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Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 2, 2015 17:00:59 GMT -5
If he said make a roster with 2 million dollar spending cap, that is fantasy. He said replenish TNA's roster on a shoestring budget. That leaves no room for fantasy unless the names mentioned are the $5 Dollar Wrestling roster. I get that TNA is on a "shoestring budget", but saying they can only afford the likes of Freight Train sounds pretty hyperbolic. On a shoestring budget it's not. Can't get decent names for less than scale. TNA used to able to do that. Not anymore when there are plenty of better opportunities and paydays out there.
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Post by benstudd on Dec 3, 2015 0:34:01 GMT -5
They should re-do whatever that was where they had a sort of segment on Impact inviting indie guys and judging them. I don't remember the name but it was sort of cool. The talent there wasn't all bad. They had Adam Pierce, they just chose to not keep him. There was this guy playing the guitar who was pretty old school. The gimmick sucked but he wasn't all bad.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 3, 2015 0:42:53 GMT -5
No serious indy guy would want to work there. Let's forget about the tna stink, it is a known fact that Dixie Carter is not a good leader and is a worse human being. Who would want to get involved in that?
If you get injured they won't take care of you. If you get hep b they won't take care of you and will fire you.
Ask Daffney, ask Sorensen, ask Nigel...
Creatively they have also f***ed a lot of people. The young bucks and Okada for example.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 3, 2015 0:51:46 GMT -5
No serious indy guy would want to work there. Let's forget about the tna stink, it is a known fact that Dixie Carter is not a good leader and is a worse human being. Who would want to get involved in that? If you get injured they won't take care of you. If you get hep b they won't take care of you and will fire you. Ask Daffney, ask Sorensen, ask Nigel... Creatively they have also f***ed a lot of people. The young bucks and Okada for example. Okada was SUPPOSED to get f***ed creatively. New Japan sent him to TNA to learn humility and pay his dues before they made him a star.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 3, 2015 1:01:39 GMT -5
No serious indy guy would want to work there. Let's forget about the tna stink, it is a known fact that Dixie Carter is not a good leader and is a worse human being. Who would want to get involved in that? If you get injured they won't take care of you. If you get hep b they won't take care of you and will fire you. Ask Daffney, ask Sorensen, ask Nigel... Creatively they have also f***ed a lot of people. The young bucks and Okada for example. Okada was SUPPOSED to get f***ed creatively. New Japan sent him to TNA to learn humility and pay his dues before they made him a star. So you think they sent him to TNA because they thought TNA is terrible.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Dec 3, 2015 1:22:31 GMT -5
No serious indy guy would want to work there. Let's forget about the tna stink, it is a known fact that Dixie Carter is not a good leader and is a worse human being. Who would want to get involved in that? If you get injured they won't take care of you. If you get hep b they won't take care of you and will fire you. Ask Daffney, ask Sorensen, ask Nigel... Creatively they have also f***ed a lot of people. The young bucks and Okada for example. Okada was SUPPOSED to get f***ed creatively. New Japan sent him to TNA to learn humility and pay his dues before they made him a star. You do realize their handling of Okada is what finally killed the NJPW/TNA partnership dead right? You honestly could not be more wrong in this statement.
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Post by Halloween on Dec 3, 2015 1:27:19 GMT -5
Even if the idea was indeed for Okada to be made to look bad why would TNA go along with it? Wouldn't it make sense to try and make SOME money out of every single person on your roster? Why waste valuable TV time on someone to pay their dues?
Okada being f***ed creatively is because of TNA. They have a fantastic track record in ruining talented people.
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Sephiroth
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Post by Sephiroth on Dec 3, 2015 8:35:41 GMT -5
At this stage they may as well just kill off the women's roster altogether. They don't have enough female talent to make a viable roster, and it woukd at least free up some small amount of funds for other purposes. Might as well dump the Tag Belts along with the KO title, and for the exact same reason. The only belts TNA should bother keeping is the World title and the X-Div belt, and the latter is on shaky ground as well. Wouldn't go that far. The X division and tag belts can still be viably used with the roster they've got. But there's really no point in having a women's belt when you only have three or four women on roster to begin with. Look at ROH-they do women's matches now and then, they keep a few women on general roster, but they have never really had a women's division, complete with its own title. Its just not sensible for a promotion of their resources. That said, TNA could try to build a bridge with some of the all-women indy feds out there like Shimmer or Shine to see if they can come to some sort of arrangement. I actually believe TNA did have some sort of deal with Shimmer when the KO division was at its peak, and I even think ROH at one time even allowed Shimmer titles to be defended on their shows.
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Post by celtics543 on Dec 3, 2015 9:04:36 GMT -5
If they stopped running ECW tribute shows and just started an ECW-esque brand for themselves I think they'd make it. No one is beating WWE at what they do, family friendly wrestling entertainment, so don't even try. TNA was at its best when they were an alternative, with the x-division stuff. They need to bring that back. Bring in guys no one has ever heard of, along with one veteran guy that can still go and model it around the original ECW. WWE has the best technical wrestlers in the world for the most part but TNA could throw the violence up a ton, bring blood back, and just do all the crazy stuff that worked for ECW that WWE won't do anymore.
They can also bring back some of what Memphis used to do with the storyline heavy wrestling because that would take the focus away from the fact that most of the guys they can afford can't really work from a technical standpoint. I think the key is to splurge on good commentators though. As we've seen, JR, Gorilla, Ventura, King (in his prime), Gordon Solie, and guys like that could get anyone over. Currently, Cole, JBL, Saxon, King, take guys that are great in the ring and on the mic and actually make them less over than they would be without any commentary at all.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 3, 2015 13:04:37 GMT -5
No serious indy guy would want to work there. Let's forget about the tna stink, it is a known fact that Dixie Carter is not a good leader and is a worse human being. Who would want to get involved in that? If you get injured they won't take care of you. If you get hep b they won't take care of you and will fire you. Ask Daffney, ask Sorensen, ask Nigel... Creatively they have also f***ed a lot of people. The young bucks and Okada for example. Okada was SUPPOSED to get f***ed creatively. New Japan sent him to TNA to learn humility and pay his dues before they made him a star. I don't get it, so it's a good thing to get buried then? Is it worth it for a company to end a relationship with another one so a wrestler pay his dues?
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Reflecto
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Post by Reflecto on Dec 3, 2015 13:14:29 GMT -5
Even if the idea was indeed for Okada to be made to look bad why would TNA go along with it? Wouldn't it make sense to try and make SOME money out of every single person on your roster? Why waste valuable TV time on someone to pay their dues? And the other side of this- so, it makes sense to try and go all out and make a wrestler a mega-star in your company when you know- whether they succeed or fail, they're on an excursion in your company and you will only get them for one year and afterwards they're going to walk away to be a star for this other company instead...and the more you succeed in making them a star, the quicker you lose them (witness ROH getting another 6-8 months out of Takaaki Watanabe before he went back to Japan to become EVIL, in large part due to how little he was used)? They'll be made a star for this other company whether or not you make them huge, and you need to make getting superstars you'll have for the long haul priority one through infinity... but you have to make this person a superstar for you and then happily not just let them walk away, but hand the star over to someone else- just out of the goodness of your heart? If you're a national company, Making mega-stars out of wrestlers on excursion is just a bad business practice unless you are planning to double-cross the puro promotion and signing them full time, and you know you have a good chance of succeeding at getting them full-time.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Dec 3, 2015 17:37:29 GMT -5
Even if the idea was indeed for Okada to be made to look bad why would TNA go along with it? Wouldn't it make sense to try and make SOME money out of every single person on your roster? Why waste valuable TV time on someone to pay their dues? Okada being f***ed creatively is because of TNA. They have a fantastic track record in ruining talented people. They weren't playing into NJPW's plan on purpose, they just misused him exactly how they were expected to. This was also after TNA had done f*** all with Yujiro and Naito the year before, and I imagine that NJ were already planning to cut ties anyway. Also I thought it was Jeff Hardy's awful Dome match and subsequent 2 strikes of drugging up on PPV (noone knows if he was also doped at the Dome show, but considering how much Japan hates drugs anyway...) that really tore the deal
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Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 3, 2015 17:55:09 GMT -5
A couple of things: Okada was sent to the US mainly TNA for learning experience. Humbling was not the goal. Him learning the North American style and getting experience working with different wrestlers was. He rarely got any work in TNA outside of some Xplosion matches. When it can time for him to come back to New Japan, TNA scrambled for something him to do to stay in NJPW's good graces. Their plan was him being Samoa Joe's Kato. Which he did and looked foolish in the process. New Japan was pissed because Okada was going to get a big push upon his return and here you got him kidnapped by knife point by the Pope. They much rather he was not on the show than that.
TNA treated their deal with New Japan terribly. They changed the IWGP tag titles without their consent. Set over a drugged out Jeff Hardy and a super slacking RVD for the Dome show. Had Kevin Nash squash No Limit. Basically treating them like they should be lucky to be in the mere presence of TNA. Which New Japan rightfully killed their deal. TNA later would do the same to Wrestle-1 who saved last year's BFG by paying & hosting the show.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Dec 3, 2015 19:52:16 GMT -5
A couple of things: Okada was sent to the US mainly TNA for learning experience. Humbling was not the goal. Him learning the North American style and getting experience working with different wrestlers was. He rarely got any work in TNA outside of some Xplosion matches. When it can time for him to come back to New Japan, TNA scrambled for something him to do to stay in NJPW's good graces. Their plan was him being Samoa Joe's Kato. Which he did and looked foolish in the process. New Japan was pissed because Okada was going to get a big push upon his return and here you got him kidnapped by knife point by the Pope. They much rather he was not on the show than that. TNA treated their deal with New Japan terribly. They changed the IWGP tag titles without their consent. Set over a drugged out Jeff Hardy and a super slacking RVD for the Dome show. Had Kevin Nash squash No Limit. Basically treating them like they should be lucky to be in the mere presence of TNA. Which New Japan rightfully killed their deal. TNA later would do the same to Wrestle-1 who saved last year's BFG by paying & hosting the show. Pretty much this, New Japan made both The Guns and Team 3D go over at The Tokyo Dome at TNA's behest and for what? To have their talent squashed and treated like a joke, and Hardy to embarass himself in front of over thirty thousand people. Tanahashi himself narrowly avoided becoming this as well if he hadn't been called back. And then New Japan wanted No Limit to go over at a TNA event and they refused, claiming Team 3D feuding with the goddamn Nasty Boys who looked and smelled like they hadn't bathed since the 90s was more important. And then with Wrestle-1, they've ruined Sanada's career as he was lined and slated to become The Ace of the promotion chosen by Mutoh himself. He sent him there and gives them direct orders to treat him with respect and do nothing that will harm him. First chance TNA gets, they make him a knockoff pairing him with Storm and calling him The Great Sanada thus making Mutoh furious and Sanada's career in Japan coming to a dead halt. He's now down in Mexico trying to undo the damages done to him.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 4, 2015 0:34:55 GMT -5
A couple of things: Okada was sent to the US mainly TNA for learning experience. Humbling was not the goal. Him learning the North American style and getting experience working with different wrestlers was. He rarely got any work in TNA outside of some Xplosion matches. When it can time for him to come back to New Japan, TNA scrambled for something him to do to stay in NJPW's good graces. Their plan was him being Samoa Joe's Kato. Which he did and looked foolish in the process. New Japan was pissed because Okada was going to get a big push upon his return and here you got him kidnapped by knife point by the Pope. They much rather he was not on the show than that. TNA treated their deal with New Japan terribly. They changed the IWGP tag titles without their consent. Set over a drugged out Jeff Hardy and a super slacking RVD for the Dome show. Had Kevin Nash squash No Limit. Basically treating them like they should be lucky to be in the mere presence of TNA. Which New Japan rightfully killed their deal. TNA later would do the same to Wrestle-1 who saved last year's BFG by paying & hosting the show. Pretty much this, New Japan made both The Guns and Team 3D go over at The Tokyo Dome at TNA's behest and for what? To have their talent squashed and treated like a joke, and Hardy to embarass himself in front of over thirty thousand people. Tanahashi himself narrowly avoided becoming this as well if he hadn't been called back. And then New Japan wanted No Limit to go over at a TNA event and they refused, claiming Team 3D feuding with the goddamn Nasty Boys who looked and smelled like they hadn't bathed since the 90s was more important. And then with Wrestle-1, they've ruined Sanada's career as he was lined and slated to become The Ace of the promotion chosen by Mutoh himself. He sent him there and gives them direct orders to treat him with respect and do nothing that will harm him. First chance TNA gets, they make him a knockoff pairing him with Storm and calling him The Great Sanada thus making Mutoh furious and Sanada's career in Japan coming to a dead halt. He's now down in Mexico trying to undo the damages done to him. Exactly, who's gonna want to be treated poorly and embarrased by tna? This is the same company that wanted James f***ing Storm to job to Mahabali Shera... I don't know how people steal defend tna, it's not worth to work there, the company has bring that stigma on its own. It's not a good place to work for. Everybody that has ever work there has buried the company on their way out.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 4, 2015 1:12:29 GMT -5
Pretty much this, New Japan made both The Guns and Team 3D go over at The Tokyo Dome at TNA's behest and for what? To have their talent squashed and treated like a joke, and Hardy to embarass himself in front of over thirty thousand people. Tanahashi himself narrowly avoided becoming this as well if he hadn't been called back. And then New Japan wanted No Limit to go over at a TNA event and they refused, claiming Team 3D feuding with the goddamn Nasty Boys who looked and smelled like they hadn't bathed since the 90s was more important. And then with Wrestle-1, they've ruined Sanada's career as he was lined and slated to become The Ace of the promotion chosen by Mutoh himself. He sent him there and gives them direct orders to treat him with respect and do nothing that will harm him. First chance TNA gets, they make him a knockoff pairing him with Storm and calling him The Great Sanada thus making Mutoh furious and Sanada's career in Japan coming to a dead halt. He's now down in Mexico trying to undo the damages done to him. Exactly, who's gonna want to be treated poorly and embarrased by tna? This is the same company that wanted James f***ing Storm to job to Mahabali Shera... I don't know how people steal defend tna, it's not worth to work there, the company has bring that stigma on its own. It's not a good place to work for. Everybody that has ever work there has buried the company on their way out. See, I agree with you on Shera. I don't care for TNA's business practices, and I don't like that talents are not being paid on time. I just don't think the wrestling business will improve with their closure. None of the bigger indies are going to get bigger than they are. And I feel there needs to be a non-WWE "sports entertainment"-styled promotion out there because not everyone is cut out for WWE, and not everyone is cut out for the more heavily workrate oriented major indies. And while I want the talented wrestlers to work, I really, REALLY don't like the idea of a mass exodus of TNA refugees creating/exacerbating an already difficult to break glass ceiling in WWE or any other promotion. I don't want to see WWE bringing TNA alumni into NXT and trying and failing to put even the most mediocre to shit TNA talents on that same pedestal as their big name Indy alumni and see deserving WWE homegrown talents losing spots to talentless hacks like the aforementioned Shera.
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Reflecto
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Post by Reflecto on Dec 4, 2015 1:57:59 GMT -5
Exactly, who's gonna want to be treated poorly and embarrased by tna? This is the same company that wanted James f***ing Storm to job to Mahabali Shera... I don't know how people steal defend tna, it's not worth to work there, the company has bring that stigma on its own. It's not a good place to work for. Everybody that has ever work there has buried the company on their way out. See, I agree with you on Shera. I don't care for TNA's business practices, and I don't like that talents are not being paid on time. I just don't think the wrestling business will improve with their closure. None of the bigger indies are going to get bigger than they are. And I feel there needs to be a non-WWE "sports entertainment"-styled promotion out there because not everyone is cut out for WWE, and not everyone is cut out for the more heavily workrate oriented major indies. And while I want the talented wrestlers to work, I really, REALLY don't like the idea of a mass exodus of TNA refugees creating/exacerbating an already difficult to break glass ceiling in WWE or any other promotion. I don't want to see WWE bringing TNA alumni into NXT and trying and failing to put even the most mediocre to shit TNA talents on that same pedestal as their big name Indy alumni and see deserving WWE homegrown talents losing spots to talentless hacks like the aforementioned Shera. On the other side of that, though- TNA closing won't make some bigger indy the number two...but that's the point. The fact of the matter is that nature abhors a vacuum. ROH, Lucha Underground, EVOLVE, Beyond, SHIMMER- they don't HAVE to get bigger than they are to take the number two promotion. That won't happen. What WILL happen if TNA closes down though is the same thing to form TNA: Some other company, which will almost definitely treat the employees better than TNA did, will see that there's a vacuum for a number two promotion and form a whole new company to take TNA's place as number two- much like TNA took WCW's place as number two. Maybe it'll be Global Force, maybe it'll be a company similar to that that does it- but when TNA goes, a newer, almost certainly better company will replace TNA as the "WCW" of the wrestling industry- and when that happens, there will be a better endgame. The TNA refugees will have a place to go to be stars, indy talent will have a place to go that doesn't seem like giving up hope of being a top star, and more importantly, a new promotion with a fresh start will mean WWE has to run scared to keep their own talent, thus leading to them either having to give them a better chance or risk that new company signing them away.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Dec 4, 2015 2:04:11 GMT -5
I'd call up Jeff Jarrett, tell him the arena is waiting for him and his guys. He's responsible for paying the workers, but gets merch sales and 50% of the live gate, I get everything else. He can promote Global all he wants on it, but it's understood it's being hosted by TNA. When that agreement starts to run dry, call up Dragonsgate (or Chikara or whichever other big indie without national TV is out there), make them the same deal.
That system kept Houston and St. Louis going for years.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 4, 2015 14:36:25 GMT -5
I'd call up Jeff Jarrett, tell him the arena is waiting for him and his guys. He's responsible for paying the workers, but gets merch sales and 50% of the live gate, I get everything else. He can promote Global all he wants on it, but it's understood it's being hosted by TNA. When that agreement starts to run dry, call up Dragonsgate (or Chikara or whichever other big indie without national TV is out there), make them the same deal. That system kept Houston and St. Louis going for years. Yeah but that model applied to succesful companies, GFW couldn't possibly make that much money, Chikara also couldn't. The other difference is that Paul Boetsch and Sam Muchnick were succesful promoters, Dixie is a moron.
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Reflecto
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Post by Reflecto on Dec 4, 2015 15:31:48 GMT -5
I'd call up Jeff Jarrett, tell him the arena is waiting for him and his guys. He's responsible for paying the workers, but gets merch sales and 50% of the live gate, I get everything else. He can promote Global all he wants on it, but it's understood it's being hosted by TNA. When that agreement starts to run dry, call up Dragonsgate (or Chikara or whichever other big indie without national TV is out there), make them the same deal. That system kept Houston and St. Louis going for years. Yeah but that model applied to succesful companies, GFW couldn't possibly make that much money, Chikara also couldn't. The other difference is that Paul Boetsch and Sam Muchnick were succesful promoters, Dixie is a moron. Just "renting out the arena" is not necessarily an issue that goes to "LOLTNA". The bigger problem with Joe Neglia's issue is- The Impact Zone is free admission anyway, so there's no live gate to speak of. The only way it's a good move on TNA's side is to get top-tier indy promotions on national TV in the Impact time slot (and in turn, presumably get fans to trust and watch again since it's not the stench of TNA)- but for a promotion outside of the mix, it doesn't help (50% of zero is zero.)
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