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Post by abjordans on Jan 7, 2016 20:24:58 GMT -5
Let's not gorget, peeps, the point of this is to not get hurt. I have never seen as many injuries hit a roster, I have been watching for 25 years. That indy, balls to the wall, style has finally infiltrated WWE fully. The problem is, WWE guys work 4 or 5 nights a week. No human body can do that every night. Guys go balls to the wall at house shows. This injury problem is no longer cpincidence. I am, honestly, not enjoying things as much because of how hurt guys are getting. Not just because top guys are missing, thus lowering my enjoyment, but it is not the same if guys are REALLY getting hurt. Like I said, that is the whole point. Guys are less willing to work through injuries in this day and age IMO. Which is actually probably a good thing for the business. Seeing guys at 50 who can barely walk is not exactly going to give wrestling the best image. I don't think these are injuries that can be worked through... These guys are requiring surgery.
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Juice
El Dandy
Wrong? Oh he can tell ya about being wrong.
I'm the one who raised you from perdition.
Posts: 8,172
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Post by Juice on Jan 7, 2016 20:51:56 GMT -5
A persons injuries really don't bother me at all. The whole "we do this for you" thing isn't true at all. They are there for themselves, because they want to be there. And they know the risks. And sure it can be a bummer if someone I like has to take time off, but really all of this injures have just kept things interesting. I am more interested in the Royal Rumble now than I have been in years. I may actually watch this one, making it the second ppv since Mania.
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Post by abjordans on Jan 7, 2016 21:38:43 GMT -5
A persons injuries really don't bother me at all. The whole "we do this for you" thing isn't true at all. They are there for themselves, because they want to be there. And they know the risks. And sure it can be a bummer if someone I like has to take time off, but really all of this injures have just kept things interesting. I am more interested in the Royal Rumble now than I have been in years. I may actually watch this one, making it the second ppv since Mania. It doesn't bother me because I care about the performers so much, but more because things are moving away from what professional wrestling is supposed to be. It would be like if the NBA evolved to where people ONLY scored by dunking. Not the way the game is supposed to be played.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jan 7, 2016 22:13:54 GMT -5
If all of these guys slowed down in the ring, people would just say they're "boring", or claim that these people are "shitty" wrestlers, including some of the people who are down on the heaVy workrate stuff. They have people who don't (or don't get to) have the epic Indy spotfest matches weekly and people tend to sleep on them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 22:31:15 GMT -5
Too many shows and too many spots per match. This is one of many reasons why they need to have more jobber squash matches and more mat/chain wrestling. It's also why WWE needs to take better care of fatigued or injured performers. You can't go back to jobber squashes though. That would mean less PPVS and/or lower PPV sales which means less revenue and a drop in stock prices. They can still do plenty of PPVs. It'd actually keep things fresher because we'd get to see more wrestlers show off more of their movesets, but they wouldn't have to wrestle as often. Right now, booking is extremely repetitive and it's getting crushed by the law of diminishing returns. They need to be willing to soak some worse ratings for a short time so that fans adjust to popular wrestlers not necessarily wrestling each other all the time.
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Jan 7, 2016 22:42:57 GMT -5
One of the issues I have is why they have high-risk matches at house shows? Diddn't Rollins get injured attempting a table spot.
Just have the houses low-risk, low-key simple matches. Have the big names appear like Cena, Reigns etc in standard tag matches with minimal risk. The fans get to see their favourites and the wrestlers don't have to risk taking spots off cages or being choke-slammed through a table.
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Post by abjordans on Jan 7, 2016 22:47:27 GMT -5
One of the issues I have is why they have high-risk matches at house shows? Diddn't Rollins get injured attempting a table spot. Just have the houses low-risk, low-key simple matches. Have the big names appear like Cena, Reigns etc in standard tag matches with minimal risk. The fans get to see their favourites and the wrestlers don't have to risk taking spots off cages or being choke-slammed through a table. It wasnt a table spot, but it was a damn sunset flip powerbomb off the ropes(I have seen it phrased as a routine spot pfft). Harley Race wasn't doing that shit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 22:54:53 GMT -5
Aren't the house shows used as the "let loose" times for the guys and gals? where they can actually have fun and freely do things out of character pretty much a breather.
Would suck for them if the tv shackles were put on for house shows to but at this rate it may be needed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 23:00:24 GMT -5
One of the issues I have is why they have high-risk matches at house shows? Diddn't Rollins get injured attempting a table spot. Just have the houses low-risk, low-key simple matches. Have the big names appear like Cena, Reigns etc in standard tag matches with minimal risk. The fans get to see their favourites and the wrestlers don't have to risk taking spots off cages or being choke-slammed through a table. It wasnt a table spot, but it was a damn sunset flip powerbomb off the ropes(I have seen it phrased as a routine spot pfft). Harley Race wasn't doing that shit. Well no, Harley was ruining his body with the diving head butt.
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Post by darkjourney on Jan 7, 2016 23:23:44 GMT -5
Its catering to all the "work rate" fans and in order to do that you have to almost literally kill yourself and pull double duty in one match and now everyone is trying to outdo the other in the ring. What people forget is its all about charisma, talking people into the building, storytelling etc.
Rock, Austin, Hogan never even climbed to the top rope. People forgot less is more
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 23:40:03 GMT -5
Basically, cats are out here killing themselves for nothing.Exactly. I can't think of a match recently that defines this than Sheamus/Reigns at TLC. They were killing each other to get reactions but the crowd didn't even care until Triple H showed up. The fans need to truly care and then it can evolve from that. Without the fans caring? It won't matter much.
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Post by paperbackhero on Jan 7, 2016 23:41:29 GMT -5
Too many shows and too many spots per match. This is one of many reasons why they need to have more jobber squash matches and more mat/chain wrestling. It's also why WWE needs to take better care of fatigued or injured performers. You can't go back to jobber squashes though. That would mean less PPVS and/or lower PPV sales which means less revenue and a drop in stock prices. PPv's were where you had matches of guys on top and mid card....squashes were for free television....made you want to watch the big shows. It wouldnt hurt the revenue stream, imo.
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Post by sportatorium on Jan 7, 2016 23:46:00 GMT -5
It wasnt a table spot, but it was a damn sunset flip powerbomb off the ropes(I have seen it phrased as a routine spot pfft). Harley Race wasn't doing that shit. Well no, Harley was ruining his body with the diving head butt. That, and taking chair shots & laying football style contact with guys like Blackjack Mulligan without pads.
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Post by paperbackhero on Jan 7, 2016 23:46:57 GMT -5
One of the issues I have is why they have high-risk matches at house shows? Diddn't Rollins get injured attempting a table spot. Just have the houses low-risk, low-key simple matches. Have the big names appear like Cena, Reigns etc in standard tag matches with minimal risk. The fans get to see their favourites and the wrestlers don't have to risk taking spots off cages or being choke-slammed through a table. It wasnt a table spot, but it was a damn sunset flip powerbomb off the ropes(I have seen it phrased as a routine spot pfft). Harley Race wasn't doing that shit
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2016 0:50:32 GMT -5
We can't use this string of injuries to say the in-ring style is too rough. At least, we can't do it YET.
-Nikki was a victim of her own unimpressive, awkward finisher.
-Kidd's injury was an unprecedented botch.
-Sasha says reports of her injury are bullshit.
-Rollins actually WAS taken down by a crazy spot.
-Cena is most assuredly a victim of overwork.
-We don't know exactly how Cesaro or Dana Brooke got injured; we only know Cesaro had been working hurt.
Going solely off of the circumstances of this shit? No, crazy spots aren't to blame.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Jan 8, 2016 1:23:47 GMT -5
You can't go back to jobber squashes though. That would mean less PPVS and/or lower PPV sales which means less revenue and a drop in stock prices. PPv's were where you had matches of guys on top and mid card....squashes were for free television....made you want to watch the big shows. It wouldnt hurt the revenue stream, imo. I don't see how it would either. A bunch of people like jobber squashes, like myself. Free tv used to be all jobber squashes, and then it was all big name fights. I don't see why it can't be a mixture of both. Really big spots should be reserved for big matches too. There's a problem when a move called a suicide dive becomes routine.
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mrbananagrabber
King Koopa
Paul Heyman's unofficial joke writer
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Post by mrbananagrabber on Jan 8, 2016 5:47:30 GMT -5
The fact that guys are doing those f***ing dives through the ropes about fight nights a week can't help.
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Post by celtics543 on Jan 8, 2016 8:04:00 GMT -5
The point of pro wrestling is to make it LOOK like you're hurting someone without actually hurting them. Bret Hart mentions this in his book when he talks about the lunacy of guys doing knife edge chops and how they actually hurt. Are the marks in the crowd or in the ring?
I know the Attitude Era was crash style tv but the matches were probably easier on the body. They would go crazy a few times a year with some death defying stunt through a table or off a ladder but the week to week matches were usually no more than 5 minutes and didn't really consist of huge bumps. Today week to week guys are wrestling much longer matches and upping the danger factor to heights we haven't really seen before. Unfortunately people are getting hurt but it's not a huge surprise.
The main problem is that in the Attitude era everyone cared about the character and the storyline, the actual wrestling actually wasn't as important because the story and characters was strong enough to drive everything, whereas now the wrestling is driving everything because characters and story are both weak. At this point we have several guys whose character is that they are a good wrestler, forcing them to wrestle long matches every week to keep the character going. Fifteen years ago we had a wrestling pimp fighting a wrestling porn star in a five minute match of basic moves that crowds were going crazy for.
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Post by joeiscool on Jan 8, 2016 10:32:41 GMT -5
Schedule, wellness, and the end of the brand split.
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thecrusherwi
El Dandy
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Post by thecrusherwi on Jan 8, 2016 11:06:18 GMT -5
PPv's were where you had matches of guys on top and mid card....squashes were for free television....made you want to watch the big shows. It wouldnt hurt the revenue stream, imo. I don't see how it would either. A bunch of people like jobber squashes, like myself. Free tv used to be all jobber squashes, and then it was all big name fights. I don't see why it can't be a mixture of both. Really big spots should be reserved for big matches too. There's a problem when a move called a suicide dive becomes routine. I love jobber squash matches. They are quick and serve as an infomercial of what a guy has to offer. I know every midcard guy's signature and finishing moves from the late 80s until the early 2000s. If not for the video game, I wouldn't know half of the guys finishers today because a bunch of guys never get to use them. Plus there was nothing as awesome as tuning into Superstars back in the day expecting some mindless squashes and having Vince say "and in a special match today we have Demolition Smash taking on...THE UULLLLLLLTIMATE WARRIORRRRRR!!". It felt like the biggest thing in history. And then if it was simple 5 minute back and forth match that had a definitive winner, it felt like a great match, even if it wasn't. I'd like to see that again.
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