fans but to draw them in, they'd have to sacrifice what they want to be a draw to renew in 6 months to a year.
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Glitch
King Koopa
Not Going To Die; Childs, we're goin' out to give Blair the test. If he tries to make it back here and we're not with him... burn him.
Watching you.
Posts: 12,716
Member is Online
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Post by Glitch on Jun 29, 2014 18:14:36 GMT -5
$9.99 isn't much. It's that *With 6 month commitment that has me going "nope." I don't always have an extra $10 in my bank account. At least for Hulu and Netflix when I can't pay, I just can't use it until I pay. That doesn't happen with a commitment tagged to you; it doesn't become "just pay it again and you're right back into it." It turns into "you can't cancel, so you're screwed." Never understood the justification for that. If they're scared people will just pop the $10 in for the PPV and immediately cancel, they don't understand people who pirate. They're not looking for low-cost options, they look for NO cost options. And considering they are no longer technically selling the PPVS individually to watch except for DVDs, instead wanting you to forego PPV and just go with them, no one is that dumb to think "Oh, I'll show WWE, I'll purchase it on PPV!" Vince thought he could treat the customer just like the talent. We're still waiting to job to Cena.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jun 29, 2014 20:11:19 GMT -5
It's another case of the WWE overreaching, estimating just how in demand their product is based on what Vince believes his product is, rather than going by the number of people who actually paid for things like DVDs and PPVs before they cannibalised those products for the network... Now they're paying for the infrastructure that delivers the product and have to make new material on top of that in the hope of attracting and retaining enough subscribers to get them to break even point, and they're competing with themselves to boot as they can't offer current Raw and Smackdowns.
Vince and the WWE seem to have based their expectations for the WWE network on the numbers that sports services get for their on demand services, and like the TV deal, they were never going to get those number because wrestling just isn't comparable to real sports. There are no local wrestling teams that inspire loyalty as generations have grown up with a team in the way fans of baseball, football and basketball have, there are no local teams scattered across the country competing against oneanother so there's no 'SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY' attitude in the fanbase. Heck, the WWE for the longest time has painted the opinions of loyal adult fans as worthless as long as they have women and kids cheering for certain guys... But kids aren't the ones paying for subscription services. You can pester parents to get you a shirt, a figure, but talking them into making a financial commitment to a monthly subscription service is an uphill battle, especially if it's a subscription on top of a subscription like getting it through XBox and, lets not forget, Raw and Smackdown are free on TV and the product is built around those two shows. It has been since the attitude era so other than Wrestlemania, access to the other PPVs aren't as big a selling point as they could be as they seem like more of an optional extra.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jun 29, 2014 20:44:02 GMT -5
Ten bucks I can spend on anything else.
It's a good deal, but as little rasslin as I actually pay attention to, it's still more money than I want to plunk down.
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Professor Chaos
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bringer of Destruction and Maker of Doom
Posts: 16,332
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Post by Professor Chaos on Jun 30, 2014 1:59:00 GMT -5
It's a great deal to me. Shame people that can't fork out 10 bucks a month are gonna cause it to die.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2014 4:00:07 GMT -5
I pretty much expected it to go down the way it has from day one, since if you need a quarter of your audience to buy something and about 5% of them typically actually invest money in your product, you're biting off way more than you can chew. So, yeah, I figure next year they're going to jack up the prices on the Network and maybe put up Raw and Nitro in bulk to try and smooth it over, it won't work, and the Network will be dead by about 2017 or so.
Granted, I was pretty damn satisfied with it while I had it. I don't think I'm going to renew for awhile though, mostly because the current product doesn't interest me at all.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,920
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jun 30, 2014 4:55:14 GMT -5
It is not necessarily cheapskates, a lot of people just don't get or care about streaming tech despite what we on the internet think. A lot of people still aren't big into things like Roku, Apple TV, or Chromecast, and don't care about what their Xbox or Playstation can do outside of playing games. This why we see things like Kofi Kingston walking people through the steps of getting a Roku, hooking it up to the TV, downloading the WWE Network app, and subscribing. Hell there are numerous reports from people who work for cable companies taking calls from people asking what channel the WWE Network is and/or how to get it from their cable/sat. provider thus the thing with the Bellas as flight attendants talking about what you can watch WWE Network on. This also doesn't take into account that unless you have decent high speed internet service, which a lot of rural areas that contain a large chunk of WWE's fan base, you cannot stream WWE Network. I have Verizon DSL and struggle to stream. If not for the huge savings combined with Dish dropping them, I'd probably say f*** it. Speaking of Dish, there is another thing, from what I have heard, those who have satellite service cannot use the service. People are so tech stupid, it's awful. I'm ok, I think. To a certain group of people I'm an idiot. To my family and people I work with, I'm a wizard. I do the basic of things, like plugging the mouse in and they look at me like I just did actual magic. Not Copperfield tricks, magic. I'd plunk down $10 a month for the Network, I get all the wrestling I like and when they accidentally put on a good PPV these days, I'll watch that. I care so little for the product now I don't PVR it or even bother to stream it. Their reach may exceed their grasp, but as a wrestling fan, this is something I want and I'm excited for when it launches in Canada.
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Post by Father Dougal McGuire on Jun 30, 2014 5:10:55 GMT -5
To be honest, it's not the cost that keeps me from subscribing, I am just waiting for bugs to be worked out. I am sure everything is fine watching the archived stuff, but I do wonder how the PPVS works streaming wise, especially the bigger ones.
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Chip
Hank Scorpio
Slam Jam Death.
Posts: 5,185
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Post by Chip on Jun 30, 2014 6:16:54 GMT -5
To be honest, it's not the cost that keeps me from subscribing, I am just waiting for bugs to be worked out. I am sure everything is fine watching the archived stuff, but I do wonder how the PPVS works streaming wise, especially the bigger ones. In my experience, flawlessly. I did not have a single hiccup with Mania or any of the smaller PPVs.
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amaron
Samurai Cop
I yam what I yam.
Posts: 2,212
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Post by amaron on Jun 30, 2014 8:15:48 GMT -5
I know that a lot of people are waiting for the rest of the RAW and Nitro episodes to be added.
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Post by xCompackx on Jun 30, 2014 8:19:00 GMT -5
What's the point of a PPV if you don't get the build up shows? No RAWs make PPVs pointless. Yeah, it's a nice marketing plug to say "You can watch every past PPV on WWE Network", but it does suck not having any context for any of the matches that are on them. I'm sure it'll happen at some point, but every Raw/SmackDown is what would sell a lot better I think. I think the main reason WWE is losing money on the Network is that they stupidly launched it with it only being available for purchase in the United States. There's a reason the first W in WWE stands for World. I also think that it needs more original programming like Legends House and not just old wrestling footage. Old wrestling footage is cool but there needs to be more variety in what's available to watch. See, that's purely WWE's fault for not having content stocked up. They should've been filming shows since WWE Network didn't launch in 2012 just in case it worked out. Stuff like Countdown and WrestleMania Rewind are fun and all, but they really should've planned ahead better.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,061
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Post by Mecca on Jun 30, 2014 8:21:02 GMT -5
I don't think it's really all that expensive. At least not for me who has gone the cord cutter route to entertainment. Dropping my 120 dollar a month Direct TV bill was one of the best things I ever did. Now my family just watches things through the internet with a PC or Roku or a game system. Paying an internet bill with Netflix, Hulu and WWE is way cheaper than paying for Cable and Internet. Hell we even managed to drop our cell phone bill to less than 30 dollars a month. You can save a ton of money if you pay attention to what you're doing. I pay less for Internet, Netflix, Hulu, WWE Network and our cell phones than I did for just Direct TV. You just have to gauge what is valuable to you.
As far as why their subscribers look that way it's just simple as this, you take a niche product and couple that with a non tech savy fan base and you get this. This country in general is tech stupid and you're asking a fan base that is full of unintelligent people to figure out how to use this. Also people get set in their way, my dad keeps cable because it's what he's always done. Also for them to really hit the foreign markets hard with subscribers they'll have to spend more money. They're going to have to add more content for non english speaking people.
I don't see the network dying anytime soon they've invested way to much money in it to let it go. Problem is they're probably at their cap for US subscribers unless they somehow get really popular but I don't see that happening anytime soon. And for anyone who thinks adding Nitro and more WCW stuff is going to create subscribers it might get a few. But any hardcore WCW fans who left when it died aren't going to give Vince their money.
I think the current product is blah but that isn't what I got the Network for. I got it because I want to relive the boom period, watch legends of wrestling and the docs. To me the PPV's are honestly just a bonus. You'd think for anyone willing to go to the trouble to pirate a PPV the 10 dollars would be worth the quality upgrade alone.
I think one of the biggest problems they have is older fans will want to see the attitude era, most of those fans are either gone or have kids now and don't want their kids watching that programming. So I absolutely see some parents not getting it when they and their kids both want it but making the decision that they don't want to take the chance of their kid watching older wrestling that is inappropriate.
All in all I think it's worth the money and the content is only going to increase but they are contending with a lot of factors as to people not getting it.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,061
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Post by Mecca on Jun 30, 2014 8:24:29 GMT -5
I know that a lot of people are waiting for the rest of the RAW and Nitro episodes to be added. But on the same token why would you add it all at once? Then someone could sign up once watch all they wanted and cancel as opposed to slowly adding it.
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Post by joeiscool on Jun 30, 2014 8:38:20 GMT -5
I think it's a few things...
A: wwe appeals to a lot of kids right now. I remember when I was a kid, I never bought anything online. Everything on my old computer was pirated. I mean one because it was a lot harder to buy stuff online, but the other was I didn't have a job. Now that I work I have literally have not pirated anything.
B: people are just set in their ways. Cable is dying, but they are still the go to medium.
C: Lack of programing. Netflix/hulu is 8 dollars and you get tons of different content including wrestling. This is 10 and all you get is wrestling.
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Post by Famous Rocking Chimes on Jun 30, 2014 14:33:38 GMT -5
Am I the only one who doesn't get why the current product determines whether or not someone buys the Network or not? I bought it purely for the archive material and while I do watch the live PPVs I don't really give a toss about whether the current product is good when it pertains to the Network.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Jun 30, 2014 14:50:59 GMT -5
it is a good deal. But the current wwe ppv isn't worth $10 to me. I've watch all the wcw ppv from 96 to 2000. If I get through ecw before the end of August when it runs out, I'm out.
I wanted for nostalgia, I got that. Call me when Nitro and Saturday Nights are added.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jun 30, 2014 14:59:58 GMT -5
Here's the big problem: People don't want what my dad would refer to as an "Elaborate Procedure." The WWE Network is just such a thing. I can't just get it from my cable box, so it requires either hooking a computer into the TV (which I hate doing since stuff looks like a goofy download) or buying new equipment. Thus, the Roku since I don't have the various game consoles. That is about 70 bucks right there. Then there's the problem that either the Roku or Network doesn't quite work right with no rhyme or reason. It just reboots during shows. Or last night during MITB the picture just gets sorta crappy and I have to reboot the Roku between matches. Maybe it is my router but then I'd have to buy a new router and I really don't enjoy that prospect. It's a tech headache and I can see why people don't want to mess with it.
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