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Post by Stu on Apr 5, 2016 8:48:56 GMT -5
Just hope they dont do anything stupid in the first episode of Season 7. The person who Negan kills....Will not be shown tonight whilst we show you this Father Gabriel special. A Father Gabriel special would be fun if it's the current version of Gabriel. Gabriel: Tonight, we're going to learn how to pray to God while shooting Saviors.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Apr 5, 2016 10:04:55 GMT -5
Just hope they dont do anything stupid in the first episode of Season 7. The person who Negan kills....Will not be shown tonight whilst we show you this Father Gabriel special. Scott Gimple has said S07E01 will pick up immediately where they left off at the end of S06
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Post by thetower52 on Apr 5, 2016 10:18:34 GMT -5
I get the criticism of the ending. It's very gimmicky. But I just cannot hate an episode of the Walking Dead that has Trevor f***ing Phillips in it. He was f***ing awesome.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Apr 5, 2016 10:21:58 GMT -5
From what I'm understanding, I think the key that WWE should have been looking for in trying to salvage Roman Reigns was to have him run in at the final moments of the S6 finale and have him Superman Punch Negan moments before he takes the bat to whomever it was.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Apr 5, 2016 12:28:53 GMT -5
My thing is I am starting to wonder if they're losing confidence in the show. Why else end with a cliffhanger? Were they that worried about fans "quitting" a show if a major character was shown to be getting their brains bashed in via Lucille?
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Post by chronocross on Apr 5, 2016 12:36:47 GMT -5
My interest is starting to wane a bit with WD. I thought the Negan intro was great, but the combination of that cliffhanger along with Dumpstergate left me with a bit of a bad taste.
The writers have said that the death would go to someone who is beloved by everyone, but watch them still give to Aaron or something, who we've seen for like 5 minutes this season.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Apr 5, 2016 12:44:59 GMT -5
My interest is starting to wane a bit with WD. I thought the Negan intro was great, but the combination of that cliffhanger along with Dumpstergate left me with a bit of a bad taste. The writers have said that the death would go to someone who is beloved by everyone, but watch them still give to Aaron or something, who we've seen for like 5 minutes this season. Dumpster scene didn't bother me really. I actually thought it was clever and filmed very well. I could handle that a lot better than the Negan cliffhanger.
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Eunös ✈
Dalek
Duck Feet Expert
Tolerated, just not practically liked.
Posts: 59,225
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Post by Eunös ✈ on Apr 5, 2016 13:10:21 GMT -5
So can we confirm it wasn't Carl that was killed by Negan? If it were than half the screen would have been pitch black That's a point, They really didn't make that big a deal of Carl losing his eye this season like they did in the comics, there really wasn't that whole "His life is on the line" feel to it unlike Season 2 when he was shot by Otis. Even Negan didn't really make that big a deal of it like he does in the comics.
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Apr 5, 2016 13:10:56 GMT -5
The cliffhanger is working. You can hate it if you like but the fact is a show's season ended and nobody has let go and won't for a bit longer than 80% of tv shows when they wrap for a season. It's trending and will keep trending. It is heel heat plus viral spread and it equals interest
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 13:13:49 GMT -5
I actually really liked the ending and didn't think it was a cop out at all. I dunno why people want to see someone get their head caved in that bad, when really only hearing it forces your brain to imagine something more horrific and gruesome than they could ever show on AMC.
The guy from Vox had a way to do it even better though, which would have been to have it still be a cliffhanger, but instead of cutting to black the camera should have cut to Rick's reaction to whoever it was getting smashed. We'd still hear the sounds, but we'd also see how it affected Rick - especially since the crux of the story was about Rick's overconfidence and realizing how out of his depth he truly was with this.
Still - the cutting to black and only hearing the sounds was pretty effective. I think people didn't really get to take it in because they were already bemoaning how they didn't get to see who it was, but the moment really lingered with me in an unsettling way. With no visual, it forces you to really listen & visualize for yourself what's happening. I think if they'd have actually shown it, it wouldn't have been as effective because S&P only lets them get away with so much.
I don't get the big injustice that not showing who get smashed really was. Just seems like normal cliffhanger stuff that TV shows have done for the past 15 years. Are people really that upset they didn't get to see someone's head bashed in with a bat? Is it just bloodlust? Or is it more that they feel that the cliffhanger was pointless because spoilers will get out before the next season debuts? If that's the case - I still don't get it because everyone is so sensitive about spoilers these days.
Like I said - I thought the feeling of helplessness & powerlessness that the ending instilled in people was exactly the kind of feeling that Negan was meant to instill in Rick's crew. I expected some amount of impotent rage online, as that's the intended affect, but I didn't expect the bloodlustiness of the responses. People just livid they didn't get to see the inside of someone's skull - which is just creepy.
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Post by Stu on Apr 5, 2016 13:30:29 GMT -5
I actually really liked the ending and didn't think it was a cop out at all. I dunno why people want to see someone get their head caved in that bad, when really only hearing it forces your brain to imagine something more horrific and gruesome than they could ever show on AMC. The guy from Vox had a way to do it even better though, which would have been to have it still be a cliffhanger, but instead of cutting to black the camera should have cut to Rick's reaction to whoever it was getting smashed. We'd still hear the sounds, but we'd also see how it affected Rick - especially since the crux of the story was about Rick's overconfidence and realizing how out of his depth he truly was with this. Still - the cutting to black and only hearing the sounds was pretty effective. I think people didn't really get to take it in because they were already bemoaning how they didn't get to see who it was, but the moment really lingered with me in an unsettling way. With no visual, it forces you to really listen & visualize for yourself what's happening. I think if they'd have actually shown it, it wouldn't have been as effective because S&P only lets them get away with so much. I don't get the big injustice that not showing who get smashed really was. Just seems like normal cliffhanger stuff that TV shows have done for the past 15 years. Are people really that upset they didn't get to see someone's head bashed in with a bat? Is it just bloodlust? Or is it more that they feel that the cliffhanger was pointless because spoilers will get out before the next season debuts? If that's the case - I still don't get it because everyone is so sensitive about spoilers these days. Like I said - I thought the feeling of helplessness & powerlessness that the ending instilled in people was exactly the kind of feeling that Negan was meant to instill in Rick's crew. I expected some amount of impotent rage online, as that's the intended affect, but I didn't expect the bloodlustiness of the responses. People just livid they didn't get to see the inside of someone's skull - which is just creepy. It has absolutely nothing to do with bloodlust and it's nowhere near as complicated as you're making it out to be. Simply, nearly everyone knew someone would be killed off when we met Negan (whether through word of mouth or because they follow the graphic novel) and the producers knew that this scene was highly anticipated. And instead of there being a mystery of whodunnit, there was a mystery of who gets killed. And we didn't get an answer. That's all it is; we didn't get a resolution and now have to wait six months to get an answer.
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
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Post by ICBM on Apr 5, 2016 13:32:13 GMT -5
Who shot JR?
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clifford
King Koopa
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Post by clifford on Apr 5, 2016 13:33:56 GMT -5
It's a cop out. Plain and simple. Show some balls and commit to killing a character.
People still talk about the Red Wedding 3 years later. You can follow the source material and leave an impression.
It's nothing to do with bloodlust, and everything to do with respecting the audience.
As to whether the cliffhanger 'works'? What does that even mean? Does the show need more buzz or something? Is it struggling to stay relevant? No to both. It's already one of the two most popular shows of the last decade. It doesn't need cheap tricks to stay ahead of the curve.
If you liked the ending, I'm happy for you. Cause I tried so hard to. But it's horseshit.
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
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Post by ICBM on Apr 5, 2016 13:34:23 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 13:36:31 GMT -5
I actually really liked the ending and didn't think it was a cop out at all. I dunno why people want to see someone get their head caved in that bad, when really only hearing it forces your brain to imagine something more horrific and gruesome than they could ever show on AMC. The guy from Vox had a way to do it even better though, which would have been to have it still be a cliffhanger, but instead of cutting to black the camera should have cut to Rick's reaction to whoever it was getting smashed. We'd still hear the sounds, but we'd also see how it affected Rick - especially since the crux of the story was about Rick's overconfidence and realizing how out of his depth he truly was with this. Still - the cutting to black and only hearing the sounds was pretty effective. I think people didn't really get to take it in because they were already bemoaning how they didn't get to see who it was, but the moment really lingered with me in an unsettling way. With no visual, it forces you to really listen & visualize for yourself what's happening. I think if they'd have actually shown it, it wouldn't have been as effective because S&P only lets them get away with so much. I don't get the big injustice that not showing who get smashed really was. Just seems like normal cliffhanger stuff that TV shows have done for the past 15 years. Are people really that upset they didn't get to see someone's head bashed in with a bat? Is it just bloodlust? Or is it more that they feel that the cliffhanger was pointless because spoilers will get out before the next season debuts? If that's the case - I still don't get it because everyone is so sensitive about spoilers these days. Like I said - I thought the feeling of helplessness & powerlessness that the ending instilled in people was exactly the kind of feeling that Negan was meant to instill in Rick's crew. I expected some amount of impotent rage online, as that's the intended affect, but I didn't expect the bloodlustiness of the responses. People just livid they didn't get to see the inside of someone's skull - which is just creepy. It has absolutely nothing to do with bloodlust and it's nowhere near as complicated as you're making it out to be. Simply, nearly everyone knew someone would be killed off when we met Negan (whether through word of mouth or because they follow the graphic novel) and the producers knew that this scene was highly anticipated. And instead of there being a mystery of whodunnit, there was a mystery of who gets killed. And we didn't get an answer. That's all it is; we didn't get a resolution and now have to wait six months to get an answer. So because it was a cliffhanger? I dunno - I guess that just doesn't bother me. That's normal for a TV show. Also, the crux of the second half of the season wasn't about that for me. It wasn't about "who gets murdered?" it was more about how Rick's hubris in facing the Saviors. This was the resolution of that. Rick realizing he's out manned, out gunned and out maneuvered and just helpless in every way possible. I feel like people are just upset that thing they expected because of the comics didn't go down the way they wanted - which is just a strange way to watch a TV show to me. But you can't say it wasn't about the blood lust for some people. Heck in this thread people were legit angry they specifically were saying they wanted to see someone get their head bashed in in a gruesome, bloody way - which hey, to each their own, but if they would have had Rick scream the person's name who was getting beat down and didn't actually show the brutality I feel like those people would still be upset.
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Post by Stu on Apr 5, 2016 13:50:36 GMT -5
It has absolutely nothing to do with bloodlust and it's nowhere near as complicated as you're making it out to be. Simply, nearly everyone knew someone would be killed off when we met Negan (whether through word of mouth or because they follow the graphic novel) and the producers knew that this scene was highly anticipated. And instead of there being a mystery of whodunnit, there was a mystery of who gets killed. And we didn't get an answer. That's all it is; we didn't get a resolution and now have to wait six months to get an answer. So because it was a cliffhanger? I dunno - I guess that just doesn't bother me. That's normal for a TV show. Also, the crux of the second half of the season wasn't about that for me. It wasn't about "who gets murdered?" it was more about how Rick's hubris in facing the Saviors. This was the resolution of that. Rick realizing he's out manned, out gunned and out maneuvered and just helpless in every way possible. I feel like people are just upset that thing they expected because of the comics didn't go down the way they wanted - which is just a strange way to watch a TV show to me. But you can't say it wasn't about the blood lust for some people. Heck in this thread people were legit angry they specifically were saying they wanted to see someone get their head bashed in in a gruesome, bloody way - which hey, to each their own, but if they would have had Rick scream the person's name who was getting beat down and didn't actually show the brutality I feel like those people would still be upset. The way you say it's about bloodlust makes it sound like they're psychopaths who like seeing people killed, and I doubt that's the case. As is mentioned here and in other forums, a lot of fans are frustrated that the main characters have seemingly become invincible and only new characters (some who are likable) are killed off. This deviates from the original idea that no characters were safe, which really kept viewers on the edge of their seat because it really felt like anything could happen. But that excitement disappeared and was replaced by frustration. If people want to see a main character die, it's not because they're psychopaths; they just want to see a return to the show's original concept.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 13:59:09 GMT -5
So because it was a cliffhanger? I dunno - I guess that just doesn't bother me. That's normal for a TV show. Also, the crux of the second half of the season wasn't about that for me. It wasn't about "who gets murdered?" it was more about how Rick's hubris in facing the Saviors. This was the resolution of that. Rick realizing he's out manned, out gunned and out maneuvered and just helpless in every way possible. I feel like people are just upset that thing they expected because of the comics didn't go down the way they wanted - which is just a strange way to watch a TV show to me. But you can't say it wasn't about the blood lust for some people. Heck in this thread people were legit angry they specifically were saying they wanted to see someone get their head bashed in in a gruesome, bloody way - which hey, to each their own, but if they would have had Rick scream the person's name who was getting beat down and didn't actually show the brutality I feel like those people would still be upset. The way you say it's about bloodlust makes it sound like they're psychopaths who like seeing people killed, and I doubt that's the case. As is mentioned here and in other forums, a lot of fans are frustrated that the main characters have seemingly become invincible and only new characters (some who are likable) are killed off. This deviates from the original idea that no characters were safe, which really kept viewers on the edge of their seat because it really felt like anything could happen. But that excitement disappeared and was replaced by frustration. If people want to see a main character die, it's not because they're psychopaths; they just want to see a return to the show's original concept. Its not like that - I mean, we all get the bloodlust sometimes. Its, in part, why we watch action and horror films. I'll definitely watch Hardcore Henry & Pandemic for the visceral/vicarious experience of rampaging just like anyone else - but my point was the lack thereof in a show or movie that's not built on that gimmick wouldn't ruin my experience. That's all I meant by that. But I take your point in regards to the "no characters are safe" thing. TWD has been building the tension on that one for a while now that I can see people getting frustrated with that aspect. It just seems like people put a lot of eggs in the basket of Negan's first appearance being the thing that rectifies that. Negan both in the comics & his aura on the show wasn't about that though. He was about dominating Rick and installing his new world order (tooo sweeeeeeet! as a wrestling fan, I chuckled when he said nwo in the show), not about a culling. Again, I get your point though, I just think being that angry about the season finale cliffhanger is strange - especially since someone did die and there's a pretty good chance it was a longstanding character with the way Rick was talking to Andrea about "it'll always be us" or whatever he said to her. I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's frustrations with finale, just trying to understand as all this rage seems to come out of nowhere to me. Its like people were expecting what happened in the comic, didn't get it and now are mad - which is a strange reaction to me.
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Perd
Patti Mayonnaise
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Posts: 32,071
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Post by Perd on Apr 5, 2016 14:18:46 GMT -5
While I agree the crux of this half season was about Rick's hubris. The price for that hubris, was supposed to manifest itself in the form of Negan. Rick's penance, and the groups as a whole really, is seeing one of their own die a horrible death. But to me, the took this moment, this moment that this all has been leading up to, and made it a, what is to me, a lame cliffhanger.
I said, in an earlier post, that not showing who met Lucille, made the scene lose the impact it was supposed to have. In the comics, you see who it is. A character that's been with us from the beginning. A character that screams his wife's name in his horrible final moments. And it's absolutely devastating. Having to wait six months makes the momen lose much of its emotional heft.
And they did the cliffhanger in a terribly hokey way. The POV took me out of the scene. The whole time I was thinking about the Joe Pesci Show.
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pegasuswarrior
El Dandy
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Post by pegasuswarrior on Apr 5, 2016 14:19:40 GMT -5
For what it's worth, I'm on Team Numero.
Ironically, only time will tell, but this was my least favorite season holistically. The plot holes were just too immense. I'm still playing suspension of disbelief and a fan role, but I hope they don't alienate me further.
EDIT: I almost did what I hate right there: a side swiping "I didn't like it" comment without actual decent backup to it. Love the Rick's hubris angle. But the sudden character shifts, I don't buy. Carol in a relationship. No. Rick completely dismisses Jessie and goes ga-ga in love for the third time? Ugh, no. Carol kills a kid and now 180s out of nowhere? Vince-level booking. The gang can self-sustain at a prison, but suddenly they forget how to grow their own food so they have to massacre a group because they don't know the concept of hoe, drop seed, cover, repeat? Rick's group inspiring so many native Alexanderian vigilante risk-taking mentalities? I don't get that either. Alexandria was thriving for how long without attacking anyone? I know, they couldn't sustain at that rate; but clearly the writers' development of all of this was way too quick on the throttle.
I don't mind changes in characters and directions in shows. But they're kinda doing stuff just because they can. They know they have their fanbase Grey's Anatomy-style at this point.
Still watching and not trying to trash it. I just left my comment in Paragraph Two hanging too much. I hate when people blanket statement something without good reason.
All that said, I'm a big fan of the "wait and see what happens" angle. If wrestling did this nowadays, I would be loving it. Fans need to slow their roll. Let me taste the food before someone punches me in the face and force-feeds me.
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Post by Stu on Apr 5, 2016 14:24:56 GMT -5
The way you say it's about bloodlust makes it sound like they're psychopaths who like seeing people killed, and I doubt that's the case. As is mentioned here and in other forums, a lot of fans are frustrated that the main characters have seemingly become invincible and only new characters (some who are likable) are killed off. This deviates from the original idea that no characters were safe, which really kept viewers on the edge of their seat because it really felt like anything could happen. But that excitement disappeared and was replaced by frustration. If people want to see a main character die, it's not because they're psychopaths; they just want to see a return to the show's original concept. Its not like that - I mean, we all get the bloodlust sometimes. Its, in part, why we watch action and horror films. I'll definitely watch Hardcore Henry & Pandemic for the visceral/vicarious experience of rampaging just like anyone else - but my point was the lack thereof in a show or movie that's not built on that gimmick wouldn't ruin my experience. That's all I meant by that. But I take your point in regards to the "no characters are safe" thing. TWD has been building the tension on that one for a while now that I can see people getting frustrated with that aspect. It just seems like people put a lot of eggs in the basket of Negan's first appearance being the thing that rectifies that. Negan both in the comics & his aura on the show wasn't about that though. He was about dominating Rick and installing his new world order (tooo sweeeeeeet! as a wrestling fan, I chuckled when he said nwo in the show), not about a culling. Again, I get your point though, I just think being that angry about the season finale cliffhanger is strange - especially since someone did die and there's a pretty good chance it was a longstanding character with the way Rick was talking to Andrea about "it'll always be us" or whatever he said to her. I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's frustrations with finale, just trying to understand as all this rage seems to come out of nowhere to me. Its like people were expecting what happened in the comic, didn't get it and now are mad - which is a strange reaction to me. Like I said, it was a highly anticipated moment. The best comparison I could use is wanting to know the identify of Cartman's dad, only to be thrown an episode of Terrance and Phillip. The cliffhanger could have worked if absolutely no one knew about Negan/Glenn. But we did know, and the producers knew we knew and that everyone wanted to see things played out. But it didn't happen.
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