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Post by StormanReigns on Jan 4, 2016 23:28:41 GMT -5
-Vince McMahon in 1999
Today's show centered around:
- A 70 year Senior Citizen (Vince McMahon) - The Dudley Boys (both in their 40's) - 45 year old Chris Jericho - A 66 Year old Ric Flair - A 43 year Old Big Show - A 38 year old Alberto Del Rio - A 37 year old Sheamus
Don't get me wrong some of those guys are over enough to be on the show. I looked up a few random shows from the attitude era, a few cards had no one older than 35.
When did he just lose his own philosophy?
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jan 4, 2016 23:29:46 GMT -5
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Post by darkjourney on Jan 4, 2016 23:31:50 GMT -5
... At least alot of the older guys in WCW were still over even if they were past their prime. Pretty much none of the older guard are even over anymore in WWE. Hell, most of the younger guys aren't either though.
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Jan 4, 2016 23:33:34 GMT -5
... At least alot of the older guys in WCW were still over even if they were past their prime. Pretty much none of the older guard are even over anymore in WWE. Hell, most of the younger guys aren't either though. They younger guys have been given less than a crumb's worth of a chance. And then any time they start getting over, WWE tries to kill it to prove that their chant is the only thing that's over or whatever excuse they want to make.
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Post by Ruthless Pessimism on Jan 4, 2016 23:57:15 GMT -5
Aw man, TNA is going to torch them over this!
...wait a minute...
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Lupin the Third
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Post by Lupin the Third on Jan 5, 2016 0:39:42 GMT -5
... At least alot of the older guys in WCW were still over even if they were past their prime. Pretty much none of the older guard are even over anymore in WWE. Hell, most of the younger guys aren't either though. They younger guys have been given less than a crumb's worth of a chance. And then any time they start getting over, WWE tries to kill it to prove that their chant is the only thing that's over or whatever excuse they want to make. THEY'RE JUST A BUNCH OF VANILLA MIDGETS!!!! And Cesaro.
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm on Jan 5, 2016 0:42:50 GMT -5
I'm actually really starting to get sick of seeing this video... Edit: It was one of those things that was funny the first time, but then got beaten into the ground to the point I just roll my eyes. They younger guys have been given less than a crumb's worth of a chance. And then any time they start getting over, WWE tries to kill it to prove that their chant is the only thing that's over or whatever excuse they want to make. That's ridiculous. WWE will definitely push somebody who got over without their help. Case in point: This, on the other hand, will never not be funny.
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stealthamo
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Post by stealthamo on Jan 5, 2016 0:45:47 GMT -5
... At least alot of the older guys in WCW were still over even if they were past their prime. Pretty much none of the older guard are even over anymore in WWE. Hell, most of the younger guys aren't either though. They younger guys have been given less than a crumb's worth of a chance. And then any time they start getting over, WWE tries to kill it to prove that their chant is the only thing that's over or whatever excuse they want to make. That's ridiculous. WWE will definitely push somebody who got over without their help. Case in point:
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Doctor Of Style
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Post by Doctor Of Style on Jan 5, 2016 0:52:09 GMT -5
They younger guys have been given less than a crumb's worth of a chance. And then any time they start getting over, WWE tries to kill it to prove that their chant is the only thing that's over or whatever excuse they want to make. That's ridiculous. WWE will definitely push somebody who got over without their help. Case in point: Never gets old.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jan 5, 2016 0:53:18 GMT -5
Your champion in 1999 right now was Hollywood Hulk Hogan who won the title by poking a guy in the chest.
In fact, all of your current champions are fairly young.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jan 5, 2016 0:54:40 GMT -5
How did the show center around Jericho and Flair? If that is the case throw in JBL and Lillian Garcia too. Del Rio has about 4 years on the WWE main roster. Using age in an argument like this just undermines good points.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 5, 2016 0:58:40 GMT -5
How did the show center around Jericho and Flair? If that is the case throw in JBL and Lillian Garcia too. Del Rio has about 4 years on the WWE main roster. Using age in an argument like this just undermines good points. Don't let facts get in the way of a good story.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 5, 2016 1:00:10 GMT -5
Which one of you is secretly Russo and/or Disco Inferno?
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jan 5, 2016 1:59:42 GMT -5
I keep saying it... The whole Logan's Run thing is going to be started by a bunch of angry wrestling fans.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Jan 5, 2016 2:47:04 GMT -5
Aw man, TNA is going to torch them over this!
...wait a minute... this is the only reason they're getting away with this bullshit.
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Post by Hobby Drifter on Jan 5, 2016 6:14:06 GMT -5
This will never not be infuriating. What happened to Zack Ryder was an absolute travesty. Here was a dude who, while not the best wrestler in the world, did exactly what Vince, HHH, and all the other "old guard" guys have been saying for years. "Don't wait for an opportunity to be handed to you; MAKE your opportunity." He built up his own fanbase through unconventional means. He got himself over with the live crowds (read: paying customers) and pimped his own merchandise through his pioneering use of social media. And it WORKED. The crowds were hot as hell for him. They chanted "WE WANT RYDER" at THE ROCK. His run at (not with, sadly) the US Title made that belt more relevant than anything John Cena has done with it. And what did WWE do to reward all of the hard work he put in to getting himself over (and making THEM a hell of a lot of money)? They did WORSE than firing him. At least if they'd fired him, he could have done his thing in Ring of Honor (or even TNA). His "self-made" bit would have gone over SUPER well in smaller promotions. But instead, they tried (and failed) to use his heat to get over the John Cena/Kane feud. And, in the process, utterly destroyed one of their own Divas along with starting John Cena down the "unlikable prick" road. They humiliated the guy over and over again and ultimately just dropped him from the shows. First mid-carder that the company could have legitimately done something exciting with IN the mid-card and they threw him under a bus. Paul Heyman built a wrestling promotion around "hiding the flaws and spotlighting the positives". WWE did the exact opposite and they did it seemingly out of nothing more than spite, because he got over (in such a way that the fans demanded to see him) at a time they wanted to push others instead. Rather than altering their plans, they didn't just bury Ryder, they ground him into the dirt with their heels and then salted the earth so that nothing could ever grow again. Having learned NOTHING from that, they tried to do the same damn thing to Daniel Bryan, a guy who singlehandedly went on to make Wrestlemania 30 go from "meh" to "can't miss". WWE has produced so many Attitude Era and Monday Night War programs, so it's amazing to me that they can so utterly miss not only what WCW did wrong, but what WWE did RIGHT. Attitude Era WWE listened to the fans. "Hey, the crowd is booing the hell out of our blue-chippin' babyface...maybe turn him heel?" "This Stone Cold guy is really building steam, let's see where this goes." "That one-eared weirdo has some interesting ideas, maybe give him a platform to try 'em out?" "Our audience has grown tired of the superhero good-guy. How about an anti-hero or two?" But even that's just lip service. All of that only happened because Vince didn't have any other choice. Hogan left. Macho left. Bret left. Everybody Vince wanted to be "the Babe Ruth of Wrestling" left. HBK got injured. Razor and Diesel left. HHH made the cardinal sin of saying goodbye to his friends, and thus had to get squashed BY WARRIOR instead of getting a push. If that hadn't happened, Rocky Maivia and The Ringmaster wouldn't have made it out of the midcard. Issac Yankem would be something that students kid Mr. Jacobs about in Kentucky.
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Post by celtics543 on Jan 5, 2016 6:47:15 GMT -5
This will never not be infuriating. What happened to Zack Ryder was an absolute travesty. Here was a dude who, while not the best wrestler in the world, did exactly what Vince, HHH, and all the other "old guard" guys have been saying for years. "Don't wait for an opportunity to be handed to you; MAKE your opportunity." He built up his own fanbase through unconventional means. He got himself over with the live crowds (read: paying customers) and pimped his own merchandise through his pioneering use of social media. And it WORKED. The crowds were hot as hell for him. They chanted "WE WANT RYDER" at THE ROCK. His run at (not with, sadly) the US Title made that belt more relevant than anything John Cena has done with it. And what did WWE do to reward all of the hard work he put in to getting himself over (and making THEM a hell of a lot of money)? They did WORSE than firing him. At least if they'd fired him, he could have done his thing in Ring of Honor (or even TNA). His "self-made" bit would have gone over SUPER well in smaller promotions. But instead, they tried (and failed) to use his heat to get over the John Cena/Kane feud. And, in the process, utterly destroyed one of their own Divas along with starting John Cena down the "unlikable prick" road. They humiliated the guy over and over again and ultimately just dropped him from the shows. First mid-carder that the company could have legitimately done something exciting with IN the mid-card and they threw him under a bus. Paul Heyman built a wrestling promotion around "hiding the flaws and spotlighting the positives". WWE did the exact opposite and they did it seemingly out of nothing more than spite, because he got over (in such a way that the fans demanded to see him) at a time they wanted to push others instead. Rather than altering their plans, they didn't just bury Ryder, they ground him into the dirt with their heels and then salted the earth so that nothing could ever grow again. Having learned NOTHING from that, they tried to do the same damn thing to Daniel Bryan, a guy who singlehandedly went on to make Wrestlemania 30 go from "meh" to "can't miss". WWE has produced so many Attitude Era and Monday Night War programs, so it's amazing to me that they can so utterly miss not only what WCW did wrong, but what WWE did RIGHT. Attitude Era WWE listened to the fans. "Hey, the crowd is booing the hell out of our blue-chippin' babyface...maybe turn him heel?" "This Stone Cold guy is really building steam, let's see where this goes." "That one-eared weirdo has some interesting ideas, maybe give him a platform to try 'em out?" "Our audience has grown tired of the superhero good-guy. How about an anti-hero or two?" But even that's just lip service. All of that only happened because Vince didn't have any other choice. Hogan left. Macho left. Bret left. Everybody Vince wanted to be "the Babe Ruth of Wrestling" left. HBK got injured. Razor and Diesel left. HHH made the cardinal sin of saying goodbye to his friends, and thus had to get squashed BY WARRIOR instead of getting a push. If that hadn't happened, Rocky Maivia and The Ringmaster wouldn't have made it out of the midcard. Issac Yankem would be something that students kid Mr. Jacobs about in Kentucky. Could not agree more with this. Perfectly said and absolutely correct. Vince is a good business man in the sense that he knows how to make money from tv networks and he knows how to promote his product expertly. He is not the creative genius that he's credited with being and he really lucked into most of the things that got over huge in wrestling. Hogan was a huge star in Minnesota before Vince pushed him to the moon, and at the time was lucky that house shows drove the business because if Hogan had been on tv for as long as Cena has been then no one would want to see him anymore either. Vince hates to change, once he finds a guy he wants that to be the guy until the guy literally can't move anymore. If HBK wasn't hurt he would've never put Austin over, Rock wouldn't have gotten a push, and the attitude era would've been all about DX. I love Shawn Michaels as a performer but if he doesn't get hurt and leave the business for four years then the WWF goes out of business. Business wasn't picking up with him, the fans wanted Austin and I truly believe that 1998 Shawn Michaels would never have put Austin over unless he knew he was leaving for a while, and even then it apparently took the Undertaker threatening him to get it done. Much like Drew Bledsoe was a good qb for the Patriots but him getting hurt and opening the door for Tom Brady is one of the greatest things that's ever happened to the Pats, HBK getting hurt and opening the door for Steve Austin likely saved the WWF/E. Doesn't mean I wasn't a fan of both Bledsoe and HBK, just the facts about the situation. What we've gotten to now is Cena is the workhorse and top guy but every other top guy in history found somewhere else to go or got hurt eventually and had to leave, neither has happened to Cena yet. There isn't a WCW to throw a ton of money at him and bring him over like they could with Hogan, Nash, Hart, Savage, etc. That leads to everything getting stale.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jan 5, 2016 11:44:06 GMT -5
I'm actually really starting to get sick of seeing this video... Edit: It was one of those things that was funny the first time, but then got beaten into the ground to the point I just roll my eyes. That's ridiculous. WWE will definitely push somebody who got over without their help. Case in point: This, on the other hand, will never not be funny. If WWE ever taught me something,is that if people liked it once ,i should just keep doing it over and over! And if they don't like it,do it anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 11:48:19 GMT -5
I don't think you and I have the same definition of the word "centered" with most of those. It's like saying Game of Thrones is "centered" around Hodor, because he happens to appear from time to time.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 5, 2016 11:51:15 GMT -5
I don't think you and I have the same definition of the word "centered" with most of those. It's like saying Game of Thrones is "centered" around Hodor, because he happens to appear from time to time. Yeah, Flair is basically a cameo at this point as most of the focus is on his daughter (insert Ric Flair's daughter is a wrestler joke here)
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