Burst
El Dandy
*inarticulate squawking*
Posts: 8,599
Member is Online
|
Post by Burst on Oct 28, 2015 6:15:43 GMT -5
Seriously, what was this notion (which fortunately seems to be if not dead, then not nearly as prevalent) ever supposed to accomplish? I'm thinking of a lot of pre-NXT roster call-ups, mainly to WWECW, where the thought process seemed to be "let's get rid of everything that made you unique on the indies, TNA, Japan, wherever, and have you start as generic as possible. What do you mean you can't get over with no character, what kind of terrible wrestler are you?" Basically, it seemed like a form of setting someone up to fail in a way where they could blame the wrestler afterwards for not magically getting over on their own. You saw this with the neutering of movesets, directions not to wrestle as well as the 'better' wrestlers even if they were known to have done so on the indies or wherever, and with the generic create-a-wrestler outfit generator. Say what you will about his qualities as a wrestler (I for one think he's improved immensely in NJPW) but an excellent example of this is "INTENSE" Vance Archer. In TNA, he had a pretty distinct look, a distinct gimmick, and some impressive power moves like the Texas Tower Bomb. In ECW, we traded that away for very plain black tights (I honestly forgot that he didn't start in trunks), no long hair,the bland reverse DDT that gets around almost as much as the Complete Shot, and, well, INTENSE.  vs  and  Tramp stamp nonwithstanding, early ECW Vance Archer is honestly one of the most generic-looking superstars to wrestle in modern-day WWE, and that's saying a lot. I'm just glad that for the most part, the WWE seems to have moved past this, in the sense that people's gimmicks from NXT have been coming onto the main roster without being completely annihilated, at least. Obviously it's not perfect but it's certainly better than it was. |
|
|
|
Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Oct 28, 2015 6:44:23 GMT -5
I'm just gonna come out and say it, Vance Archer early in his ECW run looked like he should've been appearing on Crimewatch as a wanted rapist. Actually, holy shit, I just realised something:   It all makes sense now. |
|
|
|
Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Oct 28, 2015 7:07:45 GMT -5
I always hate when WWE debut a guy and make him wrestle a boring, methodical style with no moves. Then when they fail to get over and become jobbers, WWE bizarrely let's them wrestle again and they become good.
See Burchill. On Raw he was shit and just used punches and kicks. Jobber Burchill ob ECW was awesome using brainbusters, pele kicks, moonsaults, suplexes etc.
Why not debut him as the 6'4 guy hitting a pele kick and moonsault rather than waiting until the crowd don't give a f***?
|
|
Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
|
Post by Bub (BLM) on Oct 28, 2015 8:44:58 GMT -5
I always hate when WWE debut a guy and make him wrestle a boring, methodical style with no moves. Then when they fail to get over and become jobbers, WWE bizarrely let's them wrestle again and they become good. See Burchill. On Raw he was shit and just used punches and kicks. Jobber Burchill ob ECW was awesome using brainbusters, pele kicks, moonsaults, suplexes etc. Why not debut him as the 6'4 guy hitting a pele kick and moonsault rather than waiting until the crowd don't give a f***? They did the same thing with Drew McIntyre. We all thought he was shit because he did nothing but kick and punch then hit his finisher. Then he becomes a nobody and has killer matches on Superstars every week. Then there was that Elimination Chamber where he was just a freaking beast of Cesaro proportions that they didn't capitalize on. |
|
|
|
Post by Big Bad Kahuna on Oct 28, 2015 8:56:26 GMT -5
I always hate when WWE debut a guy and make him wrestle a boring, methodical style with no moves. Then when they fail to get over and become jobbers, WWE bizarrely let's them wrestle again and they become good. See Burchill. On Raw he was shit and just used punches and kicks. Jobber Burchill ob ECW was awesome using brainbusters, pele kicks, moonsaults, suplexes etc. Why not debut him as the 6'4 guy hitting a pele kick and moonsault rather than waiting until the crowd don't give a f***? They did the same thing with Drew McIntyre. We all thought he was shit because he did nothing but kick and punch then hit his finisher. Then he becomes a nobody and has killer matches on Superstars every week. Then there was that Elimination Chamber where he was just a freaking beast of Cesaro proportions that they didn't capitalize on. They did the same thing with Sylvester Terkay (albeit probably a less talented guy than Drew), who was as generic as they come thanks to no gimmick/special maneuvres. His partner got over a bit and they ran with him... Also Ryan Braddock, Gavin Spears, Tyler Reks solo run... |
|
|
|
Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Oct 28, 2015 9:13:04 GMT -5
I always hate when WWE debut a guy and make him wrestle a boring, methodical style with no moves. Then when they fail to get over and become jobbers, WWE bizarrely let's them wrestle again and they become good. See Burchill. On Raw he was shit and just used punches and kicks. Jobber Burchill ob ECW was awesome using brainbusters, pele kicks, moonsaults, suplexes etc. Why not debut him as the 6'4 guy hitting a pele kick and moonsault rather than waiting until the crowd don't give a f***? They did the same thing with Drew McIntyre. We all thought he was shit because he did nothing but kick and punch then hit his finisher. Then he becomes a nobody and has killer matches on Superstars every week. Then there was that Elimination Chamber where he was just a freaking beast of Cesaro proportions that they didn't capitalize on. Yeah he's another good example. Shit when they give him a push thanks to his dull, methodical style and then once WWE stop giving a crap and he's free to actually wrestle he becomes great. It's baffling choice really. How does WWE expect a guy to get over with a slow, shit, plodding, boring style? |
|
|
|
Post by rydndirty on Oct 28, 2015 9:23:35 GMT -5
I always hate when WWE debut a guy and make him wrestle a boring, methodical style with no moves. Then when they fail to get over and become jobbers, WWE bizarrely let's them wrestle again and they become good. See Burchill. On Raw he was shit and just used punches and kicks. Jobber Burchill ob ECW was awesome using brainbusters, pele kicks, moonsaults, suplexes etc. Why not debut him as the 6'4 guy hitting a pele kick and moonsault rather than waiting until the crowd don't give a f***? They did the same thing with Drew McIntyre. We all thought he was shit because he did nothing but kick and punch then hit his finisher. Then he becomes a nobody and has killer matches on Superstars every week. Then there was that Elimination Chamber where he was just a freaking beast of Cesaro proportions that they didn't capitalize on. I remember that Chamber match. Drew was on FIRE. How they didn't let him be THAT guy, I'll never know. I wasn't the biggest McIntyre fan but that one match quickly changed my mind. It's too bad he didn't change the mind of the office. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2015 10:42:33 GMT -5
They did the same thing with Drew McIntyre. We all thought he was shit because he did nothing but kick and punch then hit his finisher. Then he becomes a nobody and has killer matches on Superstars every week. Then there was that Elimination Chamber where he was just a freaking beast of Cesaro proportions that they didn't capitalize on. I remember that Chamber match. Drew was on FIRE. How they didn't let him be THAT guy, I'll never know. I wasn't the biggest McIntyre fan but that one match quickly changed my mind. It's too bad he didn't change the mind of the office. If its the one I'm thinking of, I was there live for that EC match in Oakland and can agree - the dude was seriously amazing in that match. |
|
|
|
Post by Hit Girl on Oct 28, 2015 10:48:25 GMT -5
Everyone should be equipped with a well-considered gimmick designed to sell tickets, attract viewers and move merchandise.
It should be done in consultation with the wrestler, to find out what their natural personality is, and then build on that.
The vignettes and announcing should hype the person as someone worth caring about, even if it's just a comedy gimmick for a lower carder. Those people are essential too.
It might not always give you the result you want. In those cases, you listen to the fans and make adjustments. That's part of wrestling. Moving according to reactions. Listening to feedback. Changing as required.
|
|
chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 85,154 
|
Post by chrom on Oct 28, 2015 13:50:28 GMT -5
Whatever happened to vignettes and promos hyping up guys who were set to debut thus clueing us in on their character and why they were here?
Nowadays it's "Go out there with no introduction or hype and if you're not over in fifteen seconds, it's not our fault." And lest we forget "Being black is your gimmick."
|
|
|
|
Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Oct 28, 2015 13:53:45 GMT -5
They did the same thing with Drew McIntyre. We all thought he was shit because he did nothing but kick and punch then hit his finisher. Then he becomes a nobody and has killer matches on Superstars every week. Then there was that Elimination Chamber where he was just a freaking beast of Cesaro proportions that they didn't capitalize on. Yeah he's another good example. Shit when they give him a push thanks to his dull, methodical style and then once WWE stop giving a crap and he's free to actually wrestle he becomes great. It's baffling choice really. How does WWE expect a guy to get over with a slow, shit, plodding, boring style? Something probably to do with Randy Orton theory of heel wrestling. Chinlocks and stomps for everyone. |
|
CMWaters
Ozymandius
Rolled a Seven, Beat the Ads.
Bald and busy
Posts: 63,109
|
Post by CMWaters on Oct 28, 2015 13:53:32 GMT -5
Whatever happened to vignettes and promos hyping up guys who were set to debut thus clueing us in on their character and why they were here? Nowadays it's "Go out there with no introduction or hype and if you're not over in fifteen seconds, it's not our fault." And lest we forget "Being black is your gimmick." They did have a bit of a comeback on the main roster with Carlito and Del Rio, plus on NXT we've had a few, most recently with Nia Jax. |
|
|
|
Post by Joe Neglia on Oct 28, 2015 15:42:40 GMT -5
Whatever happened to vignettes and promos hyping up guys who were set to debut thus clueing us in on their character and why they were here? Adam Rose happened. No, but seriously, along with Rose, we had them for the Wyatts (which REALLY hyped him up very well), Tensai, Los Matadores, Ascension all got them. Fandango got some, but I think it mostly limited to his name ("Fandango is coming") and maybe his feet dancing. I think Rusev (post-Rumble debut, pre-regular roster) and Damien Sandow got some. In NXT Owens got them. |
|
Burst
El Dandy
*inarticulate squawking*
Posts: 8,599
Member is Online
|
Post by Burst on Oct 28, 2015 15:50:02 GMT -5
Yeah, the WWE's been a lot better with vignettes since... pretty much the end of WWECW. I almost want to say Sheamus was the last non-NXT person to debut on the roster without any fanfare or explanation.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mister Pigwell on Oct 28, 2015 15:54:24 GMT -5
Whatever happened to vignettes and promos hyping up guys who were set to debut thus clueing us in on their character and why they were here? Adam Rose happened. No, but seriously, along with Rose, we had them for the Wyatts (which REALLY hyped him up very well), Tensai, Los Matadores, Ascension all got them. Fandango got some, but I think it mostly limited to his name ("Fandango is coming") and maybe his feet dancing. I think Rusev (post-Rumble debut, pre-regular roster) and Damien Sandow got some. In NXT Owens got them. Literally in the last month Nia Jax as well. |
|
thirteen3
Dennis Stamp
posted with a broken freakin neck keyboard
Posts: 3,821
Member is Online
|
Post by thirteen3 on Oct 28, 2015 16:18:35 GMT -5
It's a legacy of Johnny Ace copying Puro's Young Boy dealy.
What's a Young Boy you ask? In Japan newbie wrestlers start out with short haircuts, black little wrestling boots and black trunks, come out to bland entrance music and wrestle bland matches. They do this for a couple of years and are then allowed to show some personality.
|
|
Burst
El Dandy
*inarticulate squawking*
Posts: 8,599
Member is Online
|
Post by Burst on Oct 28, 2015 16:33:24 GMT -5
It's a legacy of Johnny Ace copying Puro's Young Boy dealy. What's a Young Boy you ask? In Japan newbie wrestlers start out with short haircuts, black little wrestling boots and black trunks, come out to bland entrance music and wrestle bland matches. They do this for a couple of years and are then allowed to show some personality. Which is how we went from  to  I know Japan has always done it, but it's one thing if these are complete newbies to wrestling period, which I was under the impression most of the "Young Boys" were/are, and it's another thing if you're doing it to people that are well experienced and have been competing on televised wrestling or what have you for extended periods already. It's also frankly another form of the old school "beat 'respectin' the bizness' into you through hazing and humiliation' ideal that's completely petty and outdated in 2015. |
|
