Johnny Flamingo
Hank Scorpio
Killing the business one post at a time
Posts: 6,727
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on Feb 23, 2015 7:33:01 GMT -5
I loved the match, but damn I despised that Bryan used one KneePlus and Reigns kicked out, then a long long Yes Lock or two, with Reigns not tapping. It then takes ONE spear and Bryan was finished! Such Reign. Much Strong. Betta than Ugly Goat LOL. WOW This is the same Bryan that took the pedigree, went through a table, was attacked after a long opening match, was almost stretchered out of the main event, was jumped during the main event and defeated 3 of the biggest stars in one night with extreme odds stacked against him. With all due respect Reigns isn't breaking new ground here. Only difference between now and then is that the IWC has decided to be completely crucify Reigns no matter how well he does and he has done exceptionally well since the Rumble.
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543Y2J
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by 543Y2J on Feb 23, 2015 7:50:15 GMT -5
I loved the match, but damn I despised that Bryan used one KneePlus and Reigns kicked out, then a long long Yes Lock or two, with Reigns not tapping. It then takes ONE spear and Bryan was finished! Such Reign. Much Strong. Betta than Ugly Goat LOL. WOW This is the same Bryan that took the pedigree, went through a table, was attacked after a long opening match, was almost stretchered out of the main event, was jumped during the main event and defeated 3 of the biggest stars in one night with extreme odds stacked against him. With all due respect Reigns isn't breaking new ground here. Only difference between now and then is that the IWC has decided to be completely crucify Reigns no matter how well he does and he has done exceptionally well since the Rumble. Good point, I forgot how strong Bryan was booked during Mania night. He was eating a lot of loses during 2013 during PPVs though, while Reigns has had most Rumble eliminations/sole survivor a couple of years ago at SSeries etc both before and after his injury last year. At least with Reigns they are consistent, I don't think Vince is going to get cold feet with him any time in the near futur. And one of the iwcs pet peeves it seems is stop-start pushes in the past...
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Post by Thunderbolt on Feb 23, 2015 7:54:34 GMT -5
Roman is overpushed, but he's a much better wrestler than just about everyone on this board gives him credit for. It's his promos that stink...but then again, Cena and face Daniel Bryan also have horrible promos as well.
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Bub (BLM)
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Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Feb 23, 2015 14:32:17 GMT -5
Guarantee a guy the caliber of a Triple H or a Daniel Bryan could have gotten a better match out of concussed Undertaker than Brock did. Not sure how that's an insult to not be as good as Daniel Bryan or HHH. I'm not trying to insult Brock. I'm just pointing out that he isn't a guy who can call the shots in a match to cover for his opponent's weakness.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Feb 23, 2015 14:34:40 GMT -5
If only this were the good old days when people thought pro wrestling was real.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Feb 23, 2015 14:45:02 GMT -5
Roman is overpushed, but he's a much better wrestler than just about everyone on this board gives him credit for. It's his promos that stink...but then again, Cena and face Daniel Bryan also have horrible promos as well. He's a decent wrestler, but he's not a good enough wrestler to be John Cena's heir apparent. I don't think anyone would have a problem with Reigns being champion if he was going to have a run where his matches aren't even the main event, or if they weren't going to seriously make him "The Guy:,
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MrBRulzOK
Wade Wilson
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Posts: 26,719
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Post by MrBRulzOK on Feb 23, 2015 14:51:04 GMT -5
If only this were the good old days when people thought pro wrestling was real. Not even a child would consider today's product real, even back then. If the WWE had presented stuff like they do now during the territory days, there would be no WWE nowadays.
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Post by -Lithium- on Feb 23, 2015 15:42:21 GMT -5
It's fine if you didn't like the match but that's not the point I'm making. The fact remains, Roman was right there with Bryan every step of the way. He didn't blow spots left and right, he kept pace. When he won, people cheered. People are acting like he's Mason Ryan and the live crowds hate him when that's obviously not true. I'd go as far to say neither man earned it. I really disliked how both dudes went about it and it feels the crowd is only cheering for one guy because they don't like the other. Eh but whatever. Smarks gonna smark for Bryan and Marks gonna mark for reigns. Uh, no. The "marks" really like Bryan as well...
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Post by Error on Feb 23, 2015 15:49:04 GMT -5
Roman is overpushed, but he's a much better wrestler than just about everyone on this board gives him credit for. It's his promos that stink...but then again, Cena and face Daniel Bryan also have horrible promos as well. He's a decent wrestler, but he's not a good enough wrestler to be John Cena's heir apparent. I don't think anyone would have a problem with Reigns being champion if he was going to have a run where his matches aren't even the main event, or if they weren't going to seriously make him "The Guy:, In ring, Roman is no different than Cena was at this point in his career.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Feb 23, 2015 15:56:48 GMT -5
He's a decent wrestler, but he's not a good enough wrestler to be John Cena's heir apparent. I don't think anyone would have a problem with Reigns being champion if he was going to have a run where his matches aren't even the main event, or if they weren't going to seriously make him "The Guy:, In ring, Roman is no different than Cena was at this point in his career. The difference is that Cena wasn't a handpicked star. He was a dude in a comedy jobber gimmick who got over organically and was given a push to reward him for that overness. If Randy Orton wasn't shitting in bags and Lesnar never left, Cena would either be in perpetual "almost there" status like Ziggler, banished to the commentary table, in TNA, or completely out of the business.
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Post by angryfan on Feb 23, 2015 15:59:23 GMT -5
I like that they want to have a few guys be over, even if one guy is destined to be "the guy" and the other is 1b or even 1c on their list. I like Reigns, I still think he's Terry Gordy or Robert Gibson at this point, but those guys drew money too, a LOT of money.
I detest the "Well, smarks..." arguments because, in this case, it's patently false. Bryan is over with smarks, sure, but kids buy his merch and pop for him, he's getting mainstream pub, which is super rare these days, but the one logic point I can see is this. He has the innate skill to make those he work with look like a million bucks. Flair had that, Michaels (when not in douche mode) had that, and it's something that can make a lot of guys look like money draws and (theoretically) help the company make cash hand over fist.
The problem I have with Reigns, as of this moment, is that he looks best when his dance partner leads. It's understandable, given his age and experience, and he's improving, but if you're going into a "career defining moment" match (which Mania is supposed to be), do y ou have him work with someone who can lead on the dance floor, or do you have him work with a guy who is best when following? Do you just have everything laid out ahead of time and have both guys play connect the dots and ignore the crowd entirely (in theater terms do you want them to work improv or act from a script)?
Brock is a physical freak of nature, but when was the last time he worked with someone (not in a run in, murk, leave appearance) who wasn't a ring general?
My thought is simple, if you want a "career making moment" where it's not just the last image but the (presumably) all out war that makes Roman look like a legion slayer, then you let Heyman (however he does it) call the plays from the sideline. You let him gage the crowd, you let him adjust the flow and keep both guys focused. It can work, it's been done countless times over the years, but the flaw may be that, without that direction, we get something...well clunky might not be the best word.
If Brock goes into murk mode, and Reigns pops up like Warrior after the pedigree, then the crowd won't react well to it. It's not a guarantee that it'll happen, but they need Heyman, and they need a ref with seasoning out there to keep the guys on track.
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Post by Error on Feb 23, 2015 16:02:14 GMT -5
In ring, Roman is no different than Cena was at this point in his career. The difference is that Cena wasn't a handpicked star. He was a dude in a comedy jobber gimmick who got over organically and was given a push to reward him for that overness. If Randy Orton wasn't shitting in bags and Lesnar never left, Cena would either be in perpetual "almost there" status like Ziggler, banished to the commentary table, in TNA, or completely out of the business. From Survivor Series 03 on he was without a doubt a handpicked star, he was Stephenie's guy, no different than Roman after the Rumble last year becoming Hunter's guy. And Orton never shit in a bag, Lesnar was still in the company by the time he was getting push, Batista was on the outside looking in until Orton had his issues and Lesnar left.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Feb 23, 2015 16:05:37 GMT -5
The difference is that Cena wasn't a handpicked star. He was a dude in a comedy jobber gimmick who got over organically and was given a push to reward him for that overness. If Randy Orton wasn't shitting in bags and Lesnar never left, Cena would either be in perpetual "almost there" status like Ziggler, banished to the commentary table, in TNA, or completely out of the business. From Survivor Series 03 on he was without a doubt a handpicked star, he was Stephenie's guy, no different than Roman after the Rumble last year becoming Hunter's guy. And Orton never shit in a bag, Lesnar was still in the company by the time he was getting push, Batista was on the outside looking in until Orton had his issues and Lesnar left. He was "Stephanie's Guy" but he wasn't going to be THE Guy. Before Orton and Lesnar didn't work out, they projected Cena to be a "good little hand" in the upper midcard that they could slot into the title picture as needed, not unlike most of the "main event" guys they have today.
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The Ichi
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Posts: 37,644
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Post by The Ichi on Feb 23, 2015 16:07:25 GMT -5
The crowd didn't seem very hot for the guy to me like they did for Bryan, though it could be the lack of a catchy chant.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Feb 23, 2015 16:33:41 GMT -5
"WWE makes all babyfaces look like chumps and doesn't get behind them enough and let them look strong" "DAMMIT WWE STOP MAKING ROMAN REIGNS LOOK SO STRONG" Yeah, you're right. There's no happy medium. You either have to win every match or lose every match. But they haven't. It hasn't been 50/50 booking but he's been selling for cannon folder guys way to much for a bad ass babyface.
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Post by Gravedigger's Biscuits on Feb 23, 2015 16:42:30 GMT -5
Yeah, you're right. There's no happy medium. You either have to win every match or lose every match. But they haven't. It hasn't been 50/50 booking but he's been selling for cannon folder guys way to much for a bad ass babyface. That's because Vince can't help booking all his top faces as "underdogs" who get their ass kicked for most of the match but still win every match anyway. Get DDT'd on concrete? No matter, you're John Cena!
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RIHT
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Hey-yo.
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Post by RIHT on Feb 23, 2015 16:50:01 GMT -5
For his sake, I do not want to see Reigns win the title cleanly and close the show. His legacy will forever have that stain, along with the Royal Rumble 2015. He can improve, but just wait. Why does it matter if he's champion this year?
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Post by Milkman Norm on Feb 23, 2015 16:50:02 GMT -5
But they haven't. It hasn't been 50/50 booking but he's been selling for cannon folder guys way to much for a bad ass babyface. That's because Vince can't help booking all his top faces as "underdogs" who get their ass kicked for most of the match but still win every match anyway. Get DDT'd on concrete? No matter, you're John Cena! I get what you're saying and I agree with you though I think it's a slightly different point. The over use of high impact spots and Cena never jobbing to them annoys me. However what I'm talking about is the format with Reigns of a very brief shine followed by selling the heels average offense followed by his comeback. The heat segment last too long for a guy not over as a top top face let.
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Post by Brickstone Kid on Feb 23, 2015 16:50:47 GMT -5
I know I shouldn't (after all, it's a fake show with actors, and it's not really his fault)......but god damn, I f***ing hate Roman Reigns right now. Like, abhor him. The fact that Vince is shoving this guy down our throats is giving me nothing but indigestion and I can't take him seriously, either as a threat to Bryan or Lesnar. It really sucks because I used to like him in the Shield, and if he was pushed more naturally (instead of having a rocket strapped to his ass) then I would probably buy in. But it's more the fact that Vince doesn't give a s*** what the fans (or me, specifically) want and is content to force these guys upon us just because they've got "the look" or "the heritage." It's such a joke, but I guess it's his company and he can do what he wants. Kinda sad that he has such little disregard for the people who enjoy watching his show.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Feb 23, 2015 16:51:36 GMT -5
The crowd didn't seem very hot for the guy to me like they did for Bryan, though it could be the lack of a catchy chant. "Belieeb dat" won't cut it for you?
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