Talent Name
Ozymandius
Got fined anyway.
Possibly a Moose
James Franco is the white Donald Glover
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Post by Talent Name on Nov 16, 2015 23:36:48 GMT -5
For the ones giving WWE slack for Eddie and Reid exploitation, they never used Owen in that light, they never used Pillman in that light (as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong). That should be the rule. Cody and Dustin didn't want Dusty to be used in that light either |
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Post by Richard on Nov 16, 2015 23:41:58 GMT -5
I won't deny that at all (though I thought they talked about it the night Paige turned heel briefly, not enough for this though). I'm just saying that what we saw is wrestling, it is reality TV, it is sports, it is entertainment. It is something that has been used since the dawn of time and to act like WWE did something completely unheard of or out of the realm of what has been shown as acceptable (which is what most of the arguments seem to be to me) is just not right or fair. Well, I think part of it is that we really don't trust this company to go down this road from what we've seen in the past. Most of us have seen Eddiesplotation once already, so if they managed to take the red hot NXT Divas Division and make it completely boring on the main roster, why would we trust them with such heavy subject matter again? That is fair. It could completely blow up in their faces, since they've come up though, I think this is the best thing they've done for them. It isn't everything you saw before sucked, it isn't gang wars, it isn't Total Divas means I'm better, it is depth to these ladies which has been missing since NXT, IMO. It should not have come to this, nor should it have been a one night, one segment thing though. |
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Phil Parent
El Dandy
Your Favourite Teacher
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Post by Phil Parent on Nov 16, 2015 23:53:18 GMT -5
The Reid reference would have been a cruel, but effective, heel remark, but they just haven't established any significant friendship between Paige and Charlotte to make their eventual rivalry pay off. PCB was an on-screen faction for a cup of coffee before Paige turned on them. Then they come up with backstory bullshit about how close they were. It just doesn't work. WWE never understand that. They'll show two random guys forming a team, then break up a week later, then say "these two guys have been friends for decades, how can X turn on Y???" It's shitty, lazy, contrived writing. I agree. I'm really into Puro stuff at the moment since I do a puroresu project with the WWE video game. The best heel turn in the history of Puroresu, IMO, was Kensuke Sasaki's. Why? Well, because he had been this New Japan hero for 15 years. This was established. At the end of those 16 years, he had taken younger wrestlers under his wing to show them the way. Well, Sasaki left. When his mentor Riki Choshu left the company, he left it with him and left his "kids" behind to get slaughtered. He was away from New Japan for a year and when he came back in 2004, people wanted him dead. They tossed crap at him. The booed him, in Japan that's quite something. They used continuity: when he made his entrance for his first match back, they had his old pupils walk towards him up the ramp as he was coming down, having to be held back. And then when Yuji Nagata, the ultimate New Japan hero now, got his hands on him, it ended in a blood bath. Now that's believable. WWE is booking with the mindset that everybody has very short attention spans, which is both untrue and counterproductive. |
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Post by mhamm05 on Nov 17, 2015 0:01:51 GMT -5
The Reid reference would have been a cruel, but effective, heel remark, but they just haven't established any significant friendship between Paige and Charlotte to make their eventual rivalry pay off. PCB was an on-screen faction for a cup of coffee before Paige turned on them. Then they come up with backstory bullshit about how close they were. It just doesn't work. WWE never understand that. They'll show two random guys forming a team, then break up a week later, then say "these two guys have been friends for decades, how can X turn on Y???" It's shitty, lazy, contrived writing. I agree. I'm really into Puro stuff at the moment since I do a puroresu project with the WWE video game. The best heel turn in the history of Puroresu, IMO, was Kensuke Sasaki's. Why? Well, because he had been this New Japan hero for 15 years. This was established. At the end of those 16 years, he had taken younger wrestlers under his wing to show them the way. Well, Sasaki left. When his mentor Riki Choshu left the company, he left it with him and left his "kids" behind to get slaughtered. He was away from New Japan for a year and when he came back in 2004, people wanted him dead. They tossed crap at him. The booed him, in Japan that's quite something. They used continuity: when he made his entrance for his first match back, they had his old pupils walk towards him up the ramp as he was coming down, having to be held back. And then when Yuji Nagata, the ultimate New Japan hero now, got his hands on him, it ended in a blood bath. Now that's believable. WWE is booking with the mindset that everybody has very short attention spans, which is both untrue and counterproductive. Off-topic, but what event is said bloodbath? I would like to see this. |
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Nov 17, 2015 0:10:51 GMT -5
The Reid reference would have been a cruel, but effective, heel remark, but they just haven't established any significant friendship between Paige and Charlotte to make their eventual rivalry pay off. PCB was an on-screen faction for a cup of coffee before Paige turned on them. Then they come up with backstory bullshit about how close they were. It just doesn't work. WWE never understand that. They'll show two random guys forming a team, then break up a week later, then say "these two guys have been friends for decades, how can X turn on Y???" It's shitty, lazy, contrived writing. I agree. I'm really into Puro stuff at the moment since I do a puroresu project with the WWE video game. The best heel turn in the history of Puroresu, IMO, was Kensuke Sasaki's. Why? Well, because he had been this New Japan hero for 15 years. This was established. At the end of those 16 years, he had taken younger wrestlers under his wing to show them the way. Well, Sasaki left. When his mentor Riki Choshu left the company, he left it with him and left his "kids" behind to get slaughtered. He was away from New Japan for a year and when he came back in 2004, people wanted him dead. They tossed crap at him. The booed him, in Japan that's quite something. They used continuity: when he made his entrance for his first match back, they had his old pupils walk towards him up the ramp as he was coming down, having to be held back. And then when Yuji Nagata, the ultimate New Japan hero now, got his hands on him, it ended in a blood bath. Now that's believable. WWE is booking with the mindset that everybody has very short attention spans, which is both untrue and counterproductive. Make a few changes here and there, and it sounds like the template for a hypothetical Cena turn. |
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Phil Parent
El Dandy
Your Favourite Teacher
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Phil Parent on Nov 17, 2015 0:25:50 GMT -5
I agree. I'm really into Puro stuff at the moment since I do a puroresu project with the WWE video game. The best heel turn in the history of Puroresu, IMO, was Kensuke Sasaki's. Why? Well, because he had been this New Japan hero for 15 years. This was established. At the end of those 16 years, he had taken younger wrestlers under his wing to show them the way. Well, Sasaki left. When his mentor Riki Choshu left the company, he left it with him and left his "kids" behind to get slaughtered. He was away from New Japan for a year and when he came back in 2004, people wanted him dead. They tossed crap at him. The booed him, in Japan that's quite something. They used continuity: when he made his entrance for his first match back, they had his old pupils walk towards him up the ramp as he was coming down, having to be held back. And then when Yuji Nagata, the ultimate New Japan hero now, got his hands on him, it ended in a blood bath. Now that's believable. WWE is booking with the mindset that everybody has very short attention spans, which is both untrue and counterproductive. Off-topic, but what event is said bloodbath? I would like to see this. It happened in 2004. I would wager that they put this on their annual January 4th show. Kensuke Sasaki VS Yuji Nagata, the "Life Or Death" Match. It is on Youtube but the entrances are cut, which is a shame because there's lots of drama and intensity in them. And the quality is quite crappy. I have this on DVD. |
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Post by mrtuesday on Nov 17, 2015 7:28:51 GMT -5
I agree. I'm really into Puro stuff at the moment since I do a puroresu project with the WWE video game. The best heel turn in the history of Puroresu, IMO, was Kensuke Sasaki's. Why? Well, because he had been this New Japan hero for 15 years. This was established. At the end of those 16 years, he had taken younger wrestlers under his wing to show them the way. Well, Sasaki left. When his mentor Riki Choshu left the company, he left it with him and left his "kids" behind to get slaughtered. He was away from New Japan for a year and when he came back in 2004, people wanted him dead. They tossed crap at him. The booed him, in Japan that's quite something. They used continuity: when he made his entrance for his first match back, they had his old pupils walk towards him up the ramp as he was coming down, having to be held back. And then when Yuji Nagata, the ultimate New Japan hero now, got his hands on him, it ended in a blood bath. Now that's believable. WWE is booking with the mindset that everybody has very short attention spans, which is both untrue and counterproductive. Make a few changes here and there, and it sounds like the template for a hypothetical Cena turn. Cena letting his friends be attacked by people and not saving them is his thing, though. In fact, the friends that were attacked are seen as in the wrong for not being able to fight them all off single-handed like SuperCena can. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2015 8:00:31 GMT -5
Make a few changes here and there, and it sounds like the template for a hypothetical Cena turn. Cena letting his friends be attacked by people and not saving them is his thing, though. In fact, the friends that were attacked are seen as in the wrong for not being able to fight them all off single-handed like SuperCena can. I still am hung up on how stupid it was when they had Cena save Ryback from the Shield then immediately attack him afterward. It would have done so much to salvage that stupid feud and stupid heel turn if they'd had Cena save him and just walk away, making the point of, "There, I've done what you wanted and extended an olive branch," and had Ryback keep going after him anyway. Instead, nope, feud where the heel's entirely in the right (and won their first match even though they kept acting like he didn't) and we're just supposed to ignore it. |
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Woo on Nov 17, 2015 11:49:49 GMT -5
"Emotion"
Does screaming at each other reflect emotion? Because if it does then I don't want it.
Yeah Charlotte cried but really, to bring that into the feud and make it a center point? That's low grade and desperate.
Anger over Paige's comments, sadness over Charlotte losing her brother, desire to see Charlotte beat Paige into some sort of British themed dessert at Survivor Series. They're using Charlotte's real life to play on peoples' emotions. What they did is classic wrestling. If it is low brow to you (in general) fine but this is the entertainment industry, wrestling in particular and it usually sells. Nobody is mad at Paige, they are mad at the WWE. It'd be as if in the next Fast and the Furious movie the Rock asks Vin Diesel where his mate is and goes "Oh right, he's dead!!" Nobody would be angry at the Rock, they'd be furious at the scriptwriters. |
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Post by mhamm05 on Nov 17, 2015 12:01:48 GMT -5
Off-topic, but what event is said bloodbath? I would like to see this. It happened in 2004. I would wager that they put this on their annual January 4th show. Kensuke Sasaki VS Yuji Nagata, the "Life Or Death" Match. It is on Youtube but the entrances are cut, which is a shame because there's lots of drama and intensity in them. And the quality is quite crappy. I have this on DVD. Nice. Might have to see if I can find the DVD of this. Sounds like an interesting storyline to say the least. |
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Post by PsychoGoatee on Nov 17, 2015 16:28:53 GMT -5
I liked RAW, was a good show with several very good matches. I also didn't mind how it seemed to have a random order to it. Ending on the hype of the Diva's title match is not something I would have predicted, but I like it.
As for the tasteless mentioning of real life tragedy in Charlotte's family, I'm not looking too deeply at that. I know she and Ric would had to agree to it, and I wouldn't even be surprised if it was their idea. A kind of carny oldschool wrestler thing, using anything for heat in a storyline. So I won't delve into the behind the scenes, but I thought the segment worked very well and I'm looking forward to their match.
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Post by hbkid718 on Nov 17, 2015 16:39:31 GMT -5
Yes, it's tasteless for using Reid in that manner. But the writers asked Charlotte and she gave them her permission, therefore I'm OK with it. It added much needed heat to Paige. I wasn't looking forward to this angle, but this made me want to tune in to see what Charlotte will do to Paige. And that's exactly what the whole point of the angle was. It got people talking about it. More people are talking about it then the World Title Tournament Matches, which were awesome matches. Also, it was the 1st time that the Diva's closed Raw since Stephanie VS Brie's Contract Signing for SummerSlam 2014.
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