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Post by abjordans on Jan 7, 2016 18:44:05 GMT -5
Let's not gorget, peeps, the point of this is to not get hurt. I have never seen as many injuries hit a roster, I have been watching for 25 years. That indy, balls to the wall, style has finally infiltrated WWE fully. The problem is, WWE guys work 4 or 5 nights a week. No human body can do that every night. Guys go balls to the wall at house shows. This injury problem is no longer cpincidence. I am, honestly, not enjoying things as much because of how hurt guys are getting. Not just because top guys are missing, thus lowering my enjoyment, but it is not the same if guys are REALLY getting hurt. Like I said, that is the whole point.
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Post by PsychoGoatee on Jan 7, 2016 18:53:22 GMT -5
They could lighten up the schedule, and it sounds like a lot of this is from going heavy with the bodybuilding and not having adequate recovery time.
I agree we don't need particularly risky spots, but these shoulder injuries and stuff like Rollins knee injury generally aren't the result of some move that's more physical than normal or anything.
More recovery time after the gym, more recovery time in general, more time off is the answer I think. I don't think they need an off-season, just schedule it so everybody alternates a bit more, especially on house shows.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 18:57:06 GMT -5
Can they ever get back to the days where guys get a pop for a headlock takedown and a headscissor reversal, or reversing an abdominal stretch? In recent memory, I can only remember that happening at MITB 2011. Fans were cheering Punk and Cena for basic chain wrestling reversals, it was beautiful. And it was because there was so much investment from the crowd in the performers. WWE HAS to figure out how to cultivate that investment again. They've chased chants and merch sales for so long, that stuff is all very surface level.
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魔界5号
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Post by 魔界5号 on Jan 7, 2016 19:00:20 GMT -5
It's the schedule. Wrestlers in New Japan take way harder shots and bumps and you rarely see injuries there because they work maybe two shows a week. Main roster WWE Superstars are on the road for like 300 days a year and it takes it toll eventually.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 19:00:52 GMT -5
No, I'm sure WWE wrestlers using every single supplement that doesn't trigger a wellness violation, while working out, and traveling, and taking the same bumps over and over on the same parts of their body while wrestling the same guy 20 times on the house show circuit before they change feuds will be fine.
Oh hey throw some flips in too on non televised shows cuz why not. That can't hurt doing it a few times a week. Jump in the air and maybe land about 3 meters on your feet outside the ring, it'll be super cool. Let's do it repeatedly.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 19:04:57 GMT -5
It's the schedule. Wrestlers in New Japan take way harder shots and bumps and you rarely see injuries there because they work maybe two shows a week. Main roster WWE Superstars are on the road for like 300 days a year and it takes it toll eventually. The schedule has always been this way though. Guys used to work around the schedule by doing less in the ring, and they could do that because their heat wasn't dependent on how many crazy moves or bumps they could do. I'm not blaming the wrestlers, they're doing what they've got to do. It's the nature of the product that makes it so they have to kill themselves to get half the reaction guys in the 80s and 90s did. Even during the mid 90s, when the product was supposedly so terrible, fans popped for EVERYTHING. |
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Post by PsychoGoatee on Jan 7, 2016 19:10:39 GMT -5
It's the schedule. Wrestlers in New Japan take way harder shots and bumps and you rarely see injuries there because they work maybe two shows a week. Main roster WWE Superstars are on the road for like 300 days a year and it takes it toll eventually. The schedule has always been this way though. Guys used to work around the schedule by doing less in the ring, and they could do that because their heat wasn't dependent on how many crazy moves or bumps they could do. I'm not blaming the wrestlers, they're doing what they've got to do. It's the nature of the product that makes it so they have to kill themselves to get half the reaction guys in the 80s and 90s did. Even during the mid 90s, when the product was supposedly so terrible, fans popped for EVERYTHING. Sure going back to a style from decades ago may be safer, but it may not be what crowds want today. Suggesting a lighter schedule seems like a more doable suggestion in my opinion. And the topic of the crowd being invested and popping for everything, that's sort of another thing entirely. But going back to more headlocks (it sure feels like we still have plenty of rest-hold time today to me) probably won't be the thing to get the crowd invested, for me anyway. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 19:16:17 GMT -5
The schedule has always been this way though. Guys used to work around the schedule by doing less in the ring, and they could do that because their heat wasn't dependent on how many crazy moves or bumps they could do. I'm not blaming the wrestlers, they're doing what they've got to do. It's the nature of the product that makes it so they have to kill themselves to get half the reaction guys in the 80s and 90s did. Even during the mid 90s, when the product was supposedly so terrible, fans popped for EVERYTHING. Sure going back to a style from decades ago may be safer, but it may not be what crowds want today. Suggesting a lighter schedule seems like a more doable suggestion in my opinion. And the topic of the crowd being invested and popping for everything, that's sort of another thing entirely. But going back to more headlocks (it sure feels like we still have plenty of rest-hold time today to me) probably won't be the thing to get the crowd invested, for me anyway. Well, it's got to be one or the other. Can't go balls out 4-5 nights a week. I just don't see the schedule every really changing, the wrestling style changing seems more likely and doable. It's also possible to wrestle a match with some pace to it without as much impact, see the likes of Owen Hart and Sean Waltman. There's a happy medium to find, but the main thing is that WWE has to start presenting people better. Also, if they want to keep the house show schedule, they need to cut back the TV, because the massive amount of TV is the reason the wrestlers are so overexposed and have to keep trying to top themselves/each other to keep people caring. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 19:19:34 GMT -5
No, I'm sure WWE wrestlers using every single supplement that doesn't trigger a wellness violation, while working out, and traveling, and taking the same bumps over and over on the same parts of their body while wrestling the same guy 20 times on the house show circuit before they change feuds will be fine. Oh hey throw some flips in too on non televised shows cuz why not. That can't hurt doing it a few times a week. Jump in the air and maybe land about 3 meters on your feet outside the ring, it'll be super cool. Let's do it repeatedly. And while we're at it, let's have a guy we're grooming to be a big piece in the future do a flying double stomp from the top rope as a finish, while people online talk about how lame it is. Kevin Sullivan was over jumping 10 inches in the air and stomping some jobber, but he was short and fat and should've been buried for it on air by the chuckleheads in the booth. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 19:22:01 GMT -5
I was listening to the Punk/AoW interview again recently and realized how prophetic his words were in regards to how most low-level, nagging injuries are treated.
WWE has no concept of letting someone actually heal up and would rather have them work kinda injured than give them the time off to heal properly. Then their low-level injury is exacerbated to the point it becomes something that takes a guy off the road for what should be a year, but WWE wants them back sooner, they get re-injured and the cycle of injuries continues.
Especially today with the roster being packed to the gills with talent, there is zero reason for a guy to work injured at all. Add in the fact that WWE isn't even really try to build up any stars not named Roman Reigns right now and it seems even more negligent to ask a guy to work injured when they can pretty much put anyone in their place with WWE's writing style.
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Post by thecrusherwi on Jan 7, 2016 19:24:22 GMT -5
Can they ever get back to the days where guys get a pop for a headlock takedown and a headscissor reversal, or reversing an abdominal stretch? In recent memory, I can only remember that happening at MITB 2011. Fans were cheering Punk and Cena for basic chain wrestling reversals, it was beautiful. And it was because there was so much investment from the crowd in the performers. WWE HAS to figure out how to cultivate that investment again. They've chased chants and merch sales for so long, that stuff is all very surface level. I think it all comes down to how much the fans care about the characters. How much did Stone Cold and The Rock do in the ring? Almost nothing in terms of high risk or complicated moves, but people wanted to see them win and wanted to see the guys they were facing lose. If you made a babyface the fans like and a heel they hated, a simple punch can get a big pop. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 19:29:54 GMT -5
Can they ever get back to the days where guys get a pop for a headlock takedown and a headscissor reversal, or reversing an abdominal stretch? In recent memory, I can only remember that happening at MITB 2011. Fans were cheering Punk and Cena for basic chain wrestling reversals, it was beautiful. And it was because there was so much investment from the crowd in the performers. WWE HAS to figure out how to cultivate that investment again. They've chased chants and merch sales for so long, that stuff is all very surface level. I think it all comes down to how much the fans care about the characters. How much did Stone Cold and The Rock do in the ring? Almost nothing in terms of high risk or complicated moves, but people wanted to see them win and wanted to see the guys they were facing lose. If you made a babyface the fans like and a heel they hated, a simple punch can get a big pop. Problem is the trend these days is making the fans care by doing the complicated high risk moves and taking wild bumps. That's the only reason anyone on earth cares about Dolph Ziggler, for example. |
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Post by Dub H on Jan 7, 2016 19:33:59 GMT -5
I think it all comes down to how much the fans care about the characters. How much did Stone Cold and The Rock do in the ring? Almost nothing in terms of high risk or complicated moves, but people wanted to see them win and wanted to see the guys they were facing lose. If you made a babyface the fans like and a heel they hated, a simple punch can get a big pop. Problem is the trend these days is making the fans care by doing the complicated high risk moves and taking wild bumps. That's the only reason anyone on earth cares about Dolph Ziggler, for example. not true  plus Ziggler is the one least injured by bumps funny enough,i think the times he was out,he was kicked in the head. And almost no one bumps like Ziggler. |
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Post by thecrusherwi on Jan 7, 2016 19:34:26 GMT -5
I think it all comes down to how much the fans care about the characters. How much did Stone Cold and The Rock do in the ring? Almost nothing in terms of high risk or complicated moves, but people wanted to see them win and wanted to see the guys they were facing lose. If you made a babyface the fans like and a heel they hated, a simple punch can get a big pop. Problem is the trend these days is making the fans care by doing the complicated high risk moves and taking wild bumps. That's the only reason anyone on earth cares about Dolph Ziggler, for example. Well that is where the problem lies. What I said is much easier said than done. If you're the creative team/management, it's much easier to tell a guy to go out there and fly around and kill himself than actually create an interesting character. Well at least while retaining all of the control they want. I know it's a whole other topic, but by having writers, they make things much too hard on themselves. I care almost nothing about Neville, because I saw him for 2 years as just a guy without charisma who does a bunch of cool moves. Then I watch him be himself for 20 mins on his Table for 3 episode and I instantly became a huge fan because he's a witty, personable, yet determined guy. If they would let that guy be on TV, you wouldn't need any writers. I'm sure that goes the same for 90% of the current roster. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 19:37:07 GMT -5
Too many shows and too many spots per match. This is one of many reasons why they need to have more jobber squash matches and more mat/chain wrestling. It's also why WWE needs to take better care of fatigued or injured performers.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 19:39:17 GMT -5
Too many shows and too many spots per match. This is one of many reasons why they need to have more jobber squash matches and more mat/chain wrestling. It's also why WWE needs to take better care of fatigued or injured performers. You can't go back to jobber squashes though. That would mean less PPVS and/or lower PPV sales which means less revenue and a drop in stock prices. |
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Post by sportatorium on Jan 7, 2016 20:08:08 GMT -5
In ring style compared to the old days? Bret Hart worked stiffer than anyone on the current roster not named Lesnar. Brody & Hansen would make these guys pee themselves.
I do agree that they work too many matches & have way too many highspots. Daniel Bryan is the living example.
Don't forget that between Somas, steroids, other anti inflammatories and HGH that people were working through a lot in the old days.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 20:12:57 GMT -5
It may have been news but it was reported some months ago that WWE wanted to pretty much replicate ROH so they started doing more apron bumps etc.
Seems to me WWE isn't lookin at this any other except they feel the need and pressure to compete with the more fast paced hard hitting style of other companies without ever taking into account the difference in schedules.
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Post by StormanReigns on Jan 7, 2016 20:20:03 GMT -5
Let's not gorget, peeps, the point of this is to not get hurt. I have never seen as many injuries hit a roster, I have been watching for 25 years. That indy, balls to the wall, style has finally infiltrated WWE fully. The problem is, WWE guys work 4 or 5 nights a week. No human body can do that every night. Guys go balls to the wall at house shows. This injury problem is no longer cpincidence. I am, honestly, not enjoying things as much because of how hurt guys are getting. Not just because top guys are missing, thus lowering my enjoyment, but it is not the same if guys are REALLY getting hurt. Like I said, that is the whole point. Guys are less willing to work through injuries in this day and age IMO. Which is actually probably a good thing for the business. Seeing guys at 50 who can barely walk is not exactly going to give wrestling the best image. |
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Post by abjordans on Jan 7, 2016 20:23:26 GMT -5
Can they ever get back to the days where guys get a pop for a headlock takedown and a headscissor reversal, or reversing an abdominal stretch? In recent memory, I can only remember that happening at MITB 2011. Fans were cheering Punk and Cena for basic chain wrestling reversals, it was beautiful. And it was because there was so much investment from the crowd in the performers. WWE HAS to figure out how to cultivate that investment again. They've chased chants and merch sales for so long, that stuff is all very surface level. I think it all comes down to how much the fans care about the characters. How much did Stone Cold and The Rock do in the ring? Almost nothing in terms of high risk or complicated moves, but people wanted to see them win and wanted to see the guys they were facing lose. If you made a babyface the fans like and a heel they hated, a simple punch can get a big pop. That is the thread in a nutshell. That is probably why ratings are down too. These awesome moves are awesome, but we see them so much we are desensitized to them. Plus, the moves are part of the spectacle. But, it is never what brought back large groups of audience. The characters and stories were. The moves were the icing on the cake and an awesome sizzle, but never the steak. Now, the insane matches are the selling point of WWE. So, that is bringing in awful ratings because these matches are like stand alone pieces. They are great, but they may not create repeat viewing. They are like catchy singles that don't translate to album sales. Basically, cats are out here killing themselves for nothing. |
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plus Ziggler is the one least injured by bumps funny enough,i think the times he was out,he was kicked in the head.
