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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 16:40:54 GMT -5
Did he ever eat a pin while with the shield. The only times I know of that he has been pinned were both of the cash in s. Which I don't consider clean loses.
I can count on one hand the number of times Cena has lost, without any shenanigans during the last 3 years.
3 years? - Ryback - Payback 16/06/13 (WWE Championship - Three Stages of Hell) (stage 1: singles match) - Daniel Bryan - Summerslam 18/08/13 (WWE Championship) - Brock Lesnar - Summerslam 17/08/14 (WWE World Heavyweight Championship) - Kevin Owens - Elimination Chamber 31/05/15 - Alberto Del Rio - Hell in a Cell 25/10/15 (United States Championship) Last time Reigns was pinned clean in a 1v1 with no shenanigans was in 2012 in FCW and even after he lost the match, he beat the shit out of his opponent. Can't compare them.
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Post by CeilingFan on Apr 15, 2016 17:02:26 GMT -5
I can count on one hand the number of times Cena has lost, without any shenanigans during the last 3 years.
3 years? - Ryback - Payback 16/06/13 (WWE Championship - Three Stages of Hell) (stage 1: singles match) - Daniel Bryan - Summerslam 18/08/13 (WWE Championship) - Brock Lesnar - Summerslam 17/08/14 (WWE World Heavyweight Championship) - Kevin Owens - Elimination Chamber 31/05/15 - Alberto Del Rio - Hell in a Cell 25/10/15 (United States Championship) Last time Reigns was pinned clean in a 1v1 with no shenanigans was in 2012 in FCW and even after he lost the match, he beat the shit out of his opponent. Can't compare them.
Well, I was right. 5 matches = 5 fingers
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 15, 2016 17:05:50 GMT -5
Yea but one of those he got smashed buy Brock when has roman ever looked like that. Even if he had one clean loss like that I think some of the resentment would die off I doubt it. Fans tend to actually be MORE hostile to him if he shows vulnerability. Like, the Sheamus cash in alone is pretty strong evidence of that. I guess he's the modern Batista in that regard. No one bought Batista as the underdog, and liked to see him beat dudes up. Roman's in a similar place.
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Post by captainhindsite on Apr 15, 2016 17:14:29 GMT -5
Yea but one of those he got smashed buy Brock when has roman ever looked like that. Even if he had one clean loss like that I think some of the resentment would die off I doubt it. Fans tend to actually be MORE hostile to him if he shows vulnerability. Like, the Sheamus cash in alone is pretty strong evidence of that. I guess he's the modern Batista in that regard. No one bought Batista as the underdog, and liked to see him beat dudes up. Roman's in a similar place. yea your right don't know what I was thinking. When he did face Brock that's what I was hoping for. For him just to get smashed. I said this in a different thread but I get them not really saying much about this while he is supposed to be face but if he does goes full heel then they really should play up that he had basically never really lost
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 17:16:32 GMT -5
3 years? - Ryback - Payback 16/06/13 (WWE Championship - Three Stages of Hell) (stage 1: singles match) - Daniel Bryan - Summerslam 18/08/13 (WWE Championship) - Brock Lesnar - Summerslam 17/08/14 (WWE World Heavyweight Championship) - Kevin Owens - Elimination Chamber 31/05/15 - Alberto Del Rio - Hell in a Cell 25/10/15 (United States Championship) Last time Reigns was pinned clean in a 1v1 with no shenanigans was in 2012 in FCW and even after he lost the match, he beat the shit out of his opponent. Can't compare them.
Well, I was right. 5 matches = 5 fingers
At the same time, you can't really compare Cena and his losses to Reigns and his losses. Reigns is being pushed harder than Cena ever was.
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 15, 2016 17:29:58 GMT -5
I doubt it. Fans tend to actually be MORE hostile to him if he shows vulnerability. Like, the Sheamus cash in alone is pretty strong evidence of that. I guess he's the modern Batista in that regard. No one bought Batista as the underdog, and liked to see him beat dudes up. Roman's in a similar place. yea your right don't know what I was thinking. When he did face Brock that's what I was hoping for. For him just to get smashed. I said this in a different thread but I get them not really saying much about this while he is supposed to be face but if he does goes full heel then they really should play up that he had basically never really lost Yeah, I figure at this point, even if they don't want to turn him heel, they basically have to treat him like a tweener.
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Post by Dub H on Apr 15, 2016 17:34:20 GMT -5
Well, I was right. 5 matches = 5 fingers
At the same time, you can't really compare Cena and his loses to Reigns and his loses. Reigns is being pushed harder than Cena ever was. now count Cena losses on his first 3 years and compare to romans
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thecrusherwi
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Post by thecrusherwi on Apr 15, 2016 17:42:03 GMT -5
I'll give them credit for actually protecting one of the new guys for a change and to have the foresight to protect him when he wasn't yet a star. He wouldn't have been my first choice to do that, but at least it shows they had a plan
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 17:51:48 GMT -5
At the same time, you can't really compare Cena and his loses to Reigns and his loses. Reigns is being pushed harder than Cena ever was. now count Cena losses on his first 3 years and compare to romans Well, offhand he lost his first two matches on the main roster.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 17:55:33 GMT -5
At the same time, you can't really compare Cena and his loses to Reigns and his loses. Reigns is being pushed harder than Cena ever was. now count Cena losses on his first 3 years and compare to romans Sure. - Kurt Angle - Smackdown 27/06/02 - Reverend D-Von - Smackdown 29/08/02 - Brock Lesnar - Smackdown 19/09/02 - Rikishi - Smackdown 07/11/02 - Rikishi - Smackdown 21/11/02 - Brock Lesnar - Backlash 27/04/03 (WWE Championship) - The Undertaker - Vengeance 27/07/03 - Kurt Angle - No Mercy 19/10/03 Like I said, there should be no comparing Cena's losses to Roman's. Cena lost 8 times clean in his first few years on the main roster in 1v1s, Roman hasn't lost once since he's joined the main roster. Roman's pushed far more than Cena ever was.
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Brainbustaaah!
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Post by Brainbustaaah! on Apr 15, 2016 18:05:39 GMT -5
At the same time, you can't really compare Cena and his loses to Reigns and his loses. Reigns is being pushed harder than Cena ever was. now count Cena losses on his first 3 years and compare to romans Okay, I'll bite. Here's seven clean losses, six of which Cena took the fall for, in his first six months. 2002: Smackdown, 6/27/02: Kurt Angle def. John Cena via pin Smackdown, 7/4/02: Chris Jericho def. John Cena via pin Smackdown, 8/29/02: Reverend D-Von def. John Cena via pin Smackdown, 9/12/02: Los Guerreros def. Edge and John Cena via pin (Eddie pinned Cena) Smackdown, 9/19/02: Brock Lesnar def. John Cena via pin Smackdown, 10/10/02: Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit def. John Cena and Billy Kidman via submission (Benoit submitted Kidman) Rebellion, 10/26/02: Billy Kidman and Torrie Wilson def. John Cena and Dawn Marie via pin (Kidman pinned Cena) In addition, Cena would eat two clean pinfall losses to Rikishi within the month of November. Again, this is all within the same calendar year that Cena debuted, and includes such luminaries as Reverend D-Von and Billy Kidman. Cena got nowhere near the protection of Reigns in his initial push, and even after he went full Doctor of Thuganomics, he still dropped falls to the likes of Rhyno and 2003 Billy Gunn. Sorry, got on a bit of a kick there.
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Post by tms on Apr 15, 2016 18:34:19 GMT -5
He's the new Goldberg, minus the whole being over thing... And the physique, and the insane feats of strength, and...
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Post by kendrickisking on Apr 15, 2016 18:40:44 GMT -5
You mean to tell me a top face hasn't had a clean loss in a while? HaHaHa. In what world is Roman Reigns a top face? Other then Vince's imaginary headspace?
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Apr 15, 2016 20:02:07 GMT -5
The thing is, he shouldn't really lose. You need to protect your top guys so that their losses actually matter. The real issue is that they seem to only be able to protect one guy at a time, because they're narrow-minded. Anyone who has top of the card potential should be eating minimal losses, that's just sensible business.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Apr 15, 2016 21:44:34 GMT -5
now count Cena losses on his first 3 years and compare to romans Okay, I'll bite. Here's seven clean losses, six of which Cena took the fall for, in his first six months. 2002: Smackdown, 6/27/02: Kurt Angle def. John Cena via pin Smackdown, 7/4/02: Chris Jericho def. John Cena via pin Smackdown, 8/29/02: Reverend D-Von def. John Cena via pin Smackdown, 9/12/02: Los Guerreros def. Edge and John Cena via pin (Eddie pinned Cena) Smackdown, 9/19/02: Brock Lesnar def. John Cena via pin Smackdown, 10/10/02: Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit def. John Cena and Billy Kidman via submission (Benoit submitted Kidman) Rebellion, 10/26/02: Billy Kidman and Torrie Wilson def. John Cena and Dawn Marie via pin (Kidman pinned Cena) In addition, Cena would eat two clean pinfall losses to Rikishi within the month of November. Again, this is all within the same calendar year that Cena debuted, and includes such luminaries as Reverend D-Von and Billy Kidman. Cena got nowhere near the protection of Reigns in his initial push, and even after he went full Doctor of Thuganomics, he still dropped falls to the likes of Rhyno and 2003 Billy Gunn. Sorry, got on a bit of a kick there. now count Cena losses on his first 3 years and compare to romans Sure. - Kurt Angle - Smackdown 27/06/02 - Reverend D-Von - Smackdown 29/08/02 - Brock Lesnar - Smackdown 19/09/02 - Rikishi - Smackdown 07/11/02 - Rikishi - Smackdown 21/11/02 - Brock Lesnar - Backlash 27/04/03 (WWE Championship) - The Undertaker - Vengeance 27/07/03 - Kurt Angle - No Mercy 19/10/03 Like I said, there should be no comparing Cena's losses to Roman's. Cena lost 8 times clean in his first few years on the main roster in 1v1s, Roman hasn't lost once since he's joined the main roster. Roman's pushed far more than Cena ever was. Question. Are we going Cena's first 3 years in general or would it be more appropriate to go the first 3 years once they strapped the rocket to his back?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 22:12:52 GMT -5
Okay, I'll bite. Here's seven clean losses, six of which Cena took the fall for, in his first six months. 2002: Smackdown, 6/27/02: Kurt Angle def. John Cena via pin Smackdown, 7/4/02: Chris Jericho def. John Cena via pin Smackdown, 8/29/02: Reverend D-Von def. John Cena via pin Smackdown, 9/12/02: Los Guerreros def. Edge and John Cena via pin (Eddie pinned Cena) Smackdown, 9/19/02: Brock Lesnar def. John Cena via pin Smackdown, 10/10/02: Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit def. John Cena and Billy Kidman via submission (Benoit submitted Kidman) Rebellion, 10/26/02: Billy Kidman and Torrie Wilson def. John Cena and Dawn Marie via pin (Kidman pinned Cena) In addition, Cena would eat two clean pinfall losses to Rikishi within the month of November. Again, this is all within the same calendar year that Cena debuted, and includes such luminaries as Reverend D-Von and Billy Kidman. Cena got nowhere near the protection of Reigns in his initial push, and even after he went full Doctor of Thuganomics, he still dropped falls to the likes of Rhyno and 2003 Billy Gunn. Sorry, got on a bit of a kick there. Sure. - Kurt Angle - Smackdown 27/06/02 - Reverend D-Von - Smackdown 29/08/02 - Brock Lesnar - Smackdown 19/09/02 - Rikishi - Smackdown 07/11/02 - Rikishi - Smackdown 21/11/02 - Brock Lesnar - Backlash 27/04/03 (WWE Championship) - The Undertaker - Vengeance 27/07/03 - Kurt Angle - No Mercy 19/10/03 Like I said, there should be no comparing Cena's losses to Roman's. Cena lost 8 times clean in his first few years on the main roster in 1v1s, Roman hasn't lost once since he's joined the main roster. Roman's pushed far more than Cena ever was. Question. Are we going Cena's first 3 years in general or would it be more appropriate to go the first 3 years once they strapped the rocket to his back? Either or works since in either stipulation Cena's lost way more than Reigns.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Apr 15, 2016 22:22:51 GMT -5
Question. Are we going Cena's first 3 years in general or would it be more appropriate to go the first 3 years once they strapped the rocket to his back? Either or works because even if we go by when they strapped the rocket to Cena's back he's still lost more times than Reigns. I think the "rocket to his back" 3 year period would be better to go with even if he lost more than reigns that would prob be the more "fair" comparison.
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Apr 15, 2016 22:26:29 GMT -5
With Reigns they got the mindset of the 80's booking for your top face to not to do any clean jobs. Back then the mindset was too many jobs kill the drawing power
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Post by Dub H on Apr 15, 2016 22:56:36 GMT -5
With Reigns they got the mindset of the 80's booking for your top face to not to do any clean jobs. Back then the mindset was too many jobs kill the drawing power But Vince is clearly not out of touch
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Post by andrew8798 on Apr 15, 2016 22:57:37 GMT -5
Even with HHH Reigns will be at top
Roman got Vince, HHH, Paul E on his side
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