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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Jul 10, 2014 13:42:51 GMT -5
Basically, WWE is racist in much the same way that the majority of the entertainment industry is. A bit moreso due to the specific influences of people like Vince and Hayes.
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Jul 10, 2014 13:44:09 GMT -5
Booker T and Mark Henry had only held the World Title (and the ECW one in Mark's case), which, as the article described and everyone else with a keen eye is aware of, doesn't count because it wasn't the MAIN world title. So JBL wasn't a world champion because he was on the B brand and never headline over the Raw champion on any multi brand PPV? No, Booker T was the world champion when he had to carry the smackdown brand on house shows and PPVs without the help of any other major champion. That's what a world champion.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Jul 10, 2014 13:44:29 GMT -5
Not that this dismisses everything else. The Rock. Yeah, 1 isn't much better than none but it's pretty disrespectful to overlook one of the most popular wrestlers of all time. I have a big issue with this too. Like, the lack of diversity is a problem absolutely worth addressing, but whenever any idiot dismisses The Rock because he's "only half black" or "half Samoan," it shows they are not remotely in any sort of position to be discussing race. Such a woeful display of ignorance.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 13:45:08 GMT -5
Of couse they do.
Its an American cultural institution dictated by an elderly, rich, white male who is trying to appeal to the broadest audience possible.
Its actually not unlike SNL in that way. Sure, they'll throw in a few token African-American players (usually only to parody popular black celebs of the moment) but for the most part Lorne Michaels is the Vince of SNL. To SNL's credit they have a better track record with giving female writers/actresses a chance than WWE has had with their female employees.
I don't think either franchise is overtly racist/sexist, as in, they actively think "people of color don't deserve top spots," but more they have their tastes/preferences which they feel fit their "brand" of entertainment better - that just happen to skew white and male.
I'm not defending them or trying to give them a pass - they definitely need a change, but I can see where the writer's bubble can make them blind to obvious issues.
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LastCall
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Post by LastCall on Jul 10, 2014 13:47:47 GMT -5
I completely forgot that the Nation of Domination was a militant Samoan group. And "African-Canadian"? Talk about self serving.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 13:50:40 GMT -5
Not that this dismisses everything else. The Rock. Yeah, 1 isn't much better than none but it's pretty disrespectful to overlook one of the most popular wrestlers of all time. I have a big issue with this too. Like, the lack of diversity is a problem absolutely worth addressing, but whenever any idiot dismisses The Rock because he's "only half black" or "half Samoan," it shows they are not remotely in any sort of position to be discussing race. Such a woeful display of ignorance. Well, the article does stipulate that the Rock identifies himself as Samoan, not black and the crux of the article was predominatly about black athletes in WWE. I don't think they were dismissing it. When he did identify as black on-screen, it was in the NoD - a heel faction. Most of his face run (and singles heel as well) was as a proud Samoan, which itself is a positive move for WWE.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Jul 10, 2014 13:52:50 GMT -5
I completely forgot that the Nation of Domination was a militant Samoan group. And "African-Canadian"? Talk about self serving. The "identifies as Samoan" thing that people who dismiss The Rock as"not black" always point out is so weird. As if to say The Rock would correct someone and take offense if someone said he was black or something, or like Rock has EVER tried to downplay the black part of his heritage.
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hassanchop
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Post by hassanchop on Jul 10, 2014 13:53:37 GMT -5
So why is Henry and Booker being world heavyweight champion being completely ignored? The perfect question here should be why is the world heavyweight champion being completely ignored?
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Post by Gravedigger's Biscuits on Jul 10, 2014 13:54:03 GMT -5
I completely forgot that the Nation of Domination was a militant Samoan group. And "African-Canadian"? Talk about self serving. The "identifies as Samoan" thing that people who dismiss The Rock as"not black" always point out is so weird. As if to say The Rock would correct someone and take offense if someone said he was black or something, or like Rock has EVER tried to downplay the black part of his heritage. Exactly. It makes these people no better than WWE with all this "The Rock doesn't count as black" talk.
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froggyfrog
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Post by froggyfrog on Jul 10, 2014 14:01:17 GMT -5
I don't think they have a race problem? I don't even remember the last time two superstars raced eachother.
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Jul 10, 2014 14:05:25 GMT -5
Yeah, not that I'm excusing this though. I'm a black guy myself, but I realize that pro wrestling has been run by old white men from the South since the beginning. African Americans always been the hucking, jiving dancing kid friendly sideshow unless they were big, then they were big brusers like Henry and Simmons and Big E. And I don't even need to go on about Latinos, hell even their biggest Latino star ever, Eddie, lived by "Lie, Cheat, and Steal" and he came out in a lowrider. That's just how wrestling is. It's not enlightening, it's been made by white people for white people (for the most part). That's just the way it is. There are a lot of us black fans on the board, but I think we're underrepresented in the fanbase as a whole. With WWE, I guess I'd agree right now. In the past we had guys like Shelton for a little bit and Lashley actually being pushed. But right now who's being pushed...well it isn't black folks right now lmao. Unless you call Kofi and Big E getting the piss beaten out of them by Cesaro a push. We're actually being represented better in the Divas division right now. Alicia Fox is one of the few Divas to have an actual character, and Cameron and Naomi's feud is getting pretty coverage on TV.
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Rican
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Post by Rican on Jul 10, 2014 14:06:55 GMT -5
"Vince McMahon doesn't care about black people"
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Jul 10, 2014 14:07:43 GMT -5
I honestly think Vince just cares about money. If he sees a guy that will make him a lot of money he'll push him to the moon. He gave Mark Henry a 10 year contract when he was the drizzling sh** in the ring and there was discussion of Vince wanting Henry to end the streak to get him over as a monster heel on 2 different occasions.(2006 and I believe 2012) Lashly as well since Vince got a boner looking at those muscles and pushed him to the moon.
Again it could just be Vince not having confidence that any of the other African American wrestler could draw him as much money as a comparative other race wrestler. I mean this is a guess but Vince clearly has his own way to judge who should be top talents and it isn't based on race. He's an equal burial.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 14:09:10 GMT -5
If you use a ton of qualifiers, then sure, there's never been an African-American World Champion in WWE. There are a lot of valid points and the wrestling business isn't exactly the standard bearer in race relations, but that article includes a lot of generalities.
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Post by Welfare Willis on Jul 10, 2014 14:11:06 GMT -5
So why is Henry and Booker being world heavyweight champion being completely ignored? The perfect question here should be why is the world heavyweight champion being completely ignored? I don't think it's ignore so much as that we all know there's a pecking order with the title belts. It's not the "big one" the wwe championship. I don't want to disregard the author's comments because he makes a valid and lucid point. People like Mark Henry and R-Truth had brilliant runs before circumstances caught up with them (injury or other). But even there you can ask why Randy Orton continues to be pushed despite his numerous defaults. I'm amazed that WWE hasn't done much with Titus O'Neal who is just, IMO, so money.
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Post by wallabylikeyou on Jul 10, 2014 14:12:38 GMT -5
Short answer: Yes.
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Jul 10, 2014 14:16:51 GMT -5
The perfect question here should be why is the world heavyweight champion being completely ignored? I don't think it's ignore so much as that we all know there's a pecking order with the title belts. It's not the "big one" the wwe championship. Again the issue is that JBL by going with other people's comments was never a world champion because he was on the B show and never headline over the Raw main event. But nobody has ever argued that. If you don't think Booker T or Henry or Bobby Lashley (ECW) count as world champions then you have to argue Eddie and JBL weren't world champions either.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jul 10, 2014 14:24:22 GMT -5
In my opinion, the general fanbase is no better than the WWE in regards to this disturbing ongoing trend. I feel a bit ill every time I see "new Nation" mentioned around these parts, and I know it's not just those here. People just can't seem to conceive of the idea of singular, unique and complex gimmicks for African-Americans other than to just lump them all in one group together and "that" is their gimmick. It's stupid, it's outdated, it's racist and it's lazy.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jul 10, 2014 14:25:53 GMT -5
Not that this dismisses everything else. The Rock. Yeah, 1 isn't much better than none but it's pretty disrespectful to overlook one of the most popular wrestlers of all time. I have a big issue with this too. Like, the lack of diversity is a problem absolutely worth addressing, but whenever any idiot dismisses The Rock because he's "only half black" or "half Samoan," it shows they are not remotely in any sort of position to be discussing race. Such a woeful display of ignorance. Read it again. They mention him AND qualify his position in the article. He personally identifies as Samoan.
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Jul 10, 2014 14:35:50 GMT -5
I completely forgot that the Nation of Domination was a militant Samoan group. And "African-Canadian"? Talk about self serving. Yes and no. Trying to discount him as a black wrestler because he "identifies as Samoan" is a moot point, but the bolded part, concerning his heritage is rather salient. Speaking of the big belt (not the "Big Gold," but the WWE Championship) all three Hispanics to hold the title have lineages that go to the biggest names in Lucha Libre - Misterio, Guerrero and Mascaras (Del Rio). Regardless of whether you see the Rock as Black, Samoan or "half-and-half," he's still a third generation Maivia, and I don't doubt that helped him out a little. But because the internet and America has a severe white guilt problem, everyone is going to say it does. We just had a recent thread(posts in the Natalya thread) with the most hideous kill whitey racism promoted and there were zero complaints about it...but this thread will be seen as some great glory of "anti-racism" and I'll probably be warned or banned for this post. "Kill whitey racism?" Wanna run that by me again?
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