Looking back at the Attitude Era.....

[Amazing Kitsune]

May 11, 2016 20:04:11 GMT -5 darkjourney said:

1. Must watch TV. You didn't want to miss a Monday. (Now you can miss 6 months, come back and theres the Mcmahon's bickering and the same old guys in the Main event)
2. Everyone on the card meant something. (Now 2-5 wrestlers mean something out of like 100 plus on the roster)
3. Storylines (Unlike today where its just the Mcmahon's making matches backstage with no storyline to fuel the matches and make them mean something)
4. Creative Freedom (None today)
5. Better writers (Yea.. Russo/Ferrera/Cornette/Prichard etc are 10 times better than the current writing staff)
6. Guys on Top who should have been on top (unlike today)
7. Vince playing great evil authority figure (HHH/Stephanie pale in comparison)

I pretty much agree with all of this. Rewatching it lately, I'm shocked by how well it's held up.


Are there bad, embarrassing things? Yes.

Is the show boring? Pretty much never. Things always seem important. It was a really exciting, fast-paced program where--at the very least--it seemed like almost every character had direction. Of course, it didn't always go anywhere...but it's hard to deny that it was interesting television.

I'm not a BRING BACK TEH ATTIUDE ERA!!!! person. I like that the show today is generally family friendly. That's absolutely not a negative in less you make it become one.

However, the show today could have a bit more of an edge. The show today could have the same kind of sense of urgency that it had during the Attitude Era. The midcard could be much more interesting like it was for most of the Attitude Era as well.


Ideally, I'd like a mix of then and now.

[Deleted]

It was what society wanted at the time. It's that simple really. Society in general was more raunchy and unfiltered. It wasn't as PC or sensitive as it is today, whether you think that's good or bad. It was also new at the time. Look at the Raw set and production value in 97-98, and compare it to 95-96. It was like a completely different company. Never mind the difference in storylines. Also, the nWo was red hot followed by Austin, Rock, eetc, and the anti-hero stuff had never really been tapped into until then. Now it's passe, but back then, it was fresh. Talent being allowed some freedom without having to worry about script reading and so forth was also a big factor. Today's product feels very contrived, which is probably why fans say "BRING BACK THE ATTITUDE ERA!!111!". Not so much the type of storylines, but the feel of the show. Make it feel real, rather than a variety show, and maybe things will change for the better in today's era.

Using today's societal norms and looking back on previous era's of anything is going to make it look "weird". Society nowadays is run by SJW's. That's not a knock as much as it is reality. For wrestling to try to emulate society today when just 5-10-15 years ago they were doing everything that contradicts today's societal norms (misogyny, fat shaming, racism, etc) just comes off incredibly phony. Maybe the Attitude Era was too un-PC to a fault, but it's gone so far the opposite direction that naturally people who watched during the 90's are going to want the old way to return rather than to some degree have their intelligence insulted. It's just natural.

Speaking for myself, I started watching in 87, became a casual/non-viewer from around 93-96, started watching again during the nWo growth to about 2003, and then tapped out. Now I am back to casual/non-viewer. So I've seen a few different societal shifts that wrestling has gone through. Today, I can say the things I have enjoyed off the top of my head since 2003 that I've watched are (in no particular order): Punk's 'Pipebomb' storyline up until he got his balls chopped off by the Game, the Daniel Bryan WM 30 moment, TNA's 2012 run (from around June to BFG that year), and the seamless transition in 2008 in the Shawn Michaels story arcs (from Flair to Batista to Jericho). The things all of those had in common was storytelling. A good story is timeless. Logical stories are timeless. Feuds build-ups are often times more important than the quality of the match. You get those things right, and it doesn't matter what society looks like; it will age well.

[Lupin the Third]

I liked Too Cool.





Don't judge me.

[nickcave]

May 11, 2016 20:21:33 GMT -5 111111 said:

The best year of the Attitude era was 2000, they moved away from all the bad stuff and focused on the better elements of it. In fact it's probably the best year in WWF/E history, the television in every aspect was lightyears ahead of where its at now. Episodes of Raw and Smackdown can be watched standalone, they'd have a storyline that was specific to that episode that actually progressed in the way that something on a drama show would do that then tied in to the larger story. 

It felt like a TV show with different locations and stuff, whereas now it's just a bunch of basic shit that happens in the ring and then loads of shots of people having conversations stood sideways in the same room with a curtain behind them.

They also had a stellar roster that year. The matches were the right length, whereas now they're too long and in the attitude eras worse part they were too short.

The comedy was at its best too, Edge and Christian and Kurt Angle are just 3 of many standouts (the first ones that come to my head)
It still holds up today, whereas late 98/early 99 are f***ing awful.

Early 98 is still quite decent as well.

Come to think of it it's telling that the year after Russo left is the best year and the part of 98 where it seems like he had less freedom to do some of his stupid shit was the better part of the year

That was the year they had that guy who actually put a lot of time and effort into continuity and storytelling as the head writer which apparently he was given a ton of shit for and fired the next year. WWE are idiots.

[Z-A Sandbaggin' Son of a b!%@h]

It's just the times. Much of that time was "edgy" and at the time was awesome. It was also new. Lots of stuff we hadn't seen and after em early 90s WWF it was a nice change of pace. Everything was envelope pushing back then, even the President.

Honestly now we look back and cringe but part of that cringe is because of the over the top PC-edness we all have now. I still look back and enjoy the attitude era. There was lots of stinker matches and angles. But it was new. Exciting and fun. Something that is lacking now and why people look back with such nostalgia.

[CATCH_US IS the Conversation]

May 11, 2016 20:22:31 GMT -5 Heartbreaker said:

A lot of the Attitude Era was very cringe worthy.

I'd love to see those who constantly complain and moan about wanting it back, actually get it back for a night, but it's some of the worst stuff. The Wyatts impregnate Lana, Sami Zayn feeds Kevin Owens shit, Sasha and Becky fighting over Ric Flair and calling each other sluts, Renee Young as Women's Champion.

I wanted the Attitude Era back because back then everyone from top to bottom had something to do. You didn't need to be "The Next Big Thing", or a "big deal fairly quick" or a future/former world champion to be over or relevant. If WWE never lost sight of that, a lot of guys would've had much better careers and people wouldn't become expendable so easily.

[A Platypus Rave is Correct]

May 12, 2016 13:28:13 GMT -5 CATCH_US IS the Conversation said:

May 11, 2016 20:22:31 GMT -5 Heartbreaker said:

A lot of the Attitude Era was very cringe worthy.

I'd love to see those who constantly complain and moan about wanting it back, actually get it back for a night, but it's some of the worst stuff. The Wyatts impregnate Lana, Sami Zayn feeds Kevin Owens shit, Sasha and Becky fighting over Ric Flair and calling each other sluts, Renee Young as Women's Champion.

I wanted the Attitude Era back because back then everyone from top to bottom had something to do. You didn't need to be "The Next Big Thing", or a "big deal fairly quick" or a future/former world champion to be over or relevant. If WWE never lost sight of that, a lot of guys would've had much better careers and people wouldn't become expendable so easily.

But a lot of the stuff to do these people had was terrible bullshit that potentially ruined them from being taken seriously again.

[CATCH_US IS the Conversation]

May 12, 2016 13:34:56 GMT -5 A Platypus Rave is Correct said:

May 12, 2016 13:28:13 GMT -5 CATCH_US IS the Conversation said:

I wanted the Attitude Era back because back then everyone from top to bottom had something to do. You didn't need to be "The Next Big Thing", or a "big deal fairly quick" or a future/former world champion to be over or relevant. If WWE never lost sight of that, a lot of guys would've had much better careers and people wouldn't become expendable so easily.

But a lot of the stuff to do these people had was terrible bullshit that potentially ruined them from being taken seriously again.

I think a lot of wrestlers would rather "not be taken seriously again" because they had a fun, memorable jobber gimmick than "not be taken seriously again" because they were a never-was who never really got to do anything.

I'd rather have Crash Holly or Val Venis' career than that of most of the WWE lower card of the last five years.

[A Platypus Rave is Correct]

May 12, 2016 13:39:26 GMT -5 CATCH_US IS the Conversation said:

May 12, 2016 13:34:56 GMT -5 A Platypus Rave is Correct said:

But a lot of the stuff to do these people had was terrible bullshit that potentially ruined them from being taken seriously again.

I think a lot of wrestlers would rather "not be taken seriously again" because they had a fun, memorable jobber gimmick than "not be taken seriously again" because they were a never-was who never really got to do anything.

Terry Taylor would probably disagree with you.

Shitty gimmicks can kill careers.

not being given anything to do you can go somewhere else on the indies and prove that they missed the boat on you and reinvent yourself.

people like Val Venis and Eugene are never going to get booked as anyone other than the Porn Star and the Mentally Challenged wrestler.

[Shai]

May 12, 2016 13:45:41 GMT -5 A Platypus Rave is Correct said:

May 12, 2016 13:39:26 GMT -5 CATCH_US IS the Conversation said:

I think a lot of wrestlers would rather "not be taken seriously again" because they had a fun, memorable jobber gimmick than "not be taken seriously again" because they were a never-was who never really got to do anything.

Terry Taylor would probably disagree with you.

Shitty gimmicks can kill careers.

not being given anything to do you can go somewhere else on the indies and prove that they missed the boat on you and reinvent yourself.

people like Val Venis and Eugene are never going to get booked as anyone other than the Porn Star and the Mentally Challenged wrestler.

If you look at interviews most of those guys didn't exactly enjoy the crap they were forced to do, Mark Henry though he's been lucky enough to last through it, has said several times he had issues with what they made him do during the AE.

[darkjourney]

I think the MAIN difference between the two eras. (RockNWrestling/Atittude and this one). You just had people in the back with a pulse on what the hell society wanted in terms of entertainment and from their wrestling program.


The problem today is, Vince is just too old and out of touch with reality and those below him (HHH/Stephanie) I just don't feel have a firm grasp on what society wants. HHH wants to appeal to that certain hardcore "work rate" Demographic of fans.. The thing is, these people will probably always watch wrestling regardless of crappy at gets. Their vision will NEVER appeal to masses. Wrestlemania will always probably draw just because its Wrestlemania. But the days of the business being popular again, I just don't see it unless they total retool the management/creative scene with people with a firm grasp on whats gonna draw.


People outside the "wrestling bubble" if you will. Vince/HHH/Stephanie/Hayes etc. have been entrenched in the bubble too long

Its ok if you just want to keep your standard hardcore group of fans but the interest will probably never venture out to new groups of fans.

Its why you have only seen the WWE's business stagnate or decrease. Never truly improve since over a decade now

[Big Poppa Pumpkin]

Charles Warrington got to be Beaver Cleavage, a Marilyn Manson superfan, a domestic abuser, and an angry arab all in the space of 3 years. And he got replaced in the Royal Rumble by Drew Carey. I'm sure he was just happy that he had something to do though.

[Chilly McFreeze]

Feel the same way about a lot of it, but I think it's just a product of its time. And being older now and less dumb... we watched Tom Green in 1998, too, doubt we would now.

[alred1982]

When it comes up on YouTube attitude rulez it's headshots and blading I can live with never seeing that ever again. Pg is a cop out you can still sell a match in those confines if you can't find another job.

[lemonyellowson]

At least everyone had a storyline and a defined gimmick. Also add some of the most iconic moments of all time, yeah I'm still an attitude era guy.

[Mighty Attack Tribble]

May 12, 2016 15:14:43 GMT -5 darkjourney said:

I think the MAIN difference between the two eras. (RockNWrestling/Atittude and this one). You just had people in the back with a pulse on what the hell society wanted in terms of entertainment and from their wrestling program.


The problem today is, Vince is just too old and out of touch with reality and those below him (HHH/Stephanie) I just don't feel have a firm grasp on what society wants. HHH wants to appeal to that certain hardcore "work rate" Demographic of fans.. The thing is, these people will probably always watch wrestling regardless of crappy at gets. Their vision will NEVER appeal to masses. Wrestlemania will always probably draw just because its Wrestlemania. But the days of the business being popular again, I just don't see it unless they total retool the management/creative scene with people with a firm grasp on whats gonna draw.


People outside the "wrestling bubble" if you will. Vince/HHH/Stephanie/Hayes etc. have been entrenched in the bubble too long

Its ok if you just want to keep your standard hardcore group of fans but the interest will probably never venture out to new groups of fans.

Its why you have only seen the WWE's business stagnate or decrease. Never truly improve since over a decade now

When you get right down to it, wrestling is trashy, lowbrow entertainment, and 15 years ago what mainstream society craved was trashy, lowbrow entertainment. Really all Vince did was give the okay for WWE's output to become even trashier and more lowbrow.

Why doesn't wrestling draw any more? Same reason nu metal isn't the big thing in music, platform games aren't the dominant genre in video games, and rom-coms are no longer Hollywood's #1 guaranteed moneymakers. Trends change.

It doesn't matter if Vince, HHH, or Stephanie have a firm grasp on what society wants, because society simply doesn't want wrestling, and wrestling is too much of a niche product to squeeze into a more appealing mould. All they really can do is try to appeal to all the demographics within the wrestling bubble, including the ones that they've neglected over the years, like the "work rate" crowd.

[Yacht Persona]

It was perfect for the time and place that it existed, and that's probably why many of us look back upon it fondly. It's not necessarily that we want the Attitude era back, but rather we want back how it made us feel at the time.

[Deleted]

May 12, 2016 11:27:33 GMT -5 Lupin the Third said:

I liked Too Cool.





Don't judge me.

So did a lot of other people they use to get huge pops.

[devondragon]

I don't need the Attitude Era to return but I would like to be in my early 20s again.

[xCompackx]

May 12, 2016 17:26:58 GMT -5 alred1982 said:

When it comes up on YouTube attitude rulez it's headshots and blading I can live with never seeing that ever again. Pg is a cop out you can still sell a match in those confines if you can't find another job.

That's the big thing for me; blaming WWE's problems on "it's PG now" is a bullshit excuse that is used to justify Vince/Creative not trying. You don't need blood, women barking like dogs, dick jokes (even though we still have that, sadly), and gimmicks intended to be offensive in order for wrestling to be fun; it just takes a level of commitment to create interesting storylines, whether serious or silly, and an ability to listen to what your fans want. It's really not that hard.