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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2015 9:33:58 GMT -5
Ever since Jesse Ventura talked about it decades ago (and before then even), there's been talk of the workers in WWE forming a union and grouping together to demand better pay, more expenses and medical coverage etc. At first this seems like it would be a great thing, but with a little extra thought I think it would be the worst thing possible for WWE at the moment.
Unions are ideally instituted when the big company is making tons of money off the backs of it's workers and not giving them their fare share or taking care of them properly in return. Situations where the corporation is making huge amounts off of the sweat of the workers and could afford to pay them more but don't.
That may sound like WWE, but it isn't. WWE (read: Vince) is so horrible with their money that there really isn't that surplus of cash on top from which to draw funds for all of the things a union would demand. Again, they're getting away with not paying for quite a bit of things that would become huge expenses if the workers unionized and they're STILL cost cutting. For every travel expense or health insurance bill or workman's comp expense they'd have to pay a NXT guy would lose his job. After all the cuts were made, the remaining 8 guys on the roster would be well taken care of...
I think that a wrestler's union would be the end of WWE. What do you guys think?
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Post by Next Level was WRONG on Jan 1, 2015 9:35:24 GMT -5
If thats true then it deserves to die.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2015 9:36:38 GMT -5
If WWE is so backward and petty that they collapse because they refuse to have their affairs in order and properly compensate the workers who earn them all of their money, so be it. I won't mind.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2015 9:38:53 GMT -5
If thats true then it deserves to die. Yeah, but then were would the guys work? It's not like there's another feasible option in the States. I think a union would either price themselves out of a job or be entirely ineffective for fear of doing so. If the union was successful in the least WWE would have to find a way to pay for the new expenses and traditionally when they're trying to trim the budget cutting the roster is the way they go. EDIT: I hope you've went back and read more than the title by now as well.
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Post by Red Impact on Jan 1, 2015 9:44:55 GMT -5
I don't think it would kill it, although I think you raise valid points, I just think WWE would become the biggest non-union wrestling company out there.
The thing working against it is that mot of the roster is instantly replacable, and the guys who aren't instantly replaceable tend to be those that tow the company line. If they were forced to adopt one, they'd cut wages to make up for what they had to pay for, because companies don't cut into their profits to pay for needed expenditures, they shift the costs elsewhere.
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
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Post by Sparkybob on Jan 1, 2015 9:48:26 GMT -5
This a pretty political thread but anyways......
It depends on how a union is formed. If it's just the lower card guys who pushed for it, Vince will fire them. If the Cena's of the world then I'm sure Vince would invest more of his personal fortune into the company. Vince isn't a rational business man, he'll rather bleed money with his company than shutting it down.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Boo! on Jan 1, 2015 9:51:37 GMT -5
Surely most guys on the roster earn enough to have their own medical coverage?
I don't mean to sound unsympathetic and probably guys on lower salaries should have company-wide cover but it's the reality that in America you pay for your own health insurance plan. Guys that earn six, sometimes seven-figure sums should really be able to afford their own.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2015 9:52:23 GMT -5
This a pretty political thread but anyways...... It depends on how a union is formed. If it's just the lower card guys who pushed for it, Vince will fire them. If the Cena's of the world then I'm sure Vince would invest more of his personal fortune into the company. Vince isn't a rational business man, he'll rather bleed money with his company than shutting it down. If it's too political I apologize. I'm not really trying to speak for or against the idea of unions as a whole, nor am I involved with one, I'm specifically speaking of this in terms of how it would affect WWE. More specifically the fact that even with all the corners WWE is cutting they are still cutting costs as well. I'm wondering what people think would happen if WWE wasn't allowed to cut those corners.
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Bo Rida
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Post by Bo Rida on Jan 1, 2015 10:00:53 GMT -5
They need one but it would be tough applying general standards to wrestling. For example where would you draw the line on working conditions/health and safety?
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
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Post by Sephiroth on Jan 1, 2015 10:06:26 GMT -5
I'd argue that what is really needed is a viable alternative to WWE. IF there was another company where talent could get better pay or better coverage, it would pretty much leave WWE without much choice other than to straighten up. At the very least, a thriving indy scene in the States would certainly put the screws to WWE in terms of compensation for talent.
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Post by Defrebel - White Pony on Jan 1, 2015 10:08:33 GMT -5
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Brood Lone Wolf Funker
Ozymandius
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Post by Brood Lone Wolf Funker on Jan 1, 2015 10:09:25 GMT -5
This could be just my union but it wouldn't be a good idea. I have no benefits medical wise, I still get money taken out for dues, my job still cut corners even though their is a union.
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Jan 1, 2015 10:14:13 GMT -5
I often wonder how many of the people who cry out that "WWE needs a Wrestlers Union!" have ever actually been in a union before. To take a quote from Rocky Balboa, Unions ain't all sunshine and rainbows. In many ways, Unions have become exactly the same thing they were originally intended to protect against. I speak from experience when I say that if you think a Union has YOUR best interests at heart and would never f*** you over.......you're absolutely dreaming.
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Jan 1, 2015 10:14:19 GMT -5
I often wonder how many of the people who cry out that "WWE needs a Wrestlers Union!" have ever actually been in a union before. To take a quote from Rocky Balboa, Unions ain't all sunshine and rainbows. In many ways, Unions have become exactly the same thing they were originally intended to protect against. I speak from experience when I say that if you think a Union has YOUR best interests at heart and would never f*** you over.......you're absolutely dreaming.
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hassanchop
Grimlock
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Post by hassanchop on Jan 1, 2015 10:15:13 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2015 10:18:33 GMT -5
Just defining the wrestlers as employees rather than contractors would force WWE's hand to make most of the changes people want a wrestling union to make. A union wouldn't really be necessary.
As far as safe working conditions I have no idea how that could even work in wrestling. The very essence of pro wrestling is unsafe work conditions. Maybe replace the wood under the mat with a bunch of pillows and sponges and no more jumping off of anything, ever.
Definitely no more TLC matches.
"The following contest is the Water pistols, Nerf bats, and Spongebob pillows. TWO!"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2015 10:28:19 GMT -5
Just defining the wrestlers as employees rather than contractors would force WWE's hand to make most of the changes people want a wrestling union to make. A union wouldn't really be necessary. Point being: What would WWE look like after the changes? Would it even be recognizable? Or able to stay afloat? What do you think?
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jan 1, 2015 10:38:27 GMT -5
It would kill the WWE in much the same way the Screen Actors Guild killed Hollywood and various unions killed the NFL, NBA and so on and so forth, oh wait. What it would do is make it harder for the WWE to fire people based on Vince's whims or forget that talent exist, paying them to rot like Hawkins and Reks or forgetting they're signed at all like Armando Estrada.
The roster would stay the same size, but we'd see an end to people on the main roster being set up to fail and a huge reduction in speculative developmental signings, people hired based on look because it would cost more to keep them on the payroll. There would be a huge reduction in stupid table spots and workers being put into dangerous gimmick matches when they've just had surgery or have a long history of injuries that could be aggravated by the match. Talent would have the ability to say 'no' to certain things, hazardous matches or travelling in formal attire, which is the real reason Vince works so hard to prevent a union.
The WWE being crap with money is no reason to deny workers rights, hell, it could give Vince the kick in the pants needed to start running the WWE as a business rather than a vanity project and would get him to think twice before starting further ego fuelled vanity projects like the WBF, IcoPro, XFL, WWE Network, Senator Linda Mcmahon(R) and so on.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2015 10:39:03 GMT -5
Just defining the wrestlers as employees rather than contractors would force WWE's hand to make most of the changes people want a wrestling union to make. A union wouldn't really be necessary. Point being: What would WWE look like after the changes? Would it even be recognizable? Or able to stay afloat? What do you think? The main thing would be health insurance. There's no way to know on that without hearing a quote for what exactly health insurance for a wrestler would cost. Unless it was something absolutely ridiculous though, like lets say 100x what a normal person pays (and I doubt it'd be anywhere near that)...it honestly wouldn't be that huge a blow to WWE finances. When you get down to it, they don't have that many wrestlers. Also, it's not as though WWE has to foot the entire bill either. Much like any other company, they would pay part of it and their employees would pay the rest. They have a lot of employees. Not wrestlers but employees. But those are already getting insurance (the people behind the scenes, non wrestlers). You'd probably see another round of toning down in risky spots. Much like how you don't see blading or unprotected chair shots anymore, you probably wouldn't see any more commentator table spots, ladder spots, or people jumping off the top turnbuckle to the outside of the ring...stuff like that. Removing one house show a week from the house show circuit would be another possibility. It could absolutely stay afloat.
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Dat Dude
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Dat Dude on Jan 1, 2015 11:00:53 GMT -5
Surely most guys on the roster earn enough to have their own medical coverage? wrestlers are in a profession that insurance companies deem too high risk to cover so typically the medical expenses are paid out of pocket by the company. The crappy thing is that if they have dependents they want to cover they're SOL.
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