Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 0:11:56 GMT -5
And this is why I said "most of these problems" and not "all of these problems." This thread isn't about rapists and Jared, though. As detestable as their actions are, this isn't the thread to talk about them in. As for my opinion on Zahra. What does firing her accomplish, really? You get her out of the WWE, but she'll still be a racist. She'll still have racist thoughts. So rather than her being a pro wrestler, she'll find another job, and carry that racism with her. Or maybe she'll eventually has kids and teach them the fundamentals of racism. In a professional context, I absolutely agree with WWE for firing her. But firing her isn't the answer to the real problem, because it doesn't get to the root of it. It's merely a Band-Aid for a gaping, gangrenous wound. Non-hostile dialogue, however, can get to the bottom of the problem and solve it. It'd probably take a lot of work in her case, but if it didn't work, the civil rights movement wouldn't be a thing. The issue of what type of dialogue is considered constructive in matters like this can be a vexing one in an age of instant communication. On the one hand, my first instinct is to agree: I'd rather assume a person says ignorant/offensive things from a place of ignorance, and not a place of malice or hatred, so I'd rather at least try to communicate politely first. On the other, such dialogue is often ineffective; it takes prolonged exposure to lived experiences around people of different backgrounds/sexualities/disabilities/etc. to get people to wise up on such matters, and attempts to be civil often get ignored. Hell, it's not like the civil rights movement was steeped in polite discourse in the face of overwhelming racism and apartheid oppression; a lot of the language used was filled with righteous anger, and patience for those who didn't "get it" was often thin. It's why I think it's kind of annoying when folks get pissy over somebody from a marginalized group "calling somebody out"; some of those folks typically put up with a lot, and don't always feel particularly inclined to engage civilly in the face of overt -isms. I guess, to put it more bluntly: I would much rather see this woman learn and grow as a person as a result of this than see her cost herself a potentially bright future. On the other hand, if some folks are going to address the matter in a way that may not seem "non-hostile", I don't particularly care if it hurts her feelings or something, because that's reaping what you sew. In the case of WWE itself, it unfortunately all boils down to what's best for their bottom line, and little else. It's true that it does often get ignored, but it's difficult to convince people of anything without persistence. This board is built on the premise that we don't all concede arguments, and that we argue frequently. Our opinions aren't static, and I think that we often change what we think based on what we read. She may be willing to do the same. Will she? I do not know, but I think it's worth a try. Balancing discourse and anger is important, and if the civil rights movement was just anger, it would've had a lot of trouble getting off the ground. In the case of most of these controversies, I see far more anger than I see civility. I see that in this controversy as well (not on this board, which is quite articulate, but on most social media). What does it accomplish? Do we successfully spread the message that racism is bad? Hopefully. But civil discourse could do that too. What it can also do, which raw anger cannot accomplish, is that it provides a "how" and a "why" for racism's awfulness. Anger has its uses, but overall, I really think it's a bit much in this case. It's not that hard for a huge group of people to influence a single person by taking the high road. |
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Lancers
El Dandy
Oh you
Posts: 7,951
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Post by Lancers on Aug 31, 2015 0:14:13 GMT -5
You can type folding cane around the filters. Not sure why you're describing her as one though. |
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Aug 31, 2015 0:27:45 GMT -5
You know Arby's is just biding its time now, making sound investments and will be buy all food sources by 2019 to make the non-believers pay. Yeah they played nice with Jon Stewart and Seth Rollins but its all just to fool us all. Our day is coming and it will be catered with dry roast beef and curly fries. f*** their curly fries! I haven't been to Arby's in years, and the last time I went was after they got rid of their natural fries to push their curly fries. Curly fries are the lifeblood of Arby's. I could go anywhere else if I wanted "normal" fries. |
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Post by Speedy Cerviche on Aug 31, 2015 0:29:36 GMT -5
 Zahra must have made this gif. Gif of the century |
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Post by EoE: Workin On My Night Cheese on Aug 31, 2015 0:31:15 GMT -5
 LOCAL USER Daddy Demented SHOCKS THE WORLD ACE REPORTER MADLIBS IS ON THE SCOOP LIES AND SLANDER! Yeah! They were a modest C cup at the most. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 1:19:16 GMT -5
I think rapist and child molesters should be locked up for life away from society Jared from subway is a sub human pos and should never see the light of day A racist is a racist. But they can learn. A rapist is a rapist for life. And this is why I said "most of these problems" and not "all of these problems." This thread isn't about rapists and Jared, though. As detestable as their actions are, this isn't the thread to talk about them in. As for my opinion on Zahra. What does firing her accomplish, really? You get her out of the WWE, but she'll still be a racist. She'll still have racist thoughts. So rather than her being a pro wrestler, she'll find another job, and carry that racism with her. Or maybe she'll eventually has kids and teach them the fundamentals of racism. In a professional context, I absolutely agree with WWE for firing her. But firing her isn't the answer to the real problem, because it doesn't get to the root of it. It's merely a Band-Aid for a gaping, gangrenous wound. Non-hostile dialogue, however, can get to the bottom of the problem and solve it. It'd probably take a lot of work in her case, but if it didn't work, the civil rights movement wouldn't be a thing. This is pretty much where I sit. The burning question is what does the general public get out of Zahra being fired? A woman is out of work and out of our minds forever. I'm not of the opinion that it's particularly righteous to demand someone lose their job based on a twitter feed. If she's really that awful in the real world she wouldn't be able to hold a job anywhere. Given the time between when these tweets happened and now I don't think it's right to fire first and ask questions later. It's a terrible defense but some people are just terrible at conveying humor online and for all we know she's trying to "work blue" without really being funny, which I believe to be the case with Havok more than here, but still. People online just don't know the full story so as bad as it looks we can't know if those tweets reflect her true self, or if she's done some growing up since then. In my eyes what's done is done and WWE can do what they want with that. |
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Aug 31, 2015 2:08:53 GMT -5
I mean they fired Daniel Bryan INSTANTLY for pretending to be too violent in a violent uprising segment. Like Hugh Morris earlier, this is the real stain on their public image and the stuff they need to get rid of. She should be fired because she doesn't deserve to be a presence in a company that so highly needs to try to juggle public perception.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847 
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Post by Reflecto on Aug 31, 2015 2:47:31 GMT -5
The issue of what type of dialogue is considered constructive in matters like this can be a vexing one in an age of instant communication. On the one hand, my first instinct is to agree: I'd rather assume a person says ignorant/offensive things from a place of ignorance, and not a place of malice or hatred, so I'd rather at least try to communicate politely first. On the other, such dialogue is often ineffective; it takes prolonged exposure to lived experiences around people of different backgrounds/sexualities/disabilities/etc. to get people to wise up on such matters, and attempts to be civil often get ignored. Hell, it's not like the civil rights movement was steeped in polite discourse in the face of overwhelming racism and apartheid oppression; a lot of the language used was filled with righteous anger, and patience for those who didn't "get it" was often thin. It's why I think it's kind of annoying when folks get pissy over somebody from a marginalized group "calling somebody out"; some of those folks typically put up with a lot, and don't always feel particularly inclined to engage civilly in the face of overt -isms. I guess, to put it more bluntly: I would much rather see this woman learn and grow as a person as a result of this than see her cost herself a potentially bright future. On the other hand, if some folks are going to address the matter in a way that may not seem "non-hostile", I don't particularly care if it hurts her feelings or something, because that's reaping what you sew. In the case of WWE itself, it unfortunately all boils down to what's best for their bottom line, and little else. But that ties into the other side of how problematic behaviors have changed with the rise of the Internet...that just can't happen this way. In the Internet era where everything problematic a person's done is a Google search away, none of it changes. With things where there is a righteous anger about it happening, it does become, for this example, "once a racist, always a racist"- and even if Schreiber leaves the WWE and dedicates the rest of her life to social equality, she'd still be judged by the Internet for these comments for all of eternity. If this woman did learn and grow as a person as a result of this- whether she loses her job over it or not- it may not matter because we've seen enough of how this story goes in the Internet era to know the ending is that people won't LET her learn from her mistakes and grow as a person. |
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,322
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Post by chazraps on Aug 31, 2015 2:56:15 GMT -5
I just want to mention something since this has been a trend lately, and please don't think I'm defending Hulk Hogan's or Zahra Schreiber's comments because I'm absolutely not, but I'm more than a little concerned about this "bringing up comments made years ago and destroying people's careers/lives for it" trend. Don't get me wrong, racism is awful and nobody should hate or look down towards anyone else because of how they look, but this feels like a witch hunt to me. This is truth. It is disturbing, especially as was said earlier in this thread, the peoplebdoing it likely have said and done horrible things themselves that are just as bad. We are humans, we're horrid creatures. Hardly a shock. So long as they do not hurt someone then I don't care. Opinions are still allowed. We're not horrid creatures. Some of us say and do terrible things. The majority of us seem pretty great, if not morally ambiguous. Lighten up, buttercup. |
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Aug 31, 2015 3:12:35 GMT -5
This is truth. It is disturbing, especially as was said earlier in this thread, the peoplebdoing it likely have said and done horrible things themselves that are just as bad. We are humans, we're horrid creatures. Hardly a shock. So long as they do not hurt someone then I don't care. Opinions are still allowed. We're not horrid creatures. Some of us say and do terrible things. The majority of us seem pretty great, if not morally ambiguous. Lighten up, buttercup. Can you imagine negative political ads in 40-60 years, now that everyone's teenage years are preserved publicly for eternity through social media? |
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Post by Session Moth is over on Aug 31, 2015 3:12:37 GMT -5
Do you believe right now that she is sitting at home thinking to herself that she has done wrong here and needs to make improvements in her life or do you believe she is angry at the people that brought this to the wider publics attention. Because that right there will tell whether she is worth keeping.
Also while she posted some terrible stuff the post she made with the two lightning bolts and the man with the gun facing him is the most disturbing of all.
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Post by virgil on Aug 31, 2015 3:15:16 GMT -5
What are the odds if she makes it to the next NXT tapings, Full Sail chants "She's a racist"?
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Aug 31, 2015 3:28:54 GMT -5
Do you believe right now that she is sitting at home thinking to herself that she has done wrong here and needs to make improvements in her life or do you believe she is angry at the people that brought this to the wider publics attention. Because that right there will tell whether she is worth keeping. Also while she posted some terrible stuff the post she made with the two lightning bolts and the man with the gun facing him is the most disturbing of all. That depends. How recent were these posts? If she's angry at the people who brought this up, there's a possibility that she already "thought to herself that she did wrong" a long time ago and now she's pissed that someone felt the need to go back years for no reason other than to look for dirt. No one just "randomly" finds this stuff. They find it because that's what they wanted to find. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 3:40:07 GMT -5
Do you believe right now that she is sitting at home thinking to herself that she has done wrong here and needs to make improvements in her life or do you believe she is angry at the people that brought this to the wider publics attention. Because that right there will tell whether she is worth keeping. Also while she posted some terrible stuff the post she made with the two lightning bolts and the man with the gun facing him is the most disturbing of all. That depends. How recent were these posts? If she's angry at the people who brought this up, there's a possibility that she already "thought to herself that she did wrong" a long time ago and now she's pissed that someone felt the need to go back years for no reason other than to look for dirt. No one just "randomly" finds this stuff. They find it because that's what they wanted to find. Or they could have just been looking for some other old random Tweet and stumbled across something that put them on the trail or something. And really, posting racist shit isn't justified just because it took someone awhile to notice. I mean, I personally don't think something like this should be a fireable offense really, but she is indeed an idiot for putting it out there for people to see. And I do think she should be fired since Hogan was, since otherwise it just comes off as, "We fired him because he's a big enough name to get media attention." |
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Post by Aboutreika18 on Aug 31, 2015 4:51:12 GMT -5
I just want to mention something since this has been a trend lately, and please don't think I'm defending Hulk Hogan's or Zahra Schreiber's comments because I'm absolutely not, but I'm more than a little concerned about this "bringing up comments made years ago and destroying people's careers/lives for it" trend. Don't get me wrong, racism is awful and nobody should hate or look down towards anyone else because of how they look, but this feels like a witch hunt to me. This is truth. It is disturbing, especially as was said earlier in this thread, the peoplebdoing it likely have said and done horrible things themselves that are just as bad. We are humans, we're horrid creatures. Hardly a shock. So long as they do not hurt someone then I don't care. Opinions are still allowed. Oh, don't you try and pull this "humans are evil" shtick again. Didn't you learn anything from the last time you were banned? |
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Palmer
Trap-Jaw
Noodlemania
Posts: 267
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Post by Palmer on Aug 31, 2015 4:57:22 GMT -5
This "I'm sure you've said bad things in private" excuse is BS. I've said some questionable things, sure. I've never once said any of the crap coming from Zahra or Hogan. I'm an asshole, but I'm not a terrible person like they are. If you can relate to them saying and doing what they did, you're probably as bad as they are. It does NOT mean everyone is like that.
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Magnus the Magnificent
King Koopa
didn't want one.
I could write a book about what you don't know!
Posts: 12,656
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Aug 31, 2015 5:02:04 GMT -5
How long until the "sorry you got offended" non-apology?
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Post by ben:friendship frog on Aug 31, 2015 5:04:23 GMT -5
She appears to be blocking everyone on Twitter who talks about it
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Aug 31, 2015 5:28:14 GMT -5
She's turned her twitter and instagram accounts private, if that's noteworthy. Kinda throwing water on a grease fire, isn't it? |
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Post by idislikeeverything on Aug 31, 2015 5:33:37 GMT -5
This is truth. It is disturbing, especially as was said earlier in this thread, the peoplebdoing it likely have said and done horrible things themselves that are just as bad. We are humans, we're horrid creatures. Hardly a shock. So long as they do not hurt someone then I don't care. Opinions are still allowed. Oh, don't you try and pull this "humans are evil" shtick again. Didn't you learn anything from the last time you were banned? Opinions aren't allowed? Yeah, I learned that well here. Thanks for taking an interest. |
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