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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 14, 2014 10:55:12 GMT -5
Militarise the police and they'll behave aggressively.
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mattperiolat
King Koopa
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Post by mattperiolat on Aug 14, 2014 10:56:36 GMT -5
St. Louis PD are being removed from the situation. - sourceIf this were a wrestling event I'd be chanting "you f***ed up!" as they left. To put it mildly. I hope Ferguson has deep coffers because the lawsuits from last night are going to bleed the city dry..
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Post by Hakumental on Aug 14, 2014 10:59:25 GMT -5
Not going to link it here, but Anonymous apparently got the cop's name and tweeted it.
Ruh-roh.
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Post by flowercity on Aug 14, 2014 11:04:29 GMT -5
I feel that we, as a people, need to seriously reevaluate how we act around someone with a gun. I was taught to respect guns. If you’re in an altercation with someone (be it police, security or otherwise) and they have a gun you show them respect. In this instance you’re not showing the person respect or telling them you approve of them or their actions, you’re showing the gun respect, and in turn, your life. What you do NOT want to do when in an altercation with someone who is armed is antagonize them. Whether it be cursing at them, yelling “f*** The Police” at them, throwing things at them, or punching them in the face repeatedly (see: Trayvon). I don’t care if they’ve profiled you for your color, sex, whatever. I don’t care if they’ve called you every name in the book or even became violent with you. If they have a gun YOU SHOW THE GUN RESPECT. Being slighted, profiled or discriminated against is horrible and should never ever happen but it is not worth your life. This doesn’t mean that I blame the victims for getting shot, or that I feel that they deserved to be shot. I also am NOT saying that if the victims had acted with respect towards the gun that they wouldn’t have been shot. This is just me stating what should damn well be common sense. Uh....what? So when guns are used to abuse our rights we are suppose to respect? An unarmed kid was shot with a gun, so now we have to respect that gun? Just become someone has a gun doesn't mean I should show it respect if the person holding said gun instigates me with slurs and/or violence.
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Post by Orange on Aug 14, 2014 11:07:02 GMT -5
Crazy situation in Ferguson, and the cops are seemingly doing everything to make it worse.
I saw footage just a couple hours ago on CNN where tear gas was thrown at REPORTERS, and then when they ran away the cops pointed their lighting rig and cameras towards the ground.
They seem to think that they can prevent people from reporting this story, and I don't understand how the hell they think that's going to work in 2014. I can't say much about Ferguson as I've never been, but it would appear their police force is crooked to say the very, very least.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Aug 14, 2014 11:13:52 GMT -5
Not going to link it here, but Anonymous apparently got the cop's name and tweeted it. Ruh-roh. The two names that have been released by anonymous have been reported as incorrect. Granted could easily be spin, but as there are two names floating around it's entirely possible.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 11:14:22 GMT -5
Crazy situation in Ferguson, and the cops are seemingly doing everything to make it worse. I saw footage just a couple hours ago on CNN where tear gas was thrown at REPORTERS, and then when they ran away the cops pointed their lighting rig and cameras towards the ground. They seem to think that they can prevent people from reporting this story, and I don't understand how the hell they think that's going to work in 2014. I can't say much about Ferguson as I've never been, but it would appear their police force is crooked to say the very, very least. There was a lot of chatter online about how major media outlets weren't really covering the story at the level they should be and the only real place to get info was on Twitter/FB. FB eventually disabled the hashtag Ferguson though. But yeah - it really shows the disconnect between the people making the rules and the people who the rules are being made for. They have ZERO idea how information is even passed and at what rate. Which is why I cringe when I hear that the Supreme court making decisions about technology/net neutrality.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Aug 14, 2014 11:33:39 GMT -5
I feel that we, as a people, need to seriously reevaluate how we act around someone with a gun. I was taught to respect guns. If you’re in an altercation with someone (be it police, security or otherwise) and they have a gun you show them respect. In this instance you’re not showing the person respect or telling them you approve of them or their actions, you’re showing the gun respect, and in turn, your life. What you do NOT want to do when in an altercation with someone who is armed is antagonize them. Whether it be cursing at them, yelling “f*** The Police” at them, throwing things at them, or punching them in the face repeatedly (see: Trayvon). I don’t care if they’ve profiled you for your color, sex, whatever. I don’t care if they’ve called you every name in the book or even became violent with you. If they have a gun YOU SHOW THE GUN RESPECT. Being slighted, profiled or discriminated against is horrible and should never ever happen but it is not worth your life. This doesn’t mean that I blame the victims for getting shot, or that I feel that they deserved to be shot. I also am NOT saying that if the victims had acted with respect towards the gun that they wouldn’t have been shot. This is just me stating what should damn well be common sense. Before I respond, I must admit that I know none of what I am about to say firsthand. I am a very pale white guy, so I have never experienced any of the discrimination that minorities might experience. Having said that, my impression is that the minorities in the local community in that region have been rather oppressed for generations. Blacks account for 86& of all traffic stops in the area despite blacks representing nowhere near that percentage of the community, let alone not representing anywhere near 86% of all drivers. This is a region where the local police are in the midst of a lawsuit where one of their own is suing them for harassment because he blew the whistle on his superior for directing his officers to target blacks. This is precipitated by a shooting where all sides claim started because the cop stopped to yell at the kids for walking in the street and then according to multiple eyewitnesses repeatedly shot the kid after he tried to surrender. The other person on the scene tried to give a statement to the police for their investigation, obtaining a lawyer for that purpose, only to be turned away by the police (they may or may not have interviewed him by now, but they certainly did not for several days). All of these things are things that the local minorities suggest are par for the course. If you were treated like that repeatedly you would lose any sense of respect for authorities as well, I expect. I know I would.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 12:05:14 GMT -5
Uh....what? So when guns are used to abuse our rights we are suppose to respect? An unarmed kid was shot with a gun, so now we have to respect that gun? Just become someone has a gun doesn't mean I should show it respect if the person holding said gun instigates me with slurs and/or violence. If the person holding the gun instigates you with slurs and violence that's all the MORE reason to respect their gun in particular's ability to do you harm. It's when someone's holding a gun to you inciting you that you need MOST to realize the danger the gun could do to you. All of these things are things that the local minorities suggest are par for the course. If you were treated like that repeatedly you would lose any sense of respect for authorities as well, I expect. I know I would. I didn't say you should have any respect for anyone who doesn't have any for you in return, authority or not. I'm not saying "that person has a gun you should respect them". I am saying that you should respect your own life when someone has a gun pointed at you. Obviously it might not make any difference either way, but when someone has a gun pointed at me they are the boss. That strikes me as common sense. Whether they're right, wrong, an asshole, a racist, abusing power or any/all of the above. If they're holding a gun on you they are in control and you listen to them.
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Post by flowercity on Aug 14, 2014 12:28:17 GMT -5
I understand what you're saying, I guess I just vehemently disagree with you, which is OK.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 12:44:01 GMT -5
I understand what you're saying, I guess I just vehemently disagree with you, which is OK. I understand you disagree with me, I just don't get your reasoning. To me, if someone pulls a gun on me and says "get down on the ground" and my first action isn't getting down on the ground I'm doing something wrong. -I don't care how much they've incited me. -I don't care if they're just doing it because of the color of my skin or my orientation. -I don't care if I respect them or not. -I don't care if they're obviously in the wrong.I get down on the ground.I've been the victim of gun violence. I've been been the victim of a home invasion and forced down on my living room floor at gunpoint. You know what I did? Exactly what they told me to. It may or may not have saved my life, but again, to me it was common sense. What is your reasoning for disagreeing with me? The opposing argument to mine is: Have a gun pointed at you; not listen to what you are being told by the person holding it. How in the hell can anyone say that's the thing you should do?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 12:49:53 GMT -5
I understand what you're saying, I guess I just vehemently disagree with you, which is OK. I understand you disagree with me, I just don't get your reasoning. To me, if someone pulls a gun on me and says "get down on the ground" and my first action isn't getting down on the ground I'm doing something wrong. -I don't care how much they've incited me. -I don't care if they're just doing it because of the color of my skin or my orientation. -I don't care if I respect them or not. -I don't care if they're obviously in the wrong.I get down on the ground.I've been the victim of gun violence. I've been been the victim of a home invasion and forced down on my living room floor at gunpoint. You know what I did? Exactly what they told me to. It may or may not have saved my life, but again, to me it was common sense. What is your reasoning for disagreeing with me? The opposing argument to mine is: Have a gun pointed at you; not listen to what you are being told by the person holding it. How in the hell can anyone say that's the thing you should do? I think the point he's trying to make is that sometimes you have to disobey the guy with the gun if there's an unfair institutionalized system at play and you're willing to put the bigger issue of addressing that inequality above your own life/safety.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,366
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Aug 14, 2014 12:57:12 GMT -5
I understand what you're saying, I guess I just vehemently disagree with you, which is OK. I understand you disagree with me, I just don't get your reasoning. To me, if someone pulls a gun on me and says "get down on the ground" and my first action isn't getting down on the ground I'm doing something wrong. -I don't care how much they've incited me. -I don't care if they're just doing it because of the color of my skin or my orientation. -I don't care if I respect them or not. -I don't care if they're obviously in the wrong.I get down on the ground.I've been the victim of gun violence. I've been been the victim of a home invasion and forced down on my living room floor at gunpoint. You know what I did? Exactly what they told me to. It may or may not have saved my life, but again, to me it was common sense. What is your reasoning for disagreeing with me? The opposing argument to mine is: Have a gun pointed at you; not listen to what you are being told by the person holding it. How in the hell can anyone say that's the thing you should do? Please bear in mind that eyewitness accounts suggest that the cop started assaulting the kid, pulled out his gun during that assault and shot the kid, shot at the kid as he tried to get away from the cop shooting at him, and then shot the kid several times as he tried to surrender. At what point was the kid supposed to respect the risk the gun represented? It appears that might not have gotten the chance.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 13:02:19 GMT -5
I understand you disagree with me, I just don't get your reasoning. To me, if someone pulls a gun on me and says "get down on the ground" and my first action isn't getting down on the ground I'm doing something wrong. -I don't care how much they've incited me. -I don't care if they're just doing it because of the color of my skin or my orientation. -I don't care if I respect them or not. -I don't care if they're obviously in the wrong.I get down on the ground.I've been the victim of gun violence. I've been been the victim of a home invasion and forced down on my living room floor at gunpoint. You know what I did? Exactly what they told me to. It may or may not have saved my life, but again, to me it was common sense. What is your reasoning for disagreeing with me? The opposing argument to mine is: Have a gun pointed at you; not listen to what you are being told by the person holding it. How in the hell can anyone say that's the thing you should do? I think the point he's trying to make is that sometimes you have to disobey the guy with the gun if there's an unfair institutionalized system at play and you're willing to put the bigger issue of addressing that inequality above your own life/safety. You NEVER have to disobey the guy with the gun. EVER. Not if you value your own safety at all. That line of thinking is just going to get more people killed. The time to make a stand isn't when there's a gun in your face. The time to make a stand is BEFORE there's a gun in your face. Otherwise you're making yourself a martyr.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 13:03:38 GMT -5
I think the point he's trying to make is that sometimes you have to disobey the guy with the gun if there's an unfair institutionalized system at play and you're willing to put the bigger issue of addressing that inequality above your own life/safety. You NEVER have to disobey the guy with the gun. EVER. Not if you value your own safety at all. That line of thinking is just going to get more people killed. The time to make a stand isn't when there's a gun in your face. The time to make a stand is BEFORE there's a gun in your face. Otherwise you're making yourself a martyr. History disagrees with you.
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 14, 2014 13:11:29 GMT -5
I suggest an alternative approach
To seriously re-evaluate how people armed with guns act around those who are unarmed (see: Trayvon)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 13:27:23 GMT -5
I suggest an alternative approach To seriously re-evaluate how people armed with guns act around those who are unarmed (see: Trayvon) I wasn't specifically talking about Mike Brown or Trayvon Martin, just towards the way we act in general. Yeah I guess I just see it differently. For example, Trayvon was beating the hell out of Zimmerman, and continued to do so until shot. I can't say that Martin wasn't profiled due to his race and I agree that Zimmerman used unnecessary force in shooting him, but if I was being beaten and had a gun I can't say I wouldn't use it. I'd like to think I wouldn't but I can't say I wouldn't so I won't argue that. I'm in the vast minority here it seems, or at least the only one willing to speak out on this side of the argument. Not that I'm on the Police or Zimmerman's side that is...
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Aug 14, 2014 14:00:43 GMT -5
I suggest an alternative approach To seriously re-evaluate how people armed with guns act around those who are unarmed (see: Trayvon) I wasn't specifically talking about Mike Brown or Trayvon Martin, just towards the way we act in general. Yeah I guess I just see it differently. For example, Trayvon was beating the hell out of Zimmerman, and continued to do so until shot. I can't say that Martin wasn't profiled due to his race and I agree that Zimmerman used unnecessary force in shooting him, but if I was being beaten and had a gun I can't say I wouldn't use it. I'd like to think I wouldn't but I can't say I wouldn't so I won't argue that. I'm in the vast minority here it seems, or at least the only one willing to speak out on this side of the argument. Not that I'm on the Police or Zimmerman's side that is... Oh, I don't argue that either of those kids could have done something different that would have not led to them getting shot. I just cannot imagine how on edge and how short my fuse might be if I had grown up subjected to the crap that most minorities in this country gets to deal with. In the case of Martin, I really do not feel that the law should allow you to use deadly force in a fight that you yourself start. In the case of Brown, there are far too many cops that are doing this sort of thing to minorities. Let's say that I was walking down the middle of the street and a cop stopped me for it. Based on my experiences I am willing to bet that I would be told that for safety's sake I need to walk on the sidewalk. I would not have "Get the f*** on the sidewalk!!" yelled at me. For that matter, police tend to react differently when whites cause trouble than when minorities do. The cops often try to talk down the white person first, then use non-lethal force, and only use lethal force if others are unquestionably endangered after those steps. With minorities they far too often shoot to kill first.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 14:10:37 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 14:15:41 GMT -5
A convicted criminal turned pro-wrestler is EXACTLY what this situation needs.
On so many levels...
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