Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2017 16:54:10 GMT -5
Why wouldn't they go with the race issue? Boston has notoriously been a very racist city. The NBA for the most part is a black sport, Bird was deemed the white hope not only for Boston, but for the NBA because now white people can enjoy the sport b/c one of their own is the best player in the league. And his rival just happened to be African American. All of the ingredients are there to talk about race. Race is a factor, but after OJ: Made in America, I'm kinda worn out on discussing it, to be honest.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 15, 2017 16:59:05 GMT -5
Why wouldn't they go with the race issue? Boston has notoriously been a very racist city. The NBA for the most part is a black sport, Bird was deemed the white hope not only for Boston, but for the NBA because now white people can enjoy the sport b/c one of their own is the best player in the league. And his rival just happened to be African American. All of the ingredients are there to talk about race. Race is a factor, but after OJ: Made in America, I'm kinda worn out on discussing it, to be honest. And besides that they cut corner on the race topics. Yes they addressed Bill Russell being seen as the "angry black man" but they didn't go all in discussing his relationship with Boston but only his relationship with Red
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
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Post by BRV on Jun 15, 2017 18:49:16 GMT -5
Race is the favorite fallback subject for "30 for 30". They've tackled a number of issues over the course of the seven-plus years of documentaries that have aired, but none with more frequency - deserved or not - than race.
Several documentaries have had some form of racial discussions in them. The U, No Crossover: The Trial of Allen Iverson, The 16th Man, Straight Outta L.A., June 17th 1994, The Fab Five, Goose, Broke, Ghosts of Ole Miss, Free Spirits, Requiem for the Big East, Bad Boys, The U Part 2, The Gospel According to Mac, Fantastic Lies, Catholics vs. Convicts, O.J. Made in America, and now Celtics/Lakers: Best of Enemies. Now, it's needed in some - you can't exactly tell a story of post-apartheid South Africa or integration-era Ole Miss without it being almost exclusively about race - but it just felt clunky and shoehorned into others.
Like, yeah, race relations played a big role in the career of Bill Russell, Boston in the 1970s, and the Bird-Magic debate, but there was no need for it to completely dominate the documentary the way it did. It could have been a background subject but instead the focus colors weren't green and gold, they were black and white.
All that aside, the documentary was kind of weak. I tuned out about midway through the third hour and considering I'm a pre-eminent Boston sports fan, that should tell you most of what you need to know. I felt like they weren't touching on any new ground and the Bird-Magic era stuff felt like rehashes of documentaries I've already seen a million times over. I would have preferred to see the first hour be dedicated to the battles of the 1960s, the second hour-and-a-half about the 1980s, and maybe the final half-hour dedicated to the resurgence of the rivalry in the late-2000s.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 15, 2017 18:58:29 GMT -5
Race is the favorite fallback subject for "30 for 30". They've tackled a number of issues over the course of the seven-plus years of documentaries that have aired, but none with more frequency - deserved or not - than race. Several documentaries have had some form of racial discussions in them. The U, No Crossover: The Trial of Allen Iverson, The 16th Man, Straight Outta L.A., June 17th 1994, The Fab Five, Goose, Broke, Ghosts of Ole Miss, Free Spirits, Requiem for the Big East, Bad Boys, The U Part 2, The Gospel According to Mac, Fantastic Lies, Catholics vs. Convicts, O.J. Made in America, and now Celtics/Lakers: Best of Enemies. Now, it's needed in some - you can't exactly tell a story of post-apartheid South Africa or integration-era Ole Miss without it being almost exclusively about race - but it just felt clunky and shoehorned into others. Like, yeah, race relations played a big role in the career of Bill Russell, Boston in the 1970s, and the Bird-Magic debate, but there was no need for it to completely dominate the documentary the way it did. It could have been a background subject but instead the focus colors weren't green and gold, they were black and white. All that aside, the documentary was kind of weak. I tuned out about midway through the third hour and considering I'm a pre-eminent Boston sports fan, that should tell you most of what you need to know. I felt like they weren't touching on any new ground and the Bird-Magic era stuff felt like rehashes of documentaries I've already seen a million times over. I would have preferred to see the first hour be dedicated to the battles of the 1960s, the second hour-and-a-half about the 1980s, and maybe the final half-hour dedicated to the resurgence of the rivalry in the late-2000s. Yea this was pretty much meh. The first two parts were okay because it got into the 60s a bit and was good to hear about some of that. Too bad Wilt isn't alive anymore to comment on how he felt at the time because he was labeled a choker and selfish player for not being able to defeat Boston Once we got to the 80s they treaded the same ground we have heard and the only entertaining aspect of it was M.L. Carr being a major shit talker still to those day and getting Magic and the other guys thoughts on their mindset at the time. I came in expecting a full history of Boston/L.A but we got Magic/Bird story part 100. Also as i've said in this thread before Ice Cube and Donnie Wahlberg were turnoffs for this. NWA Ice Cube is dead so I hated him having to put on his ghetto accent while Donnie tried to Boston it up as much as John Cena. That along killed my replay value in this as I hated the homer centric nature of it. Thank God Bill Simmons wasn't involved because you would of had to stop him from sucking his own meat on the 80s Celtics.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2017 21:47:51 GMT -5
I'm surprised so far they haven't talked about how the Magic vs Bird feud saved the NBA. They touched a little bit on it, but the NBA was in a shit place before Magic and Bird entered the league. They had shit attendance, shit ratings, and weren't moving merchandise, and when Magic vs Bird started, that all changed and everybody reaped the benefits. They've gotta mention in the final part, that had it not been for Bird and Magic, there wouldn't have been an NBA for Jordan, or LeBron. The frickin' Finals were shown on tape delay. Imagine that in this day and age. "Yeah, Game 7 starts at 7:30pm. But CBS can only squeeze it in after your local news airs at 10:30. Gotta leave that episode of Trapper John M.D. in its prime slot."
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Post by MrElijah on Jun 15, 2017 22:21:26 GMT -5
Count me as another that felt, "Same Old, Bird vs. Magic." Don't get me wrong but we all know Larry's Basketball IQ utterly insane and Magic is the Point Guard Kingpin. And holy shit, LA ran the Western Conference in the 80s. Imagine if the Rockets don't win the West in '81 & '86.
But they really should go into how far the Celtics/Lakers rivalry streched and how they just denied Elgin Baylor any satisfaction.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 15:53:15 GMT -5
My brother and I picked sides in the Celtics/Lakers rivalry.
He liked Magic and the whole Showtime aspect, therefore he was a Lakers guy. I liked how the Celtics went about business (and to this day Larry is my all-time favorite).
When both guys stepped off of the court for good, our childhood/adolescence changed.
He is still a Laker fan; I on the other hand, maybe watched a couple handful of games since. Just haven't cared as much.
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unc40
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,633
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Post by unc40 on Jun 20, 2017 12:29:04 GMT -5
ESPN doesn't discuss race they discuss African-Americans. How many shows on ESPN have been about Hispanics, Jews, Asian-Americans or Native-Americans? Even when they do a show about African-Americans it's about the Fab Five, The U or some team that's main contribution was celebrating excessively and hanging out with hip hop artists. Very little on Jackie Robinson (except on baseball opening day), 1966 Texas Western basketball team or Jim Brown and nothing at all on Larry Doby or the 1963 Loyola-Chicago basketball team.
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Post by burdette25159 on Jun 27, 2017 11:43:10 GMT -5
First episode of the 30 for 30 podcast is up! The Trials of Dan and Dave
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Post by Brandon Walsh is Insane. on Jun 27, 2017 20:18:02 GMT -5
First episode of the 30 for 30 podcast is up! The Trials of Dan and Dave Thanks!
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andrew8798
FANatic
on 24/7 this month
Posts: 106,084
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Post by andrew8798 on Jul 1, 2017 21:21:45 GMT -5
Actually thought the episode was kind of short
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Post by burdette25159 on Jul 4, 2017 10:48:40 GMT -5
Episode 2 of the 30 for 30 podcast is up: Yankees suck
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Post by burdette25159 on Jul 6, 2017 12:20:20 GMT -5
Two weeks from tonight, 30 for 30 will present on ESPN the story of George Best: All By Himself before the Manchester United vs Manchester city game
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2017 18:48:44 GMT -5
Watching the Mike and the Mad Dog doc tonight because nothing else is on tonight.
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Post by Cyno on Jul 13, 2017 19:17:03 GMT -5
Man, these old publicity photos of Francesa with a mustache are bizarre looking. He looks like a completely different person.
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Post by horsemen4ever on Jul 13, 2017 19:29:35 GMT -5
Let's see if they mention the Cory Lidle incident.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Jul 13, 2017 20:00:08 GMT -5
Eh, if you don't live in New York or never listened to these guys, I don't know this doc was very interesting.
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Post by madness50 on Jul 13, 2017 22:51:32 GMT -5
It is really funny that the Giants won three World Series titles after Mike and the Mad Dog ended their show. As someone who has his own sports talk show, those two are pioneers in this field.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2017 10:33:55 GMT -5
Two weeks from tonight, 30 for 30 will present on ESPN the story of George Best: All By Himself before the Manchester United vs Manchester city game Imagine how soccer history could have changed in the US had George Best signed with the Cosmos because they were having no luck getting Pelè. (Best shuffled his feet and went AWOL at the contract signing. "Couldn't deal with that rat race." Two years later, he signed with the LA Aztecs.)
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Jul 26, 2017 17:37:28 GMT -5
The Flair one will air November 7th
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