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Post by Joe Neglia on Sept 13, 2014 6:51:22 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/channel/UCWXxP_rvXryBPpjIw7Dl9Tg/videosChicago Film Archives has uploaded over 100 matches from Fred Kohler's old NWA territory promotion to Youtube in the past couple of days. A great assortment of matches including Lou Thesz, Buddy Rogers, Gorgeous George, Haystacks Calhoun, the Crusher, Bruiser, Verne Gagne and more. Pretty neat stuff.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Sept 13, 2014 11:56:20 GMT -5
Wow, f***ing awesome! Any idea what the copyright is on this stuff? Public domain I would assume, but wanted to check.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,955 
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Post by chazraps on Sept 13, 2014 12:01:15 GMT -5
HAYSTACK CALHOUN VS BUDDY ROGERS!
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Sept 13, 2014 12:02:02 GMT -5
HAYSTACK CALHOUN VS BUDDY ROGERS! Yeah, needless to say this is how I will be spending my Saturday  |
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,955
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Post by chazraps on Sept 13, 2014 12:05:40 GMT -5
Great that we appear to finally have a full Penny Banner match as well.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Sept 13, 2014 12:13:37 GMT -5
Wow, f***ing awesome! Any idea what the copyright is on this stuff? Public domain I would assume, but wanted to check. I think the Chicago Historical Society owns the copyright. My guess is all of this comes from Fred Kohler's promotion after he resigned from the NWA in 1950. Therefore the footage would be outside of any deals WWE made for a film library. |
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Post by Slammy Award-Winning Cannibal on Sept 13, 2014 12:32:01 GMT -5
Can anyone smarter than I shed some light on if/how WWE can purchase this library of matches? I mean, wow, tremendous quality. This stuff was MADE for the WWE Network.
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Post by Martin: #TeamBella Treasurer on Sept 13, 2014 12:46:48 GMT -5
Interesting. I recently bought this DVD a few months ago (it was only 5.99) but not had the time to watch it. It doesn't mention a specific promotion so I was wondering if it was something like this, a television network or motion picture company happened to own wrestling footage amongst their archives and released it:  Matches on the DVD for anyone interested are: NWA World Champion Pat O'Connor vs. Buddy Rogers in a Two out of Three Falls Match NWA Women's Champion June Byers vs. Betty Hawkins Dick the Bruiser vs. Pepper Gomez Antonino Rocca & Miguel Perez vs. Skull Murphy & Kurt Von Hess Haystacks Calhoun vs. Killer Brooks Killer Kowalski vs. Edouard Carpentier Antonino Rocca, Miguel Perez & Rikki Starr vs. Dr Jerry Graham & The Killer Kangaroos Antonino Rocca vs. Johnny Valentine Gorgeous George vs. Jessie James in a Two out of Three Falls Match I thought with the amount of Rocca that it might have been New York but surely all that footage would be Vince-owned. Or could it be Chicago area?? |
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Post by Martin: #TeamBella Treasurer on Sept 13, 2014 12:53:13 GMT -5
Can anyone smarter than I shed some light on if/how WWE can purchase this library of matches? I mean, wow, tremendous quality. This stuff was MADE for the WWE Network. I think WWE could just go to them and offer a price, and depending on how valuable the archivers think the material is, could sell them it. I imagine though that WWE would have to make a good case for it, the society is wanting people to see this footage I'm assuming, and for free. WWE would have to guarantee that it won't stay locked up in their library too long. |
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,955
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Post by chazraps on Sept 13, 2014 14:01:36 GMT -5
Interesting. I recently bought this DVD a few months ago (it was only 5.99) but not had the time to watch it. It doesn't mention a specific promotion so I was wondering if it was something like this, a television network or motion picture company happened to own wrestling footage amongst their archives and released it: Matches on the DVD for anyone interested are: NWA World Champion Pat O'Connor vs. Buddy Rogers in a Two out of Three Falls Match NWA Women's Champion June Byers vs. Betty Hawkins Dick the Bruiser vs. Pepper Gomez Antonino Rocca & Miguel Perez vs. Skull Murphy & Kurt Von Hess Haystacks Calhoun vs. Killer Brooks Killer Kowalski vs. Edouard Carpentier Antonino Rocca, Miguel Perez & Rikki Starr vs. Dr Jerry Graham & The Killer Kangaroos Antonino Rocca vs. Johnny ValentineGorgeous George vs. Jessie James in a Two out of Three Falls Match I thought with the amount of Rocca that it might have been New York but surely all that footage would be Vince-owned. Or could it be Chicago area?? You are in for a treat. The nuances and crowd control of Johnny Valentine is the stuff of legends. |
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Phil Parent
El Dandy
Your Favourite Teacher
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Phil Parent on Sept 13, 2014 14:38:21 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=PImHQuyjLNYHistorical match: Carpentier VS Thesz in Chicago, rematch from their controversial June match in which Carpentier beat Thesz for the NWA Title only for the NWA to reverse the decision. Many promoters (including Kohler by the looks of things) wanted Carpentier as champ. So the NWA kept the situation intentionally hazy so that those promoters could book Carpentier as champ, and others book Thesz as champ. But Eddie Quinn, the Montreal promoter, and some other promoters, didn't want two champs, they just wanted Carpentier as the real, full fledged world champion, but St-Louis controlled the NWA and they didn't want that, they wanted their guy, Lou Thesz. Following this very match... - Eddie Quinn breaks away from the NWA and takes Carpentier and his title with him. Many territories point to Carpentier and say "That's the champ" and recognize him as the world champion. They book him to put over their local ace and make that guy THEIR world champion. - Verne Gagne beats Carpentier for the belt in Omaha, which creates the embryo of the AWA. This was the beginning of the end of the hegemony of the NWA, within five years of this match, both AWA and WWWF had broken away from the Alliance to become 2/3 of the big 3 in wrestling of the next 20-25 years. - Promoters start to change the way see what draws in a wrestling match. Here's a guy doing flips, he was the first one. He draws immensely, people are wow'd by him. So suddenly, it's not only former amateur wrestlers who can be champion pro wrestlers, it's acrobats and gymnasts too. - Carpentier returns home and is proclaimed the International Wrestling champion, replacing the former Montreal Athletic Commission title or whatever it was. He starts defending the belt in his town as a face in distress being victimized by monster heels, a model to be replicated by many many future Montreal top faces, from Rick Martel to Sami Zayn. Montreal starts to be isolationist, insofar that they are in effect an outlaw organisation actively trying to keep American promotions from running their territory. This remained true for the most part until Vince took over in the mid 80's, and Jacques Rougeau Jr. is still isolationist to this day, gotta give him points for historical continuity.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Sept 13, 2014 19:56:21 GMT -5
Interesting. I recently bought this DVD a few months ago (it was only 5.99) but not had the time to watch it. It doesn't mention a specific promotion so I was wondering if it was something like this, a television network or motion picture company happened to own wrestling footage amongst their archives and released it: Matches on the DVD for anyone interested are: NWA World Champion Pat O'Connor vs. Buddy Rogers in a Two out of Three Falls Match NWA Women's Champion June Byers vs. Betty Hawkins Dick the Bruiser vs. Pepper Gomez Antonino Rocca & Miguel Perez vs. Skull Murphy & Kurt Von Hess Haystacks Calhoun vs. Killer Brooks Killer Kowalski vs. Edouard Carpentier Antonino Rocca, Miguel Perez & Rikki Starr vs. Dr Jerry Graham & The Killer Kangaroos Antonino Rocca vs. Johnny Valentine Gorgeous George vs. Jessie James in a Two out of Three Falls Match I thought with the amount of Rocca that it might have been New York but surely all that footage would be Vince-owned. Or could it be Chicago area?? Definitely stuff from the same time period; the quality of the footage may be more lacking. Ownership of footage that far back would be very difficult to discern, but more than likely no longer have any. Copyright laws were different, and copyright renewals weren't automatic; you had to regularly renew them yourself or you lost the rights to your stuff. Televised wrestling footage, it's doubtful anyone bothered to have them copyrighted to begin with. They were one-and-done deals. Beyond that, the only likely way the original promoter or his/her heirs could claim ownership now is physically. It wasn't until the somewhat modern era - late 70s or so - that promotions began to even somewhat realize "hey, this might be of use on day later on" towards their old footage, and even then it was only a few; most were erasing and reusing tapes from one show to the next to save money. |
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Sept 13, 2014 20:10:27 GMT -5
The announcer is hilarious in his dry sense of humor
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El Pollo Guerrera
Grimlock
His name has chicken in it, and he is good at makin' .gifs, so that's cool.
Status: Runner
Posts: 14,710
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Post by El Pollo Guerrera on Sept 14, 2014 0:19:51 GMT -5
Just watched the Lone Eagle/Great Jojo match... the commentary is sooooooo politically incorrect, especially the last line.
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Post by Super Nintenjoe KBD on Sept 14, 2014 6:05:14 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=PImHQuyjLNYHistorical match: Carpentier VS Thesz in Chicago, rematch from their controversial June match in which Carpentier beat Thesz for the NWA Title only for the NWA to reverse the decision. Many promoters (including Kohler by the looks of things) wanted Carpentier as champ. So the NWA kept the situation intentionally hazy so that those promoters could book Carpentier as champ, and others book Thesz as champ. But Eddie Quinn, the Montreal promoter, and some other promoters, didn't want two champs, they just wanted Carpentier as the real, full fledged world champion, but St-Louis controlled the NWA and they didn't want that, they wanted their guy, Lou Thesz. Following this very match... - Eddie Quinn breaks away from the NWA and takes Carpentier and his title with him. Many territories point to Carpentier and say "That's the champ" and recognize him as the world champion. They book him to put over their local ace and make that guy THEIR world champion. - Verne Gagne beats Carpentier for the belt in Omaha, which creates the embryo of the AWA. This was the beginning of the end of the hegemony of the NWA, within five years of this match, both AWA and WWWF had broken away from the Alliance to become 2/3 of the big 3 in wrestling of the next 20-25 years. - Promoters start to change the way see what draws in a wrestling match. Here's a guy doing flips, he was the first one. He draws immensely, people are wow'd by him. So suddenly, it's not only former amateur wrestlers who can be champion pro wrestlers, it's acrobats and gymnasts too. - Carpentier returns home and is proclaimed the International Wrestling champion, replacing the former Montreal Athletic Commission title or whatever it was. He starts defending the belt in his town as a face in distress being victimized by monster heels, a model to be replicated by many many future Montreal top faces, from Rick Martel to Sami Zayn. Montreal starts to be isolationist, insofar that they are in effect an outlaw organisation actively trying to keep American promotions from running their territory. This remained true for the most part until Vince took over in the mid 80's, and Jacques Rougeau Jr. is still isolationist to this day, gotta give him points for historical continuity. I f***ing love posts like these, thanks |
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Post by Super Nintenjoe KBD on Sept 14, 2014 6:10:28 GMT -5
The announcer is hilarious in his dry sense of humor It's great, Im watching Pat O'Connor vs Legs Langevin and he says, about O'Conner: "he's an old, old stand-by here at the Amphitheater oh these past 30,000 years, even Fred Lederburn (sp?) who's getting almost as bald as I am over the years. *chuckles*" |
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Post by Joe Neglia on Sept 14, 2014 7:12:49 GMT -5
The announcer is hilarious in his dry sense of humor Best I can figure, the announcer (Russ Davis) is responsible for this haul. All of this footage comes from his collection, which was bequeathed to the CFA at some point. They've been working to restore it for some time, and apparently there's more. |
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Post by Joe Neglia on Sept 19, 2014 20:12:54 GMT -5
Been watching 2-4 matches a day. Some are really outstanding. The Penny Banner match is pretty awesome, "for its time" or not. Haystacks challenging Buddy Rogers for the NWA title has a really interesting finish, which appears to be a massive Botchamania contender. And Ricki Starr is f'ing hilarious.
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