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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Nov 16, 2017 11:14:05 GMT -5
It'd be like comparing Saving Private Ryan to Inglorious Bastards. Both are WWII movies but trying to compare the two is a bit disingenuous because you're basically saying "I'm not reviewing this movie for what it's trying to do but what it could have done if it were more like this other movie I already enjoy." But a competent reviewer wouldn't compare Inglorious Basterds to Saving Private Ryan. But what's wrong with comparing Saving Private Ryan to The Thin Red Line? Came out at a similar time, told a similar story, and were trying to achieve basically the same goal in film making. It's perfectly normal to use reference points that people would be familiar with (a movie they've already seen) as a way of making a point about something someone isn't familiar with (a movie they haven't yet seen)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2017 11:24:02 GMT -5
It'd be like comparing Saving Private Ryan to Inglorious Bastards. Both are WWII movies but trying to compare the two is a bit disingenuous because you're basically saying "I'm not reviewing this movie for what it's trying to do but what it could have done if it were more like this other movie I already enjoy." But a competent reviewer wouldn't compare Inglorious Basterds to Saving Private Ryan. But what's wrong with comparing Saving Private Ryan to The Thin Red Line? Came out at a similar time, told a similar story, and were trying to achieve basically the same goal in film making. It's perfectly normal to use reference points that people would be familiar with (a movie they've already seen) as a way of making a point about something someone isn't familiar with (a movie they haven't yet seen) That's kinda my point. Which is why I said, "It can occasionally be done well..." early on in the post. I totally agree though - comparisons can really do a lot to help viewers understand why directors made a certain choice (based on their influences) or how certain character traits are common across a set of films. But most of times I've seen it, it's not so well thought out. Its usually "its not like _______, which I liked better so it falters as a movie," which is a key indicator of a less-than-competent reviewer.
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Nov 16, 2017 11:27:22 GMT -5
Saw it just now... And the reviews are pretty spot on. It's not a "bad" film, but the tone feels really inconsistent. Like serious-comedy-serious-comedy and for me, the comedy fell really flat. Additionally, the pacing feels super fast. It's two hours but it feels like the film doesn't have time to let things just breath. Ever see Mortal Kombat: Annihilation? It felt like that kind of pace. I don't know who to blame: Zack Synder, Joss Whedon, WB corporate bigwigs... it just felt slapped together in some parts. Although they made Aquaman fairly badass I thought they kinda made the Flash like a total dweeb. I just feel like this film was really cut down to fit into a two hour length. In fact, I thought I spotted a continuity error in one scene. Wonder Woman has an additional article of clothing and I was like, "Where the hell did that come from?" Two after credits scenes: One after a short like 10 second credit and one at the very end. Finally BIG SPOILER ABOUT THE AFTER CREDITS SCENE: WARNING!{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}Why do the Legion of Doom now? I get maybe they don't want to do Darkseid because of the Thanos comparsions, but Legion of Doom just feels early to me when the DC universe has had stumble after stumble. Man, can you imagine what the DC universe would have been like with a Kevin Feige at the helm? Or at least someone who understood these characters a lot better? Now I will form my own opinion of course...but it seems to me like DC IS TNA. And not just the surface comparisons of ridicule. It's like they want to be an alternative to a PG company that isn't perfect, but just keep going at it all wrong. (and hey, we are up to the aping Marvel ideas and former talent point too). I don't want to hate them, though....as I always was a DC person....didn't hate Marvel and came to like a lot of it, but still, the Superfriends and Christopher Reeve, Michael Keaton, etc. etc. were my boys. Well at least post-Rebirth comics seem to be improving. Uh-oh, what's that big bald shadow casting over things?
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Nov 16, 2017 11:30:23 GMT -5
But a competent reviewer wouldn't compare Inglorious Basterds to Saving Private Ryan. But what's wrong with comparing Saving Private Ryan to The Thin Red Line? Came out at a similar time, told a similar story, and were trying to achieve basically the same goal in film making. It's perfectly normal to use reference points that people would be familiar with (a movie they've already seen) as a way of making a point about something someone isn't familiar with (a movie they haven't yet seen) That's kinda my point. Which is why I said, "It can occasionally be done well..." early on in the post. I totally agree though - comparisons can really do a lot to help viewers understand why directors made a certain choice (based on their influences) or how certain character traits are common across a set of films. But most of times I've seen it, it's not so well thought out. Its usually "its not like _______, which I liked better so it falters as a movie," which is a key indicator of a less-than-competent reviewer. Alrighty then, guess we are on the same page. I have seen reviews like what you mention there, but then after that I usually don't go to that site for reviews anymore. Alot of internet reviews are just garbage.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2017 11:48:58 GMT -5
I think comparing Suicide Squad to Guardians of the Galaxy is really kind of justifiable, since its advertising certainly played it that way and one of the biggest issues with the movie is how it can't make up its mind if it wants to be a screwball ensemble dark comedy or if it wants to be a dead-serious save the world, we're becoming a family story so it just kind of blows at both. Guardians of the Galaxy while fun is more flawed than people tend to admit but at least it's well aware of what it's trying to be.
Though really more than that the more damning thing you could say about Suicide Squad is it just isn't the Suicide Squad. It doesn't nail the idea or tone of what the group is supposed to be at all.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2017 11:55:14 GMT -5
I think comparing Suicide Squad to Guardians of the Galaxy is really kind of justifiable, since its advertising certainly played it that way and one of the biggest issues with the movie is how it can't make up its mind if it wants to be a screwball ensemble dark comedy or if it wants to be a dead-serious save the world, we're becoming a family story so it just kind of blows at both. Guardians of the Galaxy while fun is more flawed than people tend to admit but at least it's well aware of what it's trying to be. Though really more than that the more damning thing you could say about Suicide Squad is it just isn't the Suicide Squad. It doesn't nail the idea or tone of what the group is supposed to be at all. There are a lot of complaints I could lodge on both films tbh, but after seeing them both, SS & GotG would be in completely different sub-genres within the superhero genre. Squad was more a straight up actioner that had more in common with a 'nam war movie (bunch of dudes being dropped into a war zone without being told what they're getting into) whereas GoTG was more like a Star Wars side story (fantasy, fun, etc). But I def agree that the marketing for Squad was all over the place. I didn't see it as a screwball dark comedy at all though. They had some movements of levity but overall they played it pretty straight up, like your typical David Ayer script actually. Whether or not it was actually like the comics is irrelevant to me or how I watch movies based on other works, but I can see how it would irk people.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 16, 2017 12:19:38 GMT -5
Said it before, but I'm ok with the Avengers comparisons some critics make insofar as DC/WB were clearly trying to play catch-up with Marvel by doing things the way they did; filmmaking style was different, sure, but they wanted to get to the big team up movie ASAP and were clearly and directly competing with Marvel. When you do things that way, you open up justifiable comparisons.
That isn't to say one should compare them in ways that don't make sense; for example, I didn't like the "too dark" vs. "too bright" complaints, because those are stylistic choices that ultimately don't determine if the movie you're watching will be good or not, so judging one based on the style the other uses doesn't work for me. But since they're using a lot of the same narrative style in building to team ups, it's fair to hold them up against one another in ways that pertain to that area.
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agent817
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Post by agent817 on Nov 16, 2017 12:44:03 GMT -5
Well, I am going with my brother-in-law to see it tonight. I plan to write a review on it (I will let my friend know that I want to do this for his website) and if it gets published, I will post my take.
Personally, as disappointed as I was with BvS (I didn't HATE it, though), I went into that movie with my own mindset and decided to judge it with my own viewpoint. I am doing the same thing with this film.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Nov 16, 2017 13:24:25 GMT -5
well the official RT score is out. 40%. obviously they're a bunch of evil Marvel fan boys paid off by Disney!
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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Nov 16, 2017 14:41:55 GMT -5
well the official RT score is out. 40%. obviously they're a bunch of evil Marvel fan boys paid off by Disney! It's ME! I was the one who paid RT off all along! ME! I was the one who paid off RT! ME!
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Nov 16, 2017 15:09:43 GMT -5
well the official RT score is out. 40%. obviously they're a bunch of evil Marvel fan boys paid off by Disney! It's ME! I was the one who paid RT off all along! ME! I was the one who paid off RT! ME! Aw son of a bitch!
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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Nov 16, 2017 15:15:28 GMT -5
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Nov 16, 2017 15:16:27 GMT -5
well the official RT score is out. 40%. obviously they're a bunch of evil Marvel fan boys paid off by Disney! Not paid off by Marvel, but critics with an agenda in my opinion. I happened to see it last night and I thought it was pretty damn amazing. I went in with low expectations and came out surprised. My co-worker said last night "If it's not like Marvel, I know I won't like it." I simply said to him "Don't compare it to a Marvel film. Just watch it as a DC film and don't think about it being a Marvel clone."
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Nov 16, 2017 15:21:02 GMT -5
Getting sick of the conspiracy shit i'm seeing of dc fanboys whining bout marvel bias, even though wonder woman was highly praised Were you following the news regarding the production of Wonder Woman? Every online article from critics with a pro-Marvel mindset stated the following "Studio executives scrambling on the set of Wonder Woman", "Rewrites and reshoots galore!", "Gal Gadot upset on the set of Wonder Woman", or "Patty Jenkins is thinking about leaving the movie!" There was always a negative article and nothing positive at all. It just so happened that Wonder Woman overcame the bad press and was highly praised and successful. But don't think for a second that there wasn't some form of an agenda from various critics.
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Post by DiBiase is Good on Nov 16, 2017 16:18:47 GMT -5
So how long until we get the “the RT reviewers are against this film” comments from people who don’t actually realise RT don’t review films, they just accumulate them?
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Nov 16, 2017 16:26:56 GMT -5
So how long until we get the “the RT reviewers are against this film” comments from people who don’t actually realise RT don the review films, they just accumulate them? It's already happened on social media. A lot. You'd be forgiven for thinking the movie is about the Justice League fighting a villainous cabal called Rotten Tomatoes.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Nov 16, 2017 16:27:53 GMT -5
Getting sick of the conspiracy shit i'm seeing of dc fanboys whining bout marvel bias, even though wonder woman was highly praised Were you following the news regarding the production of Wonder Woman? Every online article from critics with a pro-Marvel mindset stated the following "Studio executives scrambling on the set of Wonder Woman", "Rewrites and reshoots galore!", "Gal Gadot upset on the set of Wonder Woman", or "Patty Jenkins is thinking about leaving the movie!" There was always a negative article and nothing positive at all. It just so happened that Wonder Woman overcame the bad press and was highly praised and successful. But don't think for a second that there wasn't some form of an agenda from various critics. Yeah... but when the movie came out the critics agreed the movie was good. did some people jump on the doom and gloom train before hand... yeah, but they had history behind them because WB have been putting out terrible movies up to that point.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Nov 16, 2017 16:34:25 GMT -5
Were you following the news regarding the production of Wonder Woman? Every online article from critics with a pro-Marvel mindset stated the following "Studio executives scrambling on the set of Wonder Woman", "Rewrites and reshoots galore!", "Gal Gadot upset on the set of Wonder Woman", or "Patty Jenkins is thinking about leaving the movie!" There was always a negative article and nothing positive at all. It just so happened that Wonder Woman overcame the bad press and was highly praised and successful. But don't think for a second that there wasn't some form of an agenda from various critics. Yeah... but when the movie came out the critics agreed the movie was good. did some people jump on the doom and gloom train... yeah, but they had history behind them because WB have been putting out terrible movies up to that point. Basically this. Put out a good movie, critics will generally praise it. Put out a bad movie, critics will generally trash it. The mythical pro-Marvel, anti-DC critics don't exist in numbers large enough to move the needle on aggregated score sites like RT and Metacritic. And if we accept that they do exist, we must also accept that there's those who favour DC too. But I've never seen any of either on aggregate sites, to be honest.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Nov 16, 2017 16:38:41 GMT -5
Yeah... but when the movie came out the critics agreed the movie was good. did some people jump on the doom and gloom train... yeah, but they had history behind them because WB have been putting out terrible movies up to that point. Basically this. Put out a good movie, critics will generally praise it. Put out a bad movie, critics will generally trash it. The mythical pro-Marvel, anti-DC critics don't exist in numbers large enough to move the needle on aggregated score sites like RT and Metacritic. And if we accept that they do exist, we must also accept that there's those who favour DC too. But I've never seen any of either on aggregate sites, to be honest. Not to mention... if people were Anti-DC there wouldn't be nearly as many angry reviews of these properties.. because the Marvel fanboys would want DC to fail. It's generally the people that like DC comics that are making the most noise about their movies.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2017 16:48:46 GMT -5
Yeah... but when the movie came out the critics agreed the movie was good. did some people jump on the doom and gloom train... yeah, but they had history behind them because WB have been putting out terrible movies up to that point. Basically this. Put out a good movie, critics will generally praise it. Put out a bad movie, critics will generally trash it. The mythical pro-Marvel, anti-DC critics don't exist in numbers large enough to move the needle on aggregated score sites like RT and Metacritic. And if we accept that they do exist, we must also accept that there's those who favour DC too. But I've never seen any of either on aggregate sites, to be honest. I don't really buy in to the whole dc/mcu critics conspiracy war thing...whatever it is, but the idea that critics will generally praise "good" movies and trash "bad" movies is kinda off base to me because it creates a false sense of objectivity to a subjective experience. And while critics are a bit more susceptible to groupthink, they're not exactly monolithic. The only time "critics generally praising" something means anything ...I mean if you HAD to generalize it in that manner ... I'd say the only thing "general praise" means is that it's not a polarizing film. That's about all critical consensus really means. Now, whether you consider "polarizing" a good or bad thing for a film is up to the individual.
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