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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Sept 1, 2014 1:01:15 GMT -5
You see this every time there's arguments over whether someone's 'qualified' to be in the Hall of Fame. Put aside the fact that it's a silly conversation to have when there's no actual criteria; but the whole crux of the statement is 'X should go in there, I mean if KOKO can get in..' 'I can't believe Y isn't in there, KOKO is in there...'
It's just unfair to the Birdman. Koko was pretty damned over boys and girls. Certainly there are bigger names yet to be inducted and such, there's no denying that. It just feels like poor Koko gets shit on as some glaring aberration when the dude was a popular midcard act.
So yeah, Koko, that guy was alright.
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Shazam
Mephisto
And then there's this ***hole...
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Post by Shazam on Sept 1, 2014 1:33:37 GMT -5
See, that's just it. He wasn't that over. He was no more over than say Zack Ryder has been. And Zack at least has held titles, where Koko's gold count was zero.
The height of Koko's career was singing Piledriver. Seriously. From being one of the PYT's pre-WWE to being midcard jobber fodder to up and coming heels, to wearing baggy pants with Owen, he never really did *anything* except have a bird flap its wings and tease the Ghostbuster before getting pinned. Can you remember a relevant Koko victory? I can't.
He is the least qualified person to be in the Hall of Fame. It was clearly done as a favor to get him a few extra bucks for indy bookings, which, I'm 1000% for. I'd much rather have the entity do something for those who need it than those that don't (i.e. Ric Flair for example. Probably the greatest wrestler ever, but his HOF entry really didn't improve his life any.)
But to state at the same time that it takes away the credibility of others who are being considered? Yeah, it does. It pretty much opens the door to every midcard jobber that was ever in the business. Case and point, how many times has he been invited back? It's not like people are clammering for him on any level.
I think as a favor to a journeyman who did a lot of good grunt work for you? Awesome idea, great to have him in the HOF. As a move to honor people in the traditional Hall of Fame sense? The worst decision WWE made about it. Just depends on what you want the HOF to be.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 1, 2014 1:37:38 GMT -5
I don't agree with that, but I also think that a hall of fame should be inclusive.
For example, I think the baseball hall of fame actually has less credibility than it could due to stuff like Pete Rose being out, Shoeless Joe Jackson, etc, over petty shit.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Sept 1, 2014 1:38:45 GMT -5
I look at it as exactly what it is, a simple honorific to say 'hey thanks'. Which is the crux of my argument. It doesn't take away any credibility because there is no criteria.
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Urethra Franklin
King Koopa
When Toronto sports teams lose, Alison Brie is sad
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Post by Urethra Franklin on Sept 1, 2014 1:47:23 GMT -5
But the thing is, there's no specific metric to define one's HoF candidacy or a list of criteria that needs to be met.
It's an entirely subjective honour (in all halls of fame, really, but WWE especially), so the fact that Koko is in and Randy Savage isn't can be attributed directly to that.
It's kind of a pointless argument, really.
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Post by Slammy Award-Winning Cannibal on Sept 1, 2014 1:53:16 GMT -5
It's very shortsighted for anyone to dismiss Koko's WWE career. He was very over with fans, had a memorable gimmick that he sold with his charisma, which made him one of the most beloved characters of the 80's. That's more than enough criteria to warrant a HOF induction.
Scores of wrestlers today wish they could be as electric as Koko B Ware was in his prime.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 2:43:35 GMT -5
I remember someone trying to make the same case for Ted DiBiase, that because HE was in, ANYONE should be able to get in.
Just...what.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Sept 1, 2014 3:12:02 GMT -5
In fairness when you compared Koko in kayfabe terms to someone like, say, Roddy Piper, there's not a great deal separating them. I mean sure Roddy main evented some major shows, but as far as titles and achivements there's not a great deal of separation.
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TGM
Hank Scorpio
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Post by TGM on Sept 1, 2014 3:16:52 GMT -5
The only HoF criteria is whether or not somebody is on good terms with WWE.
That's literally it.
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Post by Martin: #TeamBella Treasurer on Sept 1, 2014 3:22:45 GMT -5
I really feel bad for Koko when someone says that. He gets a great pop at WrestleMania 6 in Toronto. I don't think a Hall of Fame based on win/loss records and titles/achievements can be done in pro wrestling where it is all decided beforehand. Did he get over because he brought his parrot to the ring? Probably. But hes not the first or last person to catch on using a unique gimmick. Jobber or not, Koko was a national star, unlike some regional names they have inducted (some of the Von Erichs, now I feel bad saying that about them lol).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 4:53:01 GMT -5
Makes me wonder what got Koko in, how Vince or whoever made the decision.
He was an 80s midcarder, when midcarders mattered. He had about 40% to 70% crowd support (think John Cena if the negative people were silent). He had a cool bird and cool clothes. He is about 30% as charismatic as the Rock. He appeared at WrestleMania 3, 4, 6, and 8 (Was also at 7, but a dark match)
I guess that oughta do it?
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Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Sept 1, 2014 5:18:23 GMT -5
Koko is a weird case in that he was much more strongly booked in the territory days than he was in the WWF. A year before he debuted in Vince's promotion, Koko main evented Mid-South Coliseum in an NWA title match against Flair and was able to put together one helluva match (supposedly, the match was originally supposed to be Lawler, but Lawler suggested Koko instead). Koko got over with Frankie, and I loved watching the guy back in the day, but I really, really think Koko deserved better booking in the WWF because he WAS a great worker and performer.
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Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Sept 1, 2014 5:23:31 GMT -5
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Post by I'm Team Bayley and Indi on Sept 1, 2014 5:51:41 GMT -5
It's odd to me more people seem to question Koko B. Ware's inclusion in the HOF then Drew Carey.
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Shazam
Mephisto
And then there's this ***hole...
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Post by Shazam on Sept 1, 2014 8:07:49 GMT -5
Because Carey is in the "Celebrity" wing, which is basically "Hi, thanks for being a part of WWE and cross-promoting. The first year, it was for Pete Rose, then they just kept it going and realized that the pool was pretty shallow for celebs. I mean, we're one or two years away from a Snooki induction.
But, as seconded by people on here, the crux of the argument is this. If you think the hall of fame is just pretty much another lap around the track for old timers that are still around (or their kids or whatever), then Koko's induction is solid.
If you want the WWE HOF to be meaningful in the traditional sports way, as a creme de la creme sort of place, then Koko's induction is crap at best. As people have been defending him on here, there have been two things that have been mentioned:
A)He got a decent pop at a PPV. B)He wrestled Flair once.
With that criteria, about 65% of wrestlers prior to 1990 could be included at one point or another.
It's no hate against Koko as a performer, he was good times, but if you want to try and view the HOF as something that represents the best of the best, it can't be done realistically without the "Koko argument".
:-(
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Sept 1, 2014 8:24:26 GMT -5
See, that's just it. He wasn't that over. He was no more over than say Zack Ryder has been. And Zack at least has held titles, where Koko's gold count was zero. Jake Roberts' gold count was zero, too. Titles weren't handed out like candy back then. I'd say the fact that people still fondly remember Koko 20+ years since his last WWE days mean he is worthy of a spot in the Hall.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Sept 1, 2014 8:31:54 GMT -5
Koko was entertaining, memorable, good at his craft and over, both before, during and after his WWE stint, that's all you really need to be considered a success in wrestling and is more than enough to make him worthy of an induction into the hall of fame of a staged sport. He wasn't a big enough name to we worthy of headlining a HOF ceremony, but very few people are.
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Kris
Unicron
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Post by Kris on Sept 1, 2014 9:10:17 GMT -5
In a company where few ever even get a chance to work for, Koko B. Ware was a beloved undercard baby face there for eight years. As mentioned before, he is a fondly remembered character 20+ years after his active television career ended. No questions asked Hall of Fame worthy.
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Sept 1, 2014 9:22:01 GMT -5
People still remember him fondly that's good enough for me
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Post by Manute Bol on Sept 1, 2014 9:33:25 GMT -5
See, that's just it. He wasn't that over. He was no more over than say Zack Ryder has been. Just quoting this because it's absolutely hilarious that people out there might actually believe this. And Zack at least has held titles, where Koko's gold count was zero. Jake Roberts, Jimmy Snuka, Bam Bam Bigelow, Paul Orndorff, George Steele, Vader, Junkyard Dog, Dusty Rhodes, Harley Race, Jim Duggan and countless others never held gold in the WWE either. You know who has? Heath Slater, Rene Dupree, Ezekiel Jackson, and one of Godfather's hos. Championships don't mean much as far as Hall of Fame credentials go in a fake sport. He is the least qualified person to be in the Hall of Fame. Drew Carey? It was clearly done as a favor to get him a few extra bucks for indy bookings Oh yes clearly that was the case. Please continue to educate us all with these insightful facts you have made up.
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