Lt. Palumbo
Hank Scorpio
On again off again watcher of a wrestling TV show
Posts: 6,067
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Post by Lt. Palumbo on Dec 15, 2015 7:22:48 GMT -5
Revenge because New Day won after Xavier, who wasn't in The match, threw a trombone at the guy who was going to win the match. Just because New Day is more entertaining than the other two teams doesn't automatically make them right. In a no-DQ match and it's not like Woods is some guy that has never associated with the New Day. If you're facing a trio then you shouldn't just assume that the person that isn't in the match isn't going to be involved in the match. Woods also apologized for that, saying he was swept up in the moment. Again this came across very sincerely as the rest of the segment did. There was definitely something missing here. Like maybe New Day needed to be much bigger dicks once they started celebrating, really rubbing it in and whatnot. As it stands, yup Xavier got involved but so what it's a ladder match, these things happen and have almost always happened. I'm not even really a "the faces are all heels" guy, but this was missing either just cause or explanation. Even if your argument is that New Day deserved it for months of being assholes, now was the worst time to do it, they were being really respectful. It's like calling someone out for being a life-long asshole at their own wedding, you might be right but the timing makes you look like the jerk.
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Post by Session Moth is over on Dec 15, 2015 11:59:17 GMT -5
Usos had many times where they had reason to attack New Day. When do they choose? After New Tag apologise and shake hands and wait until they had left the ring to celebrate.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 15, 2015 12:37:32 GMT -5
In a no-DQ match and it's not like Woods is some guy that has never associated with the New Day. If you're facing a trio then you shouldn't just assume that the person that isn't in the match isn't going to be involved in the match. Woods also apologized for that, saying he was swept up in the moment. Again this came across very sincerely as the rest of the segment did. Xavier wasn't swept up in the emotion. You heard him talking on commentary the entire thing... it was fully planned and has been their MO since they turned heel.
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Post by "Mr Wonderdick" Dick Dastardly on Dec 15, 2015 12:48:31 GMT -5
In a no-DQ match and it's not like Woods is some guy that has never associated with the New Day. If you're facing a trio then you shouldn't just assume that the person that isn't in the match isn't going to be involved in the match. Woods also apologized for that, saying he was swept up in the moment. Again this came across very sincerely as the rest of the segment did. There was definitely something missing here. Like maybe New Day needed to be much bigger dicks once they started celebrating, really rubbing it in and whatnot. As it stands, yup Xavier got involved but so what it's a ladder match, these things happen and have almost always happened. I'm not even really a "the faces are all heels" guy, but this was missing either just cause or explanation. Even if your argument is that New Day deserved it for months of being assholes, now was the worst time to do it, they were being really respectful. It's like calling someone out for being a life-long asshole at their own wedding, you might be right but the timing makes you look like the jerk. Just replace Punk with New Day.
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Dec 15, 2015 12:53:34 GMT -5
Woods also apologized for that, saying he was swept up in the moment. Again this came across very sincerely as the rest of the segment did. Xavier wasn't swept up in the emotion. You heard him talking on commentary the entire thing... it was fully planned and has been their MO since they turned heel. I love when people here see some heel get beat up or a taste of their own medicine and some decry the face for doing it or act like the heel is the babyface. Rewatching the part where the New Day celebrates yeah they needed to say something more insulting then "We are sincere but today is about the NEW DAY" and then acting like jackasses if you are going to shake their hand. Just a little bit more to make it look like they were either obviously not sincere or rubbing it in more.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 15, 2015 12:57:05 GMT -5
I got the idea but it was pretty poorly done.
New Day shook their hands, waited until they left, and then started flexing for the gram. They didn't even run down the other teams and say they were booty or whatever. They were just celebrating their own LEGAL (and yes, it was 110% legal because it was a No DQ match) victory. The faces looked like dillholes running down because they were sore losers.
If the payoff was gonna be the faces, who have a 4-on-3 advantage, running down to beat up New Day, they should have started actually mocking the other teams. Get some actual heat. f*** it, make fun of the three teams from the original TLC matches too. The way this angle was set up turned it into a hot mess, made even worse by the Philly crowd cheering the heels and booing the hell out of the faces, which anybody with two brain cells to rub together could have figured out was gonna happen when looking at this segment on paper.
It really does tie back to what I think is the main issue with Raw. Nobody thinks. I mean, really THINK about the small details. They just do angles because that's what supposed to happen on a wrestling show. No care or effort put into what actually creates villains or heroes other than us being told who's supposed to be who.
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Post by warriorthug4edge on Dec 15, 2015 13:06:20 GMT -5
Woods also apologized for that, saying he was swept up in the moment. Again this came across very sincerely as the rest of the segment did. Xavier wasn't swept up in the emotion. You heard him talking on commentary the entire thing... it was fully planned and has been their MO since they turned heel. I don't know...from what I remember, Woods was just talking (and calling out the commentators for confusing Kalisto and Sin Cara, which was hilarious), then as it looked like the Lucha Dragons had it, he yelled, "WAIT, THIS IS NO DQ!" and then threw the trombone. I can buy that being "caught up in the moment" and realizing the titles were dead unless he did something. The whole thing came off poorly...the New Day clearly were being nice and while the dancing WAS obnoxious, they had let them leave the ring. I could see it if they had started the celebration with them right there, but they tried to wait and let them have their moment before going on with the celebration.
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Post by sunnytaker on Dec 15, 2015 13:11:11 GMT -5
I kept waiting for new day to do something dastardly or act too fake in their congratulations or something to cue the face beatdown while they were all in the ring. maybe try to drive a wedge between the usos and dragons but they don't fall for it and join up to beat up new day or something. but instead we got polite heels extending the hand of respect to their opponents after a great match. waiting until they left and had the ring to themselves before celebrating their win. somehow this was the final straw after all that foul niceness/respect new day was showing to them in the ring seconds earlier so they had to charge the ring to beat them up. while new day weren't looking at them. because uso dragons are the good guys...
if the idea was that new day was mocking them somehow in all this and deserved the beatdown at that particular moment, the execution failed most miserably.
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Lt. Palumbo
Hank Scorpio
On again off again watcher of a wrestling TV show
Posts: 6,067
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Post by Lt. Palumbo on Dec 15, 2015 13:37:49 GMT -5
I love when people here see some heel get beat up or a taste of their own medicine and some decry the face for doing it or act like the heel is the babyface. Rewatching the part where the New Day celebrates yeah they needed to say something more insulting then "We are sincere but today is about the NEW DAY" and then acting like jackasses if you are going to shake their hand. Just a little bit more to make it look like they were either obviously not sincere or rubbing it in more. I'm not even decrying it, just saying the timing was terrible, considering they weren't at all being asses at the time. I'd go back to the analogy of some guy in your circle of friends who you totally hate and rightly so because he's an asshole and everyone knows it. but if the moment you choose to call him out on it is when he's actually pointing out how good other people are and generally acting like a very decent person at that moment, you look like an asshole regardless of whether it's a taste of his own medicine or not. Which brings us back to the part we agree on, if they wanted Usos/Dragons to attack here, they needed New Day to be much bigger asses about it or the moment seems off.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Dec 15, 2015 14:05:11 GMT -5
It was a bad segment. Poorly written. Not the performers fault. Creative is the worst it's been since 1995. Vince needs to be gone, Michael Hayes needs to be gone, Road Dogg is new to creative, but he's proven to be trash at this as well. Kevin Dunn has always been garbage. Every single one of them are failing on the creative standpoint and should be embarrassed by their ineptitude.
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Post by SCCB Was Told To Do Steroids on Dec 15, 2015 14:21:02 GMT -5
I was totally expecting:
"BUUUUUUUUUUTTTTT!!!! HAHA, WE'RE NOT GIVING YOU ANY RETURN CLAUSES!!!! HAHA!!!!"
Then again, they'd have to elevate a team, or go with The Ascension, or let the Dudleyz claim their destiny...
..or worse, give Los Matadores a shot...
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 15, 2015 14:27:18 GMT -5
It's legal, but that doesn't mean it's right. No-DQ doesn't mean that interference is fair. It just means that they won't be penalized or disciplined for it by the refs or the people in charge. Doesn't mean they won't catch any shit from the people they screwed over.
And in kayfabe, there is no real reason for New Day to even BE at RAW since they didn't have a match, so they clearly came out just to gloat. There's no reason for the Lucha Dragons or Usos to be there either, but they were there because they knew that New Day were going to gloat.
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ronin705
Dennis Stamp
All Might
Posts: 4,277
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Post by ronin705 on Dec 15, 2015 14:30:30 GMT -5
I think Enzo and Cass are gonna be the ones to take the strap off them. But as for the segment, terrible terrible terrible
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 15, 2015 14:31:21 GMT -5
New Day are goofy enough to be able to overlook the logical problems with the segment.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,165
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 15, 2015 14:38:48 GMT -5
It's legal, but that doesn't mean it's right. No-DQ doesn't mean that interference is fair. It just means that they won't be penalized or disciplined for it by the refs or the people in charge. Doesn't mean they won't catch any shit from the people they screwed over. And in kayfabe, there is no real reason for New Day to even BE at RAW since they didn't have a match, so they clearly came out just to gloat. There's no reason for the Lucha Dragons or Usos to be there either, but they were there because they knew that New Day were going to gloat. There's also that they claimed they were too sore to dance, and then they danced anyway. But I'm not ("SILENCE!") allowed to talk ("SILENCE!") about things anymore ("SILENCE!") because I'm obviously ("SILENCE!") too ("SILENCE!") stupid ("SILENCE!) to be allowed ("SILENCE!") to live.
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Dec 15, 2015 14:44:05 GMT -5
I love when people here see some heel get beat up or a taste of their own medicine and some decry the face for doing it or act like the heel is the babyface. Rewatching the part where the New Day celebrates yeah they needed to say something more insulting then "We are sincere but today is about the NEW DAY" and then acting like jackasses if you are going to shake their hand. Just a little bit more to make it look like they were either obviously not sincere or rubbing it in more. I'm not even decrying it, just saying the timing was terrible, considering they weren't at all being asses at the time. I'd go back to the analogy of some guy in your circle of friends who you totally hate and rightly so because he's an asshole and everyone knows it. but if the moment you choose to call him out on it is when he's actually pointing out how good other people are and generally acting like a very decent person at that moment, you look like an asshole regardless of whether it's a taste of his own medicine or not. Which brings us back to the part we agree on, if they wanted Usos/Dragons to attack here, they needed New Day to be much bigger asses about it or the moment seems off. Oh I agree. Especially if they shake their hands in the first place the trigger needs to be more dickish then what they did. Even as a double turn it doesn't do its job and just confuses the issue. Still too many people take the heel getting a taste of his/her medicine out of context. Its one of the reason the WWE can't do any subtlety. (see Bossman raising the briefcase as another example yet people say its a mystery)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2015 15:10:33 GMT -5
Usos had many times where they had reason to attack New Day. When do they choose? After New Tag apologise and shake hands and wait until they had left the ring to celebrate. Yes. Timing is big. Not from the Usos' motivation standpoint, but from a presentation standpoint. If New Day were out there talking shit to Lilian or something and the Usos and Dragons ran in, makes them look like good guys. The way it was done seemed to intentionally make New Day look like they were wronged.
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Perfect Timing
Dennis Stamp
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Posts: 4,869
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Post by Perfect Timing on Dec 15, 2015 22:20:01 GMT -5
Awful because it reminded me of goody two shoes Kofi Kingston.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 15, 2015 22:22:25 GMT -5
What's telling for me is that there's still no WWE.com report of this angle happening, even a day after the fact. It's like they couldn't find a way to spin this one so they've probably just decided "Ah screw it" and we'll never hear of it again.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Dec 15, 2015 22:33:41 GMT -5
Let's just pretend Big E sent all of their wives texts filled with gifs of his most provocative dance moves and that's what caused the beatdown.
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