n a new episode of the Nerdist podcast (via The A.V. Club), Raimi talks about his film failures, including ‘Oz: The Great and Powerful’ and, obviously, ‘Spider-Man 3.’ Raimi explains the reason why the third installment in his Spidey franchise didn’t work out, which has something to do with his own lack of commitment:
It’s a movie that just didn’t work very well. I tried to make it work, but I didn’t really believe in all the characters, so that couldn’t be hidden from people who loved Spider-Man. If the director doesn’t love something, it’s wrong of them to make it when so many other people love it. I think [raising the stakes after Spider-Man 2] was the thinking going into it, and I think that’s what doomed us. I should’ve just stuck with the characters and the relationships and progressed them to the next step and not tried to top the bar.
He had always fought against Venom being in the movies. Part of me has always thought that he finally caved with the third movie, that it was part of him stepping away from the Spiderverse, and........put no effort into it as a result.
Jeff Mangum PI
Hank Scorpio 11 herbs and spices for the rest of eternity; Is Number Two. Number Two!
Post by riseofsetian1981 on Dec 31, 2014 20:55:20 GMT -5
Sandman has never been a favorite villain of mine. If anything Raimi should've went ahead and did The Lizard. I know he was very adamant on not including Venom in his film verse, however, if Venom was to be included it should've been for the fourth or fifth film.
I would've had Spider-Man in the black suit for the entire third film and not have it affect his mind until the fourth one.
"Just because it's in print doesn't make it the gospel."
Post by SHAKEMASTER TV9 is Don Knotts on Dec 31, 2014 21:30:26 GMT -5
It's like Spielberg doing Lost World, he did it because he felt obligated to do it, not that he wanted to do it. Would it have been better off with a different director who wanted to do a story with Venom rather than Raimi massage the story to his liking? Maybe, maybe not.
Let's twist again. Like we did last summer.
RIP father and son; Angelo Poffo and Macho Man Randy Savage
Iron Sheik-bubba u more retarded than the beetlejuice
Venom should have been John Jameson from the second film. It would make more sense for him to embrace being Venom to get revenge on Peter for being left at the altar when Mary Jane dumped him. The fact that Jameson is an astronaut would also be an easy way to explain how the symbiote got to Earth in the first instance.
Post by andrew8798 on Dec 31, 2014 22:50:25 GMT -5
Speaking of ASM 2
Marvel President Alan Fine wanted to burn The Amazing Spider-Man 2's script after reading it
Also had this to say
"I think it's a mistake to deny the original trilogy it's place in the canon Spider-Man cinematic universe. What are you telling the audience? That the original trilogy is a mistake, a total false-hood? We lied to you? Just made it up? Why should the audience buy into the world we create now? Will we deny it's place in the Spider-Man cinematic universe in the next reboot?"
Last Edit: Dec 31, 2014 22:52:55 GMT -5 by andrew8798
Peter Parker has begun to feel secure in his life and plans to propose to Mary Jane Watson, who has just recently won her first serious role on Broadway, however in revenge for Mary Jane dumping her fiancée John Jameson for Peter, Peter is sacked by Jonah Jameson. Peter gets a new job covering science stories for Dr Curt Connor’s department at Columbia University. While covering a returning lunar mission commanded by John Jameson and funded privately by Toomes Aerospace, Peter is infected by an oil-like alien symbiote, which has been brought back from the Moon by the lunar mission. He takes the symbiote to Dr Connors who informs him that it increases aggression and feeds off anger and that Peter must not allow it to make physical contact with his skin. Dr Connors also demonstrates that the symbiote has a low tolerance for loud noise and high frequency vibrations, which causes it to recoil.
Meanwhile Harry Osborn begins to mentally crack after his father’s death and becomes the “New Goblin” after exposing himself to the same chemicals which turns his father into the original Green Goblin. Norman appears to Harry in visions, which is actually a manifestation of Harry’s alternate personality (a side effect of the chemicals) and convinces him that Peter must be killed. Using new weapons adapted from Green Goblin technology, he begins to hunt his old friend down. When he finally confronts Peter, rather than killing him, he vows to steal Mary Jane from him, arguing that this would be a more satisfying revenge.
Distraught at losing his best friend, Peter returns home, battered and beaten. While he is asleep, the symbiote bonds with him. Peter wakes up hanging from a skyscraper in central Manhattan, with his old red and blue Spider-Man costume turned black, and discovers that his powers have been enhanced as well. Deeply concerned that his own powers will not be strong enough to deal with Harry, Peter begins using the new powers on a regular basis, which acts like a drug, making him feel more confident but also more aggressive and violent. The symbiote brings out the more vengeful, selfish and arrogant side of Peter's personality which alienates Mary Jane, whose career is floundering. While on a night out with Mary Jane, Peter reacts violently to a passer by making lewd, but otherwise harmless, comments at Mary Jane. In the fracas, he slaps Mary Jane after she tries to restrain him.
Mary Jane leaves Peter and begins spending more time with Harry, who offers her solace and a shoulder to cry on. Harry taunts Peter, telling him (falsely) that his relationship with Mary Jane is now sexual. Later that night, after growing more incensed and paranoid, Peter confronts Harry at Harry’s apartment and the two of them engage in a brutal fight. Using the enhanced powers given to him by the symbiote, Peter defeats Harry and leaves his face disfigured. After realising what he has done, Peter begins to feel immense guilt and seeks the advice and forgiveness of Mary Jane who tells him that the symbiote is corrupting Peter like a venomous poison. She tells him that he’s a hero, not a villain, and that if he doesn’t rid himself of the symbiote, it will consume him.
Following their reconciliation, Peter decides to separate himself from the symbiote, and remembering Dr Connor’s demonstration from earlier, he rids himself of the symbiote by exposing it to the loud noises of a chuch bell. Initially, he is unable to remove the suit, but the alien eventually weakens due to the loud sounds of the bell, enabling Peter to break free. By chance, Peter is at the same church where Mary Jane’s aborted wedding took place, and John Jameson, still bitter and hurt after being left at the altar is at the same church at the same time as Peter praying for Peter’s death when the symbiote falls from the tower and takes over his body.
After spying on Mary Jane and discovering her friendship with Harry, John confronts Harry. Harry, now weakened and broken after his injury, informs John that Peter is Spider-Man. John uses this information to his advantage and captures Mary Jane in a taxi-cab, hanging it from a crane on a high-rise construction site in a gigantic black web, as a trap for Spider-Man to fall into. Realising that with John, the symbiote is even stronger than ever and he cannot hope to defeat it alone, Peter asks Harry for his help and apologises for the hurt that he has caused Harry. Harry refuses and Peter leaves to face the symbiote alone. When Harry switches on a television and sees Peter struggling with Mary Jane is mortal danger, Harry’s conscience gets the better of him and he arrives in time to assist Peter and they form an alliance against the new villain.
As the fight progresses, John attempts to impale Peter with Harry's flying platform, but Harry jumps in the way and is fatally wounded, suffering the same fate as his father. During his fight with John, Peter notices that falling lengths of pipe appear to distress the symbiote, and Peter recalls how the church bell's toll weakened it, and creates a ring of several pipes around John to make a "fence" of sonic vibrations. The symbiote succumbs to so much pain that it releases John, and Peter pulls John away from it with a string of web. Peter throws one of Harry's bombs at the symbiote but John, wanting to rejoin it, jumps back towards the symbiote and is killed by the bomb, along with the symbiote. While Harry lays dying with Mary Jane and Peter at his side, Peter tells Harry that he had nothing to do with Norman’s death, and ultimately Norman died by his own hand. Harry acknowledges this truth and says that deep down, he always knew that was the case, but it was easier to cope with his father’s death by blaming someone else. Peter and Harry forgive each other, and the three friends stay together until Harry dies from his injuries.
After Harry’s funeral, Peter and Mary Jane get married and move away from New York City, and story ends with Peter deciding to give up his life as a superhero, ending his time as “Spider-Man” and settling down happily with Mary Jane to enjoy a normal life.
Post by Platypus Mod, World's Finest on Jan 1, 2015 20:09:50 GMT -5
It was pretty blatant that Sam Raimi didn't.
He clearly had the idea of the film he wanted being centered around Sandman... and he had stated multiple times he hated Venom and didn't want to use him... and it shows in his movie what was his idea and what was shoehorned in by Sony.