Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,513
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Post by Fade on Nov 22, 2017 20:27:05 GMT -5
D.C. Is such a mess man...and I enjoyed JL too, but between this, the Affleck situation, that weird desired Leo/Joker movie...it feels like they're still stuck 10 years ago when the studio thought Jack Black should be Green Lantern. Meanwhile Marvel just slowly gains more and more and more momentum and D.C. clunks awkwardly on..
Partly inspired by seeing a new D.C. vs Marvel action figure YouTube clip that shows D.C. Has barely gained traction in 10 years and Marvel is if anything, ahead of schedule.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 22, 2017 20:27:30 GMT -5
BOM thinks a 56% drop this weekend On the one hand, that's less than Dawn of Justice, so yay? On the other hand, friendly reminder that they need approx. $750M just to break even. Only God knows what the DCEU looks like going forward if Justice League turns out to be a loss.Shit would be dead. I don't even think them screaming loudly that Flashpoint is our reboot for the whole thing would work. At worst they don't bring a big budget for other films but they would def have some decisions to make and what they really expect moving forward
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Nov 22, 2017 20:33:37 GMT -5
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Nov 22, 2017 20:49:57 GMT -5
Was it just me, or was Superman's costume a lot brighter and more saturated than it is on the poster on page 1? It almost felt like they brightened the blue in post production.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Nov 22, 2017 20:56:50 GMT -5
Was it just me, or was Superman's costume a lot brighter and more saturated than it is on the poster on page 1? It almost felt like they brightened the blue in post production. Maybe the only way they could get the CGI to get rid of Cavill's mustache to work was to brighten up his costume?
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Nov 22, 2017 21:18:49 GMT -5
Was it just me, or was Superman's costume a lot brighter and more saturated than it is on the poster on page 1? It almost felt like they brightened the blue in post production. Maybe the only way they could get the CGI to get rid of Cavill's mustache to work was to brighten up his costume? Maybe, but given the overall direction they went with his character, it almost felt like a purposeful attempt to make him brighter and more colorful both figuratively and literally.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Nov 22, 2017 21:31:40 GMT -5
Maybe the only way they could get the CGI to get rid of Cavill's mustache to work was to brighten up his costume? Maybe, but given the overall direction they went with his character, it almost felt like a purposeful attempt to make him brighter and more colorful both figuratively and literally. There was definitely a move to make the entire film brighter, not just in tone, but literally visually brighter. Now, how much of this was the studio (and Whedon's reshoots) and how much of this was Snyder (he claims he always intended Justice League to be lighter than BvS), I'm not sure.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 22, 2017 22:07:24 GMT -5
Just got back from seeing both JL and Thor; Justice League was alright, though less as a standalone movie and more as an extended trailer for "this is the new style and direction we'll start going in, sorry for the last couple of things that weren't Wonder Woman." I mean, the movie on its own isn't that bad, but it's like others here have said: it's a case of wanting to get to big moments or story beats without actually earning them in the first place. But I understand that this flick had to serve as a severing from the tone of the previous movies and thus it was always going to be a bit of a Frankenstein's monster in terms of editing and style; I said it earlier in this thread, but what this movie had to focus on was getting people to like the characters again, and on that front it did a pretty good job. For example, {Spoiler}I thought the whole bit where Aquaman is confessing that he's not confident in them winning at all, blurting out that Diana is beautiful, etc. was weird, but then they reveal that he's got the lasso around his ankle. It was a cute moment, and I leaned over to my girlfriend and whispered "Thank you, Joss Whedon." It was an example of what needed to be done to create a movie world people would want to spend more time in. For anybody who's seen the moviebob YouTube channel, Bob, who often does a long form film analysis series called "Really That Good" that spends 45 minutes to an hour going over the details of why films that are often considered good or memorable often end up being that way and earning their beloved status, has been doing a one-off "Really That Bad" about Batman v Superman, which is so big it's gone now to three nearly 90 minute long episodes. The great tragedy of Batman v Superman, and of a lot of the rest of the DCEU so far, has been that there have been some genuinely interesting ideas put forward for the narrative, but mostly terrible execution, a combination of Snyder not being able to pull the heavy lifting off in his scripting and presentation and the studio suits at WB wanting more and more crammed into these movies, something the Really That Bad spend some time discussing ("Intent vs. Execution"). There's a part of me that's interested in how Snyder wanted to approach Justice League, especially when it was projected to be two movies, but once it became clear that he just couldn't execute his own vision it really became imperative to just focus on making sure audiences would leave the theaters from Justice League just saying "these characters are alright, I'd see another movie with one or more of them in it." It's too bad that meant cutting up the movie in a way that, I'm guessing, probably shortchanged Aquaman and Steppenwolf especially, but it meant getting to a basic and largely sound three act structure put together in under two hours, so I can't really complain given how bloated and overbuilt the BvS script was. I've read that apparently a whole backstory for Aquaman was cut out; they probably figured that they know they're actually making an Aquaman movie, so might as well save most of his story for that. Steppenwolf probably would've been better served having his big flashback battle scene shown as a prologue instead of mid-film with Diana narrating over it. I didn't mind how he was utilized, he was never going to be a particularly deep villain but there was enough fuel there for him to be intimidating enough, which is really what the villain needs to be for a basic first team-up movie. So yeah, ultimately not a bad way to spend two hours, it did what it had to do to rehabilitate most of these characters, but it largely did all it could to pretend BvS didn't happen (at least not the way it actually happened) and, again, it overall worked better as a big "we're sorry, here's how we'll try to do better going forward" trailer than as a complete film on its own.
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Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Nov 23, 2017 4:35:43 GMT -5
I actually kinda loved it.
The only time I actually noticed anything wrong with his lip was in the very beginning when the kid was interviewing him.
And I goddamn love Ben Affleck as Bruce Wayne/Batman, he might actually be my favorite Batman now, it just sucks we won't get to see the Batman movie he wanted to make.
I absolutely loved his confession to Alfred that Superman was more human than he was.
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Post by Citizen Snips on Nov 23, 2017 6:28:37 GMT -5
The Aquaman lasso scene that everyone loves...putting aside that I wasn't nearly as charmed by it as a lot of people are, HOW did the lasso get around him? He was seen sitting on the Batmobile like a cool dude and talking normally, then all of sudden he's doing the confession. Did Wonder Woman just idly toss the lasso on the floor and his foot got tangled in it?
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Post by Pooh Carlson on Nov 23, 2017 9:16:24 GMT -5
The Aquaman lasso scene that everyone loves...putting aside that I wasn't nearly as charmed by it as a lot of people are, HOW did the lasso get around him? He was seen sitting on the Batmobile like a cool dude and talking normally, then all of sudden he's doing the confession. Did Wonder Woman just idly toss the lasso on the floor and his foot got tangled in it? I'd have to watch it again, but I took it as he was sitting on it and didn't realize it was there.
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Post by Citizen Snips on Nov 23, 2017 10:08:50 GMT -5
The Aquaman lasso scene that everyone loves...putting aside that I wasn't nearly as charmed by it as a lot of people are, HOW did the lasso get around him? He was seen sitting on the Batmobile like a cool dude and talking normally, then all of sudden he's doing the confession. Did Wonder Woman just idly toss the lasso on the floor and his foot got tangled in it? I'd have to watch it again, but I took it as he was sitting on it and didn't realize it was there. That's what I thought too but that leads to 1. How did everyone else see the lasso if he was sitting on it? 2. Why did Wonder Woman toss the lasso onto the hood of the Batmobile in the first place? It's one of her main weapons, it's not like she's throwing her coat onto the couch after a long day at work. I'm sure it's just a "Hey, let's work a joke in!" but it just really bugged me how contrived it was.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2017 10:24:26 GMT -5
On the subject of awkward lasso moments, how about right at the start when Diana exposits who it makes people compelled to tell the truth... and then the guy she's doing this to refuses to provide answers anyway.
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Post by cabbageboy on Nov 23, 2017 17:41:05 GMT -5
One problem these DC movies have is that I think they are still in this 1990s mindset where they're the only comic movie game in town and they can put out whatever crap they want and people will flock to it because, well, they always have.
It wasn't an awful way to spend 2 hours, but just saying "It wasn't terrible" is faint praise indeed. I think the problem is that there were so many characters that had zero backstory. Why would they not do an Aquaman movie before putting him in JL? I left feeling as though I barely got to know any of Atlantis at all, yet the movie acts like I know everything about it. It acts like I know everything about Central City and The Flash, which I suppose is less egregious since Flash has been on TV for a few years, but this particular version is not the same as the TV Flash (and while Ezra Miller has been praised for some incomprehensible reason, I personally think Grant Gustin on TV is about 100x better). The biggest problem is with Cyborg though. First off, he's by far the least known of the main characters. We really, really needed a previous solo movie to understand exactly who this guy is, what his origin is, etc. Come to think of it, I don't think anyone actually called him Cyborg in the film! If WWE is guilty of constantly hammering home characters and their relationships as though everyone is a first time viewer, this DC stuff is more like ROH. I spend too much time not knowing who half these people are and the movie/show doesn't tell or explain.
That's a major problem with these DC movies. They act like everyone watching knows all of Aquaman or Cyborg's backstory, their universes of characters, whatever. In the case of Aquaman, Momoa's version is already a bizarre, revisionist "cool antihero" style take on the role. So in this regard the movie gives us a radically different idea on Aquaman compared to everything we've seen of him in comics AND given the character no real backstory or universe. They act like there was this previous Aquaman franchise that died out, so now we have to make him a hairy caveman that looks like Roman Reigns. Couldn't we have the actual legit Aquaman before resorting to revisionist takes?
The finale here really falls into the Harry Potter Syndrome where I feel like everything is happening in some vacuum where no world leaders are aware that an intergalactic madman is trying to destroy earth. Ironic since it's the same studio. It amazes me that Warner Bros. can't get that right. They either have a situation like JL where the entire U.S. government (or Russia since the climax takes place there) is totally oblivious to this chaos, whereas in B v S it seemed like entirely too much of the film was spent on Congressional hearings to the point where it was just tedious. As goofy as the Transformers movies are they at least more or less balance generals and the joint chiefs freaking out over the alien robot invasion with the regular human characters.
It cracked me up that the civilians in need of help here basically amounted to one Russian family. Our heroes don't evacuate entire cities (Superman elevated an entire building, but was anyone in it?). It seems like all of the DC film heroes other than Wonder Woman find it a chore to do anything heroic or save anyone. Aquaman saved the one fisherman and seemed pissed at even having to bother, then made the guy pay for drinks. Batman spent the last movie being the Punisher. Superman was told by his parents not to save anyone, and even in the last one his mom told me he owed humanity nothing. The Flash acted like a craven coward that didn't even want to be there. Cyborg wants to just brood in the shadows. Basically Wonder Woman is the only actual hero in this outfit, and it's no coincidence that her solo movie is the only one of these that has truly found both commercial and critical praise. She's the only character where they literally cannot do some goofy revisionist antihero take.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Nov 23, 2017 20:27:39 GMT -5
I don't necessarily think you needed say a full Cyborg movie beforehand, but at least a five-ten minute run down of 'promising athlete with scientist father gets injured. Scientist father is desperate to save him and makes him a bit of a Frankenstein's monster.'
What people have been saying about DC trying to have big events without earning them is spot on. Go to something like BvS referencing Death of Superman and Dark Knight Returns. Sure, if you're a comics fan you know why those are big deals (though cramming them in the same movie was dumb), but your average audience doesn't. Your average audience ONLY knows Aquaman as the jokey Superfriends thing.. so yeah you kind need to at least give some backstory.
Same deal with Steppenwolf, Darkseid, all that stuff. comics readers know that stuff. Average audiences have no connection with it.
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CMWaters
Ozymandius
Rolled a Seven, Beat the Ads.
Bald and busy
Posts: 63,283
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Post by CMWaters on Nov 23, 2017 22:22:45 GMT -5
Eh, I enjoyed it for what it was (keep in mind I didn't see Man of Steel or BvS, did see Wonder Woman though).
Plus, that subtle chord of the 78 Superman theme made me grin ear to ear when it played.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Nov 23, 2017 22:29:34 GMT -5
Plus, that subtle chord of the 78 Superman theme made me grin ear to ear when it played. It's funny, one thing I've found on social media is that people are pissed that the DCEU themes for Batman and Superman we're shunned in favour of the Batman '89/Superman '78 ones. I didn't think the score was great, but hearing those two iconic themes again was one of the legit best things about the movie.
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CMWaters
Ozymandius
Rolled a Seven, Beat the Ads.
Bald and busy
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Post by CMWaters on Nov 23, 2017 22:36:22 GMT -5
Plus, that subtle chord of the 78 Superman theme made me grin ear to ear when it played. It's funny, one thing I've found on social media is that people are pissed that the DCEU themes for Batman and Superman we're shunned in favour of the Batman '89/Superman '78 ones. I didn't think the score was great, but hearing those two iconic themes again was one of the legit best things about the movie. The main thing about those two themes though is something that's a minor nitpick...with Superman and Batman having their most famous movie themes back, Wonder Woman's seems out of place tone wise. But maybe that's just me.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Nov 23, 2017 22:42:01 GMT -5
It's funny, one thing I've found on social media is that people are pissed that the DCEU themes for Batman and Superman we're shunned in favour of the Batman '89/Superman '78 ones. I didn't think the score was great, but hearing those two iconic themes again was one of the legit best things about the movie. The main thing about those two themes though is something that's a minor nitpick...with Superman and Batman having their most famous movie themes back, Wonder Woman's seems out of place tone wise. But maybe that's just me. Yeah, I agree. The score does pay homage to too many sources. Batman has the '89 theme, Superman has the '78 theme, Wonder Woman has the DCEU theme, and Flash has the CW TV show theme. It's neat, and great fan service, but it's a little jarring.
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CMWaters
Ozymandius
Rolled a Seven, Beat the Ads.
Bald and busy
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Post by CMWaters on Nov 23, 2017 22:53:32 GMT -5
The main thing about those two themes though is something that's a minor nitpick...with Superman and Batman having their most famous movie themes back, Wonder Woman's seems out of place tone wise. But maybe that's just me. Yeah, I agree. The score does pay homage to too many sources. Batman has the '89 theme, Superman has the '78 theme, Wonder Woman has the DCEU theme, and Flash has the CW TV show theme. It's neat, and great fan service, but it's a little jarring. I guess it could have been worse. They could have used: ...actually come to think of it, I don't think in either her title movie OR this one she was called "Wonder Woman" at all. Was she in Batman v Superman?
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