The Three Musketeers vs. The Four Pillars vs. HBK/Bret

[MrElijah]

These 9 men, depending on who you ask, were the best wrestlers on the planet.


So out of these 9 how do y'all rank 'em?

[Racksman]

I have literally never heard of the terms Three Musketeers or Four Pillars to describe any group of men in wrestling. Explain plz?

[Fundertaker]

Dec 22, 2014 18:27:56 GMT -5 Racksman said:

I have literally never heard of the terms Three Musketeers or Four Pillars to describe any group of men in wrestling. Explain plz?

The Three Musketeers were the three main wrestlers in New Japan during the 90's: Shinya Hashimoto, Keiji Muto and Masahiro Chono.

The Four Pillars/Kings Of Heavan were their counter-part in All Japan: Mitusharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada, Kenta Kobashi and Akira Taue.

[MrElijah]

Dec 22, 2014 18:27:56 GMT -5 Racksman said:

I have literally never heard of the terms Three Musketeers or Four Pillars to describe any group of men in wrestling. Explain plz?

The Three musketeers were NJPW's Masahiro Chono, Keji Mutoh aka The Great Muta & Shinya Hashimoto

The Four Pillars of Heaven of AJPW were Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi, Toshiaki Kawada, and Akira Taue

[Deleted]

Dec 22, 2014 18:27:56 GMT -5 Racksman said:

I have literally never heard of the terms Three Musketeers or Four Pillars to describe any group of men in wrestling. Explain plz?

Three Musketeers were the 3 main stars of 90's New Japan Pro Wrestling: Masahiro Chono, Keiji Mutoh/The Great Muta, and Shinya Hashimoto:




The Four Pillars of All Japan Pro Wrestling were the 4 main stars of puroresu scene in the 90's:

Mitsuharu Misawa:




Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada:





Kenta Kobashi:

[Deleted]

The Japanese guys I'm mainly familiar with their early 90's work, but here goes:

1. Misawa
2. Kawada
3. Mutoh
4. Michaels
5. Kobashi
6. Chono
7. Hitman
8. Taue
9. Hashimoto

[Hanzo]

Haven't watched much Japanese wrestling at all, but from my understanding Misawa and Kawada have had some battle over in Japan.

[EyeofTyr]

For me, it'd go something like...

Mutoh
Kawada
HBK
Hashimoto
Hart
Chono
Kobashi
Taue
Misawa

[Deleted]

Write in vote for Jumbo being better than all of them.

Of these 9 extraordinary talents:

Kobashi
Kawada
Michaels
Misawa
Hitman
Mutoh
Chono
Hashimoto
Taue

[KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!!]

I'm just ranking them from my personal preference. Trying to rank them objectively would be a whole different can of worms.

Hart
Michaels
Mutoh/Muta
Misawa
Kobashi
Kawada
Chono
Taue
Hashimoto

[Phil Parent]

Nice question.

As someone else said, Jumbo Tsuruta was the greatest.

But those 9 from one to 9...

1) Misawa (One of the most complete wrestlers in history. Skill, heart, soul, ingenuity, athleticism. Was likely to die in the ring, and did.)
2) Kawada (Tremendous wrestler, below Misawa because he wasn't as popular. Above Kobashi because on top of being a great seller, he also had great expressions when dealing punishment. One of the best heels, played the guy that was sour because Baba preferred Misawa and the people preferred Kobashi over him to a T... probably because he was that guy for real. One of wrestling's saddest stories is how Kawada felt empty when Misawa died because he never made up with the man he had come to dislike personally over professional decisions (The NOAH Split))
3) Kobashi (See Misawa. Not as big a star, although he was very popular too. Tremendous seller.)
4) Mutoh (Very spectacular, crossed national boundaries, charismatic...)
5) Michaels (See Mutoh, but in one company)
6) Hashimoto (Relative to the others here, Hashimoto lacked in many facets, one of which was looks and another physical conditioning. But he had tremendous ability, tremendous heart, always gave the fans what he had.)
7) Hart (I love Bret, always enjoy watching him work, but his primarily flaw is one that he loves projecting on Ric Flair: His matches lack variety, you see the same spots all the time UNLESS he works with somebody that gets him out ot that comfort zone, like say, HBK.)
8) Chono (Chono was a very competent worker, but his bread and butter was his charisma and character. In many ways, he was before his time in puroresu, although that allowed his to stand out. He would have been a bigger star now than he was then, and he was a very very succesful wrestler.)
9) Taue (I can't see how someone would rank Taue any higher than 9th in this field. The king of the chokeslam variations. The poor man's Baba's value is found in his size and in the willingness to do the absolute best he can with sometimes lesser abilities. Infinitely carriable, though.

[Saul Goodman]

Dean Malenko

[MrElijah]

Hmmm.....HBK high on alot of lists.

Well I man this up due to the fact when "who's the best in the 90s" comes up, these 9 show up in most discussions. Well that & I've been on a Kobashi kick lately. And was Jumbo really that good? Not being sarcastic.

[Deleted]

Dec 27, 2014 21:50:52 GMT -5 MrElijah said:

Hmmm.....HBK high on alot of lists.

Well I man this up due to the fact when "who's the best in the 90s" comes up, these 9 show up in most discussions. Well that & I've been on a Kobashi kick lately. And was Jumbo really that good? Not being sarcastic.

Jumbo was really good. He made Misawa in as strong a way as you can. Even before that, he wrestled in a lot of classic matches, including matches against Flair.

Jumbo/Misawa is the place to start. It's all subjective, of course, but it's a pretty remarkable match:

[Big Tuna]

1. Misawa
2. Kawada
3. Hashimoto
4. Bret
5. Kobashi
6. Michaels
7. Taue
8. Chono
9. Mutoh

f*** Keiji Mutoh.

[Digital Witness]

Dec 28, 2014 2:39:40 GMT -5 Big Tuna said:

1. Misawa
2. Kawada
3. Hashimoto
4. Bret
5. Kobashi
6. Michaels
7. Taue
8. Chono
9. Mutoh

f*** Keiji Mutoh.

I'm sure you have your reasons, but why the Mutoh hate?

Of the 9, I'd go with something like:

01. Misawa
02. Kobashi
03. Mutoh
04. Hart
05. Michaels
06. Kawada
07. Chono
08. Hashimoto
09. Taue

I also have to say, what about Dr. Death and Bam Bam? As far as 90s All Japan is concerned, you can't have that conversation without Gordy and Doc.

[Big Tuna]

Dec 28, 2014 3:18:37 GMT -5 Digital Witness said:

Dec 28, 2014 2:39:40 GMT -5 Big Tuna said:

1. Misawa
2. Kawada
3. Hashimoto
4. Bret
5. Kobashi
6. Michaels
7. Taue
8. Chono
9. Mutoh

f*** Keiji Mutoh.

I'm sure you have your reasons, but why the Mutoh hate?

Of the 9, I'd go with something like:

01. Misawa
02. Kobashi
03. Mutoh
04. Hart
05. Michaels
06. Kawada
07. Chono
08. Hashimoto
09. Taue

I also have to say, what about Dr. Death and Bam Bam? As far as 90s All Japan is concerned, you can't have that conversation without Gordy and Doc.

He's wildly inconsistent, something Misawa, Kawada, Kobashi, and Hashimoto aren't. He's not anywhere near as good of a striker as them. He's not anywhere near as good of a seller as them. He might be a better technician or whatever than Taue or Chono, but they (Taue especially) were worlds better about match layout to maximize what they could do. His catalog or whatever of great matches isn't anywhere nearly as big as theirs, and a lot of the great ones just don't hold up. And his great 90s matches? They're AGAINST Hashimoto or superworkers like Hiroshi Hase or Genichiro Tenryu, where he's not really contributing a lot to why something is great, so much as he's just not actively messing up while G.O.A.T. level dudes lead him by the hand. 

Taue has a lot of those problems, but also has some great performances and matches to his name that Mutoh just doesn't. It's just not enough to put him over the other Three Corners or Bret. Taue vs. Shawn ended up being closer than I thought when I got down to it. 

Chono does too, but Chono's 90s heel run was an absolute blast. Insanely charismatic dude, and unlike Mutoh, he seemed to actually know his limits and work within them. 

[Deleted]

I tend to agree that with Big Tuna Mutoh is a little overrated, even by me. I put him at #3 on my list, but you're exactly right. I'm not going to change my list, but if I did it again, I would move him down under Michaels and Kobashi to the #5 spot.

I'm also curious about the Jumbo Tsuruta love. I do really like Jumbo, but maybe I just haven't watched the right era. The stuff I've seen, mostly from the late 80's and early 90's, he was very repetitive. That's not to say that he wasn't great at what he did, but for me he would be down at the Bret Hart level, not hanging with Misawa or Kawada.