gr1990
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,485
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Post by gr1990 on Dec 20, 2014 9:29:29 GMT -5
In a 5 minute match, this was the full list of moves:
One of those school bully trips where you get on all fours behind someone and they fall over you Butt slap Kick Headbutt Knees to the chest Knee in the back resthold Hair pull takedown Head to the buckle Corner elbow strikes Punch Rope choke Small package Clothesline Hair pull stretch Boots in corner Leg sweep Back elbow DilEmma Mafia kick Roundhouse PTO
I know some of the best matches ever seen have been composed of very basic moves, but this sucked, as did their equally move-deficient match on Superstars a few weeks ago. In terms of moveset, these two have gone from being technically sound workers on NXT to Kevin Nash on the main roster. They must be being told to hold back, there's no other explanation.
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Post by mizzziggler on Dec 20, 2014 9:32:30 GMT -5
They are being told to hold back. It sucks.
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Jiren
Patti Mayonnaise
Hearts Bayformers
Posts: 35,163
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Post by Jiren on Dec 20, 2014 9:36:21 GMT -5
They should just drop a huge chunk of the Divas division from the main show and make it an NXT thing, It's clear Vince, Dunn & (Un)creative don't give a tom tit and just treat it like a joke.
At least in NXT they'll be able to perform how they want.
They can still have the Total Divas on RAW and have their crap since that's what they do care about
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Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
Posts: 6,420
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Post by Abdullah on Dec 20, 2014 9:37:37 GMT -5
What I took away from it is, even for a match that sucked and meant nothing, Paige was great at playing to the crowd and the reactions were very solid.
If WWE would let it, the women's division would be one of the highlights easily. I remember right here on FAN, people cited the Chickbusters feud as a main highlight when it was happening.
But bad booking makes everyone look bad. It's not gender-specific.
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Post by Rolent Tex on Dec 20, 2014 10:37:00 GMT -5
What I took away from it is, even for a match that sucked and meant nothing, Paige was great at playing to the crowd and the reactions were very solid. If WWE would let it, the women's division would be one of the highlights easily. I remember right here on FAN, people cited the Chickbusters feud as a main highlight when it was happening. But bad booking makes everyone look bad. It's not gender-specific. Remember when Finlay was helping train the ladies and someone...somewhere...on creative gave a shit about booking the division competently?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 10:45:15 GMT -5
The match was fine and Paige looked great. Making a moves list and using as evidence that a match sucked is silly.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 10:48:10 GMT -5
What I took away from it is, even for a match that sucked and meant nothing, Paige was great at playing to the crowd and the reactions were very solid. If WWE would let it, the women's division would be one of the highlights easily. I remember right here on FAN, people cited the Chickbusters feud as a main highlight when it was happening. But bad booking makes everyone look bad. It's not gender-specific. Remember when Finlay was helping train the ladies and someone...somewhere...on creative gave a shit about booking the division competently? And now they have a trainer who is just as good, if not better, and no one gives a shit about them.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 10:49:51 GMT -5
You can't judge the quality of a story by how many different words it used.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 10:50:03 GMT -5
The match was fine and Paige looked great. Making a moves list and using as evidence that a match sucked is silly. I agree with a bit of your point, but OP is right too. No slams, no holds, no suplexes... It was just punch-kick-headbutt. It wouldn't have hurt the match to have a little bit of wrestling in it, ya know?
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Post by Rolent Tex on Dec 20, 2014 11:10:01 GMT -5
Remember when Finlay was helping train the ladies and someone...somewhere...on creative gave a shit about booking the division competently? And now they have a trainer who is just as good, if not better, and no one gives a shit about them. Seems to be the theme with WWE. If someone books something great they mess with the formula.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 20, 2014 11:41:39 GMT -5
You can't judge the quality of a story by how many different words it used. Agrees
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 12:09:31 GMT -5
The match was fine and Paige looked great. Making a moves list and using as evidence that a match sucked is silly. I agree with a bit of your point, but OP is right too. No slams, no holds, no suplexes... It was just punch-kick-headbutt. It wouldn't have hurt the match to have a little bit of wrestling in it, ya know? Yeah you and the OP are right. I'm a BIT of a Paige fanboy. I enjoyed the match because I enjoyed the chemistry they had in terms of working the crowd. And the moves they did all looked good though it was a pretty basic affair. If Kelly Kelly and Maryse had that same match it would've flat out sucked. I'm cool with basic if its well executed. It wasn't a barnburner NXT womens' match by any means. I guess we can't expect that all the time.
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gr1990
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,485
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Post by gr1990 on Dec 20, 2014 12:21:25 GMT -5
You can't judge the quality of a story by how many different words it used. Hence my point about many great matches not having much move variety or anything technically complex in them. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't the worst thing I've ever seen, because they're good workers they do even the basic shit better than most and Paige always gives good show as a heel, I just meant it's a sad indictment of how they're being held back, their entire NXT movesets have been taken away from them. You can just picture Kevin Dunn or whoever walking up to them snickering with a semi and being all like 'and maybe you could, hur hur, slap each other on the ass, hur hur.' There wasn't a single suplex or slam or top rope move in the match, and NXT has shown both girls have plenty of those things in their arsenal. Only having five minutes isn't an excuse for no one doing a single move that isn't triggered by the strike button on a video game. No one can possibly say it's even close to the best these two could do with five minutes, and I doubt the simplicity of it was their own choice. It's starting to seem like 'being a competent wrestler with a varied moveset' is Nikki Bella's gimmick so no other Divas are allowed to do it. I'm not bashing Paige or Emma here, just whoever's apparently telling them 'don't be too good.'
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gr1990
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,485
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Post by gr1990 on Dec 20, 2014 12:27:26 GMT -5
What I took away from it is, even for a match that sucked and meant nothing, Paige was great at playing to the crowd and the reactions were very solid. If WWE would let it, the women's division would be one of the highlights easily. I remember right here on FAN, people cited the Chickbusters feud as a main highlight when it was happening. But bad booking makes everyone look bad. It's not gender-specific. It's more than bad booking though. Imagine if someone said to Tyson Kidd 'in this match, you can only punch, kick and do restholds, do not, I repeat do not leave your feet at any time while you're on offense. Oh, and slap the other guy's ass at some point.' It just wouldn't happen. I'm sure wrestlers both male and female are constantly being told not to do things, but I don't see any male wrestler having their moveset diminished to just the most basic of strikes.
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,627
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Post by cjh on Dec 20, 2014 12:54:56 GMT -5
It has everything to do with how much time is given and how high-profile the match is. The agents put together matches totally differently given those circumstances. The Divas noticeably incorporate bigger spots in their PPV matches for the Divas title than they do on Raw.
Same is true for the guys. If they have a match on Raw that will start and end all in one segment, they're not going to do anywhere near what they would if they had more time.
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Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
Posts: 6,420
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Post by Abdullah on Dec 20, 2014 13:12:20 GMT -5
It has everything to do with how much time is given and how high-profile the match is. The agents put together matches totally differently given those circumstances. The Divas noticeably incorporate bigger spots in their PPV matches for the Divas title than they do on Raw. Explain the last PPV. Or AJ and Paige's Hell in a Cell bout. Or the weird, slow fourteen minutes at Survivor Series where they built up Paige as a sole survivor to the crowd's applause... only to have her run away. They sometimes do slightly more on PPV, like Night of Champions which was an okay match, but let's not pretend the gap is that wide. WWE's match layout has been way off this year, very safe and forgettable, for both superstars and divas. Half of MOTY lists is rightfully populated by NXT Special matches.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 20, 2014 13:22:23 GMT -5
Punk's interview provided the best explanation IMO. If Vince is horrified by the prospect of women in MMA, it sheds light on why WWE women's wrestling is relatively timid. He probably feels that the audience doesn't want to see hard hitting women's wrestling, which also explains why things are so different on NXT
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,627
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Post by cjh on Dec 20, 2014 13:42:09 GMT -5
It has everything to do with how much time is given and how high-profile the match is. The agents put together matches totally differently given those circumstances. The Divas noticeably incorporate bigger spots in their PPV matches for the Divas title than they do on Raw. Explain the last PPV. Or AJ and Paige's Hell in a Cell bout. Or the weird, slow fourteen minutes at Survivor Series where they built up Paige as a sole survivor to the crowd's applause... only to have her run away. They sometimes do slightly more on PPV, like Night of Champions which was an okay match, but let's not pretend the gap is that wide. WWE's match layout has been way off this year, very safe and forgettable, for both superstars and divas. Half of MOTY lists is rightfully populated by NXT Special matches. I was strictly referring to how I think it would be more accurate to say that some of the more impressive, impactful spots WWE wrestlers can do are saved for bigger, higher-profile matches rather than it being a case of them being forbidden. If they were forbidden, they would literally never be done in a WWE ring. Creative doing things like book a heel in a sympathetic way is another matter.
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Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
Posts: 6,420
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Post by Abdullah on Dec 20, 2014 13:54:50 GMT -5
Explain the last PPV. Or AJ and Paige's Hell in a Cell bout. Or the weird, slow fourteen minutes at Survivor Series where they built up Paige as a sole survivor to the crowd's applause... only to have her run away. They sometimes do slightly more on PPV, like Night of Champions which was an okay match, but let's not pretend the gap is that wide. WWE's match layout has been way off this year, very safe and forgettable, for both superstars and divas. Half of MOTY lists is rightfully populated by NXT Special matches. I was strictly referring to how I think it would be more accurate to say that some of the more impressive, impactful spots WWE wrestlers can do are saved for bigger, higher-profile matches rather than it being a case of them being forbidden. If they were forbidden, they would literally never be done in a WWE ring. Creative doing things like book a heel in a sympathetic way is another matter. I can agree with that. I just feel like we don't see the divas do... anything on TV or on PPV anymore. They were a bit more permissive last year.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 15:13:56 GMT -5
Hey JBL managed to hold the world title almost a year, here would be his list of moves during a PPV main event.
forearm to the back forearm to the back forearm to the back forearm to the back forearm to the back forearm to the back forearm to the back forearm to the back forearm to the back stomp punch punch punch in the corner sleeper hold forearm to the back forearm to the back forearm to the back forearm to the back interference Clothesline
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