And now Phelous is leaving Channel Awesome!

[Deleted]

Honestly I just watch a couple of the reviewers and have eading about all this drama over freaking reviews is quite staggering

I mean it's a comedy review website for crying out loud, there shouldn't be that much drama

[J is Justice]

Ugh, internet drama.

[Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill]

Jan 13, 2015 12:05:40 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

Jan 13, 2015 10:47:19 GMT -5 ShaolinHandLock said:

I don't know about all this talk of Channel Awesome/TGWTG being done, but I do know that just as long as the reviewers I like watching keep making videos, I'll keep watching them. As it is I watch Cinema Snob on his own site anyway, and I know a lot of the other talent have their own sites.

Also it wasn't that long ago that they added a bunch of new people to the site. I watched one of the videos by one of them (the Targets review by Count Jakula) and I thought it was really good, so there is that.

To me it kinda sucks because it was nice to have everything in one place, Linkara, Brad, Todd, NC, Chick etc.

Out of the new guys, SFDebris was already possibly my favourite reviewer online, Ursa has her moments, if we give the new people views, maybe they'll be as good.

Could just be a change in generation rather than the downfall.

SFDebris actually isn't 'new.' He's been around longer than most contributors. It's just recently he got a spot on CA.

[Crimson]

Jan 13, 2015 12:51:04 GMT -5 kingoftheindies said:

Jan 13, 2015 12:16:31 GMT -5 'Foretold' Joker said:

Higher ups ? I thought Doug and Rob owned and ran channel awesome?

Nope, Rob does some stuff on the business side, but the Walkers handle the creative side and not the business side.

From Obscurus Lupa's accounts of events, Doug is actually more involved with behind the scene management than most people believe:

Okay, so by now you’ve probably heard that Phelan, Lindsay, Andrew, and I are the most recent folks to exit TGWTG/CA. If you haven’t, well, you have now. But I’ve gotten a lot of questions about it, so here’s a long post explaining what happened as far as I’m concerned.
So was I fired? Well, yes and no. I was let go, but calling it being “fired” implies I worked for CA, and I did not. The only people with contracts/a payroll are those who work directly for them in Chicago. No producer has ever been paid by CA, and that includes the anniversaries. All profits from those, including the DVD sales, go directly to CA, and we were paid in “exposure” and “a free trip with our friends.” The only contracts we ever had to sign were for the anniversaries, mostly to sign over to them any crossovers we filmed (to pay for our trips there). So in actuality we were not on a “free trip” with our friends; we were working off our trip while also acting in a film we would have no profit from (the exception being commentaries, which we could keep). If we questioned this, we would be told we didn’t have to go and that was that. We did get a free copy of the movie for ourselves, if they remembered to send it to us. If you didn’t get a copy of To Boldly Flee, don’t worry, neither did I. One of Mike’s favorite things to tell us was how great it was that they hosted our stuff and never asked for a cut of our profits.

ANYWHO, my exit starts with the midrolls and Patreon. I’d been struggling for awhile to pay the bills, and ad revenue was down, and one of the things keeping me afloat was extra midrolls, which weren’t extremely popular. But I also had to do that to make barely enough to live, as this is my job. So while I’m in Chicago, Mike corners me while I’m alone and proceeds to tell me my midrolls are screwing everyone else by making people turn on adblock. It was very hostile, unprofessional, and uncomfortable. I told him I needed to do that to make enough money to live, he didn’t care (and also told me they left up comments about the midrolls as a hint to me, apparently), and it ended with me crying in a bathroom over how I was going to pay my bills. This was followed shortly after with a call from him and Doug mandating how many midrolls we were able to use, among other insulting things. Doug suggested I simply make more videos, like his TV show vlogs, because that was just his “work ethic.” I, of course, wouldn’t know about a work ethic. Mike was also unaware that I’d been posting on Sundays for 3 years, and implied that videos that weren’t OLPs didn’t count.

Anyway, I’m looking for alternative ways to make money, and Patreon is starting to do well for some folks. I decide why not? It wouldn’t hurt to try it out. So I start one up, and ask if Mike can put a link up to it under my next video. Mike and company do not know what Patreon is, and have not checked, because they’ve decided in their heads what it is. So he tells me I’m not allowed to promote it. I explain that it’s like an ongoing Kickstarter, and he tells me they won’t promote those either. This is despite them having already promoted Nerdquest stuff and their own Indiegogo, which you might remember was given $90,000 for something they have yet to produce.

(Side note: how many times does it take to film a game show pilot? As it turns out, at least 17, most with the same questions and guests. The other shows don’t even have a title, much less any start on production.)

Incidentally, the reason I don’t use as many midrolls now? Patreon. If they’d had their way, I’d still be broke, and people would still be using the same archaic system.

Rob then messages me and tells me adding Patreon to midrolls is a “slap to the face” and that their Indiegogo was “executive authority.”
Suede had made a video about the pros and cons of Patreon, and they told him he could not post it on the site. We weren’t allowed to put up any links, and only after the news about Suede got out and they looked bad did they tell us we could do a promotion at the end of our videos. After many of us had filmed them, they randomly told us they could only be 30 seconds long. I don’t know why.

Fast forward to now, and I see that they’ve posted Brad’s Patreon video on the new site. I ask Mike why it’s okay now, and quote the previous conversation with Rob. He tells me there was no reason to bring that up again because they’d said it while they were “still on the fence” with Patreon (“slap to the face” = “on the fence”). I told him, yes, there was reason to bring it up, because they never told us any of that was okay now. About 50% of the site’s problems could be fixed by them simply telling us things. I told him they were being hypocrites and should apologize, he deflects me, and I told him they’re always making excuses why things aren’t their fault.

So he asks me if I have time for quick call. I tell him no.

2 hours later, I’m away from the computer and Mike creates a new convo with me, him, and Doug. He asks if I can talk now. I don’t answer because, again, I am away from the computer. He waits approximately 15 minutes, and then tells me because I’m ignoring them they’re taking my stuff off of the site and letting me go. My stuff is immediately removed, which, coincidentally, is the only thing they’ve updated since the new site has gone up. Keep in mind, when the Noah incident happened, they never let him go, they simply kept extending his suspension. I was never even put on suspension. And he got a nice farewell post!

They’re getting a lot of bad PR right now, which probably could be fixed if they hadn’t fired their PR person the day after her surgery.

The site has had many, MANY behind the scenes issues, and ANYONE who has said anything has been labeled a troublemaker. Also, anyone who has said anything is gone now. It is a site fueled by yes men and denial, and many broken promises. They’ve referred to the other producers as “children” on more than one occasion, which is as patronizing as it sounds. The site has ALWAYS been about Doug, and they don’t care about anyone else there.

But what does this mean for videos? Nothing, actually. Us former CA members are still making videos on our own sites, you can find me, Phelan, and Andrew on Phelous.com, Lindsay on Chez Apocalypse, and I encourage you to continue to support folks who have or will leave the site. The producers are still friends, we will still work together, and we still love what we do.

tldr; I was let go for being away from the computer for 15 minutes.

[Deleted]

So...when will we get our "The Rise And Fall Of Channel Awesome" 3-Disc set?

[A Platypus Rave]

I will say Lupa did go a bit crazy with the mid rolls at one point.

Yeah, it's how she was getting paid but she was putting like 4 times more than any other person on the site per video... and her videos weren't that long.

[KStrick]

Pardon my ignorance, but midrolls? Is that ads in the middle of the video? Hasn't Doug been doing that for a WHILE?

[A Platypus Rave]

Jan 13, 2015 16:05:47 GMT -5 KStrick said:

Pardon my ignorance, but midrolls? Is that ads in the middle of the video? Hasn't Doug been doing that for a WHILE?

Yeah, but as I said it wasn't that she was doing them (most people on the site do)

Lupa used to put a rather excessive amount of breaks in her videos.

[KStrick]

Jan 13, 2015 16:07:20 GMT -5 A Platypus Rave said:

Jan 13, 2015 16:05:47 GMT -5 KStrick said:

Pardon my ignorance, but midrolls? Is that ads in the middle of the video? Hasn't Doug been doing that for a WHILE?

Yeah, but as I said it wasn't that she was doing them (most people on the site do)

Lupa used to put a rather excessive amount of breaks in her videos.

Makes sense, I never found her funny, entertaining, or enlightening, so I never watched her stuff after her first few videos (and another chance when her and Todd had the joking "stalker" thing going)

[Mozenrath]

Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if what Lupa said is more true than not, since a lot of what is said makes sense. I couldn't to speak to what she must or must not do to pay bills, obviously, but I had heard that ad money had been down, this isn't the first time I'd see that, and the movie stuff is also not really new news. That kind of stuff alone is enough to lead to where we are now, it's kind of straining under its weight.

[BorneAgain]

Honestly the whole thing reeks of CA management having no thoughts or plans about producers for income for when things went south. Easy to get everybody excited about crossovers and anniversary movies when there's a broad interest in the product and Blip loves you. Not so much when interest declines and ad revenue just isn't adding up.

While the actions of the likes of Rob and Mike are dubious enough, from what I've read on other forums, its Doug's passivity and refusal to really address these problems that seems the most damning given how much the latter is the face of the company. He's not actively screwing over producers, but it doesn't sound like he's doing much to hinder it either.

[Mozenrath]

Jan 13, 2015 16:31:34 GMT -5 BorneAgain said:

Honestly the whole thing reeks of CA management having no thoughts or plans about producers for income for when things went south. Easy to get everybody excited about crossovers and anniversary movies when there's a broad interest in the product and Blip loves you. Not so much when interest declines and ad revenue just isn't adding up.

While the actions of the likes of Rob and Mike are dubious enough, from what I've read on other forums, its Doug's passivity and refusal to really address these problems that seems the most damning given how much the latter is the face of the company. He's not actively screwing over producers, but it doesn't sound like he's doing much to hinder it either.

It really comes across like he is kept in "plausible deniability mode", to deflect criticism and to pacify. They avoid having him play the bad guy. I don't know for sure, obviously, that it's the case, but it'd explain a lot.

[BorneAgain]

Between the willfull ignorance by some, the lack of consistent answers by others, the growing broken promises made towards employees, continued apathy about complaints, and now the interference of the producers ability to even just make a basic living, I'm getting ex-TNA wrestler shoot interview flashbacks.

Apparently Kyle's gone too

[Sponsored by Groose Wipes]

Lupa by far sounds like the most believable thing I've heard from anyone. Nice to see someone telling people what's going on and being professional about it.

From what it sounds like, Doug, Mike, and Rob would take all of the sales of the DVDs and merch and keep a good deal of the profit. Reviewers were not getting their water so they went to another well. Honestly if what Lupa says is legit, I don't blame the people leaving for leaving. It really sounds like there's a problem with people getting paid or all of the money only going to Doug and Rob. Honestly the more and more I hear about Rob Walker, the more he sounds like a selfish asshole.

[blackmegaman]

Here's Phelous' Explanation on why he left.

phelous.tumblr.com/post/108013883721/goodbye-farewell-and-amen-ca


"Goodbye, Farewell and Amen CA.

It’s time I parted ways with Channel Awesome. This has been coming for a awhile. So it might not be a shock to some. The direction and attitude at CA changed after the filming of the 4th year anniversary movie, To Boldly Flee.

Now things weren’t always perfect before that, of course, but it really was the start of the team/group feeling at CA being lost. Once upon a time I used to watch almost everything on TGWTG. That was something that was actually kind of possible at one point. Now it’s gotten to the point there are so many people I don’t even know most of the names on there. That’s nothing against them, I’m sure there’s a lot of talented producers on there, but it’s more of a crowd than a team at this point.
CA itself used to also make us feel remotely like we were part of team but post TBF it became clear the only goals were productions made in their studio with the Chicago crew. The company goals/focus for it’s other producers had changed. There had been quite a few things promised to us over the years including us actually being hired on by them at some point if we were consistent with our videos. Of course none of that was even close to happening. The main thing was I wasn’t a part of any of CA’s plans and it certainly doesn’t make sense for me to stay on as an appendix to the site.

While I don’t wish to be OVERLY negative about my departure I do want to be truthful and being part of CA just stopped being something I was happy about. And believe me I WAS happy about it before. I wanted to support the site before. I made that original CA bumper on my own just as a way to plug CA and give people something to show the group we were a part of, if they wanted to use it. I also did a lot of the more complicated effects for Suburban Knights for free, plus the amount of effects I had to do for that movie ended up pretty much doubling.

This leads to to another major problem I had with the company during the making of effects for the next movie, TBF. This time they promised me some pay, which was cool and there was no problem with that BUT after completion of an effects sequence I was accused of half assing it. Actually, accused sounds a bit more forthright than it actually was. They talked about it behind my back and decided to send Mat (Welshy) to covertly try and find out if I was “half assing” my effects for the film. Mat is an actual friend though so he wasn’t going to play that game and just told me flat out what was going on.

The exact effects sequence in question was where Noah has turned into the containment unit from Ghostbusters, they unplug him so there was a red light flashing, Noah’s eyes glow white, energy shoots out of his mouth and explodes through the roof.

Now if there was a problem with an effect last year on SK, Doug would simply ask me if I could make a change to it and I would. Apparently that was far too effective, so gossip and attempted covert information gathering was the way to go next year.
By the way the response I got from Doug when I originally sent him these particular effects was “LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! …”
I should have known there was a problem clearly. He would have said “love it” one more time if he was actually OK with it.
Holly was the only one who actually apologized to me for the situation either. Any of them that actually started the high school BS drama about something that could have been as simple as asking me, didn’t.
That was my thanks for doing so many effects for them last year for free.

They seemed grateful back when I did them but with CA it always seems to be what have you done for us lately.
I really wish it didn’t start feeling like that but the sad fact is it did. I’d been with them since late 2008 and started realizing they didn’t really care about me or what I did. The sad fact was we weren’t really important to CA. It was my disenchantment with the site that partly lead to me going into a heavy depression during the beginning of 2013. You might have noticed I barely did anything during the 1st few months of that year. This was partly why.

There’s been many times other producers have had a hard time with management. Especially getting answers on anything. So much so we had several meetings with them to really try and get things fixed between us and them. It resulted in a monthly newsletter they didn’t send consistently and died a quick death. Then, they let Holly go. The one person that actually communicated with us regularly. Plus it was right after she got out of the hospital. Those things were pretty much the end of me wanting to remain a part of CA.

I had made the decision to leave all ready not planning to post to the site anymore in 2015 when Michaud had an argument with Allison and told her she was off the site for not being around to talk to him with in 15 minutes. It can take DAYS to get a response, if you get one at all, from them so yeah 15 minutes in return is pretty fair. I didn’t want there to be any drama crap going on with my departure but apparently I couldn’t even have that. I informed Rob of my decision to leave the site which he was cool about but I guess Mike wasn’t and my vids were removed immediately.
6 years on that site… "

[BigJerichool222]

MikeJ and Todd are the only reasons why I still even have their site bookmarked. I use Brad's own site to watch his videos.

[Mozenrath]

Definitely sounds like another drop in the "It got too big" bucket. Total breakdown.

[kingoftheindies]

Jan 13, 2015 15:47:18 GMT -5 Crimson said:

Jan 13, 2015 12:51:04 GMT -5 kingoftheindies said:

Nope, Rob does some stuff on the business side, but the Walkers handle the creative side and not the business side.

From Obscurus Lupa's accounts of events, Doug is actually more involved with behind the scene management than most people believe:

Okay, so by now you’ve probably heard that Phelan, Lindsay, Andrew, and I are the most recent folks to exit TGWTG/CA. If you haven’t, well, you have now. But I’ve gotten a lot of questions about it, so here’s a long post explaining what happened as far as I’m concerned.
So was I fired? Well, yes and no. I was let go, but calling it being “fired” implies I worked for CA, and I did not. The only people with contracts/a payroll are those who work directly for them in Chicago. No producer has ever been paid by CA, and that includes the anniversaries. All profits from those, including the DVD sales, go directly to CA, and we were paid in “exposure” and “a free trip with our friends.” The only contracts we ever had to sign were for the anniversaries, mostly to sign over to them any crossovers we filmed (to pay for our trips there). So in actuality we were not on a “free trip” with our friends; we were working off our trip while also acting in a film we would have no profit from (the exception being commentaries, which we could keep). If we questioned this, we would be told we didn’t have to go and that was that. We did get a free copy of the movie for ourselves, if they remembered to send it to us. If you didn’t get a copy of To Boldly Flee, don’t worry, neither did I. One of Mike’s favorite things to tell us was how great it was that they hosted our stuff and never asked for a cut of our profits.

ANYWHO, my exit starts with the midrolls and Patreon. I’d been struggling for awhile to pay the bills, and ad revenue was down, and one of the things keeping me afloat was extra midrolls, which weren’t extremely popular. But I also had to do that to make barely enough to live, as this is my job. So while I’m in Chicago, Mike corners me while I’m alone and proceeds to tell me my midrolls are screwing everyone else by making people turn on adblock. It was very hostile, unprofessional, and uncomfortable. I told him I needed to do that to make enough money to live, he didn’t care (and also told me they left up comments about the midrolls as a hint to me, apparently), and it ended with me crying in a bathroom over how I was going to pay my bills. This was followed shortly after with a call from him and Doug mandating how many midrolls we were able to use, among other insulting things. Doug suggested I simply make more videos, like his TV show vlogs, because that was just his “work ethic.” I, of course, wouldn’t know about a work ethic. Mike was also unaware that I’d been posting on Sundays for 3 years, and implied that videos that weren’t OLPs didn’t count.

Anyway, I’m looking for alternative ways to make money, and Patreon is starting to do well for some folks. I decide why not? It wouldn’t hurt to try it out. So I start one up, and ask if Mike can put a link up to it under my next video. Mike and company do not know what Patreon is, and have not checked, because they’ve decided in their heads what it is. So he tells me I’m not allowed to promote it. I explain that it’s like an ongoing Kickstarter, and he tells me they won’t promote those either. This is despite them having already promoted Nerdquest stuff and their own Indiegogo, which you might remember was given $90,000 for something they have yet to produce.

(Side note: how many times does it take to film a game show pilot? As it turns out, at least 17, most with the same questions and guests. The other shows don’t even have a title, much less any start on production.)

Incidentally, the reason I don’t use as many midrolls now? Patreon. If they’d had their way, I’d still be broke, and people would still be using the same archaic system.

Rob then messages me and tells me adding Patreon to midrolls is a “slap to the face” and that their Indiegogo was “executive authority.”
Suede had made a video about the pros and cons of Patreon, and they told him he could not post it on the site. We weren’t allowed to put up any links, and only after the news about Suede got out and they looked bad did they tell us we could do a promotion at the end of our videos. After many of us had filmed them, they randomly told us they could only be 30 seconds long. I don’t know why.

Fast forward to now, and I see that they’ve posted Brad’s Patreon video on the new site. I ask Mike why it’s okay now, and quote the previous conversation with Rob. He tells me there was no reason to bring that up again because they’d said it while they were “still on the fence” with Patreon (“slap to the face” = “on the fence”). I told him, yes, there was reason to bring it up, because they never told us any of that was okay now. About 50% of the site’s problems could be fixed by them simply telling us things. I told him they were being hypocrites and should apologize, he deflects me, and I told him they’re always making excuses why things aren’t their fault.

So he asks me if I have time for quick call. I tell him no.

2 hours later, I’m away from the computer and Mike creates a new convo with me, him, and Doug. He asks if I can talk now. I don’t answer because, again, I am away from the computer. He waits approximately 15 minutes, and then tells me because I’m ignoring them they’re taking my stuff off of the site and letting me go. My stuff is immediately removed, which, coincidentally, is the only thing they’ve updated since the new site has gone up. Keep in mind, when the Noah incident happened, they never let him go, they simply kept extending his suspension. I was never even put on suspension. And he got a nice farewell post!

They’re getting a lot of bad PR right now, which probably could be fixed if they hadn’t fired their PR person the day after her surgery.

The site has had many, MANY behind the scenes issues, and ANYONE who has said anything has been labeled a troublemaker. Also, anyone who has said anything is gone now. It is a site fueled by yes men and denial, and many broken promises. They’ve referred to the other producers as “children” on more than one occasion, which is as patronizing as it sounds. The site has ALWAYS been about Doug, and they don’t care about anyone else there.

But what does this mean for videos? Nothing, actually. Us former CA members are still making videos on our own sites, you can find me, Phelan, and Andrew on Phelous.com, Lindsay on Chez Apocalypse, and I encourage you to continue to support folks who have or will leave the site. The producers are still friends, we will still work together, and we still love what we do.

tldr; I was let go for being away from the computer for 15 minutes.

My mistake. I was going more by what others have said about the Walkers.

Either way, reading both Lupa and Phelous explain things just strengthens my belief that the failed studio stuff from a couple years ago has hurt Channel Awesome quite a bit. I thought it back then after listening to Doug explain why the 2nd episode of Demo Reel was gonna be delayed (He said something like it wasn't going how they wanted it to, which to me translated "show really sucks").

Since this is a wrestling board, I'll use a wrestling analogy. Channel Awesome wanted to grow and be more than just an internet review company much like how TNA wanted to get out of the Impact Zone and tour. Both companies thought of what the success would be but didn't really have a plan if things didn't work out.

[Mister Pigwell]

I find the amount of drama that can come from a video review site fascinating and ridiculous in equal measure.

[kidglov3s]

Jan 13, 2015 17:50:15 GMT -5 Mister Pigwell said:

I find the amount of drama that come come from a video review site fascinating and ridiculous in equal measure.

I don't follow any of this stuff, but I think the funniest part is when they go "(drama drama drama) Uhh yeah I'm still gonna like make videos where I like talk about stuff I'm just not gonna be linked on this website"