TNA Deathwatch: Die Another Day

[cjb01: Limited Edition Item!]

Oct 14, 2016 20:58:15 GMT -5 Emmet Russell said:

TNA has pulled through a lot of tough situations in the past. I'm struggling to see how they pull through this one.

Mountains of debt. Getting sued left and right. Not paying talent, talent threatening to walk out. Decreasing ratings all across the board.

I think it's finally the end, boys and girls.

And think about it, in their last act to stay alive for just a little longer, to try and get something in, and stay alive again before this wave hit them from every single end and turn them inside out, their one thought, their one thing that gave them the desire to fight on, get money no matter what, and put on this set of tapings before it all blew up in their faces finally, was essentially...

"Man, we just gotta get the belt on Eddie Edwards."

[EoE: Workin On My Night Cheese]

Oct 15, 2016 4:38:16 GMT -5 cjb01: Limited Edition Item! said:

Oct 14, 2016 20:58:15 GMT -5 Emmet Russell said:

TNA has pulled through a lot of tough situations in the past. I'm struggling to see how they pull through this one.

Mountains of debt. Getting sued left and right. Not paying talent, talent threatening to walk out. Decreasing ratings all across the board.

I think it's finally the end, boys and girls.

And think about it, in their last act to stay alive for just a little longer, to try and get something in, and stay alive again before this wave hit them from every single end and turn them inside out, their one thought, their one thing that gave them the desire to fight on, get money no matter what, and put on this set of tapings before it all blew up in their faces finally, was essentially...

"Man, we just gotta get the belt on Eddie Edwards."

And that's nothing against Edwards on his own merits, he's a good talent to have around in the midcard. But there's no way he should have been the guy to beat Lashley after his strong run.

[G✇JI☈A]

Just waiting for the tweet by Dixie:

Big announcement at next set of tapings sugs. Excited for future. #TNA4EVA

[Deleted]

Oct 15, 2016 6:30:25 GMT -5 G✇JI☈A said:

Just waiting for the tweet by Dixie:

Big announcement at next set of tapings sugs. Excited for future. #TNA4EVA

That's not random capitalization by the way, she's sacrificing everyone else in the company to make mechs.

[Mozenrath]

Oct 15, 2016 2:40:33 GMT -5 Joe Neglia said:

Gotta feel for Gaburick, still stuck there with everyone he works for and with knowing he tried to use the library negotiations to flee the sinking ship without them...

Lagana got fired from WWE for being caught supplying Meltzer with information, and even he's got to be looking at Big like a stooge.

[Deleted]

Oct 14, 2016 22:51:09 GMT -5 CH Punk said:

Oct 14, 2016 22:21:02 GMT -5 Mighty Attack Tribble said:

As I understand it that wouldn't prevent WWE from acquiring the tape library, or hinder their right to use it on the Network. IIRC someone independent of WWE has distribution rights to the ECW library even to this day, so this would presumably be a similar situation, unless MMC/Anthem/Fight Network have exclusive streaming rights.

As far as I understand, Kid Diddler Video filmed ECW shows themselves (with permission from ECW), so what they have the rights to sell is just what they did regarding ECW.

Incorrect. They have the right to sell the TV shows as well, due to a non-exclusive rights agreement made with ECW during the 90's. That agreement isn't invalid just because WWE also purchased non-exclusive rights to the footage after that.

[Deleted]

Oct 14, 2016 20:03:35 GMT -5 andrew8798 said:

Something I didn't know about

TNA has already sold some of its tape library to Anthem.

-F4W

So another Memphis situation

Not really. The Memphis thing is much more complicated, with a ton of parties claiming exclusivity. TNA selling non-exclusive rights to some of their footage to Anthem is no different than when ECW released some VHS tapes and DVDs through Pioneer before they folded. Or sold non-exclusive rights to RF Video to sell episodes of the TV show and also film fan cam footage of the shows. WWE still bought the ECW library so they could use the footage in the future. They can do the same here, but the other parties would also still have the ability to use the footage they bought in the past.

[Gus Richlen: Ruffian]

Oct 15, 2016 6:34:15 GMT -5 Lizuka #BLM said:

Oct 15, 2016 6:30:25 GMT -5 G✇JI☈A said:

Just waiting for the tweet by Dixie:

Big announcement at next set of tapings sugs. Excited for future. #TNA4EVA

That's not random capitalization by the way, she's sacrificing everyone else in the company to make mechs.

Gendo Ikari wouldn't even want to deal with TNA.

[Deleted]

Oct 14, 2016 20:14:41 GMT -5 Joe Neglia said:

Oct 14, 2016 17:05:13 GMT -5 bootytea said:

And this is what it comes down to for many people here, wanting to watch others crumble so they feel better about their lives.

The celebrations over TNA's demise shock me. I get there were a lot of questionable practices, but I would much prefer if people showed some concern for everyone who is gonna be affected.

Let's face it, a lot of these guys won't have a lot of options after.

Its good that there will no longer be this sort of mismanagement, but I'm just amazed at how these discussions have no sympy for people that are gonna suffer.

Another pet peeve is this cyber bullying of Kevin Dunn because of one Cornette shoot.

Maybe I'm just overly sensitive.

Okay, no. Just no.

Who all, may I ask, do you see as being "affected"? The wrestlers? Most of them aren't getting paid or paid on time to begin with. The production crew? Same deal. Every single one of them will benefit from being away from a company that may or may not shut down, may or may not pay them, and constantly screws them over time and again.

"A lot f these guys won't have a lot of options" - There isn't a wrestler on the TNA roster right now that wouldn't benefit from being out of their contracts with them. Most of them would have demand on the indy scene AND wouldn't have to hand part of their indy pay over to TNA like they do now.

Exactly. TNA hasn't been a solid place for anyone to hold a job in months. They really would be better off anywhere else, on shows with a paying audience, for companies actually generating some sort of revenue through which to pay the talent.

None of the TNA talent is going to find themselves "out of work." Far from it. They basically have booked the top available guys who weren't otherwise signed elsewhere and put them on a TV show and "sometimes paid them." Now they'll be able to work wherever they want every weekend, and get paid whatever they decide to set their price at. Some will be freed up to potentially enter agreements with WWE/NXT, or ROH, or Lucha Underground, or explore Japan options, or anything else they want to do!

I think it's a big over reaction by anyone worried about the talent's well being anyway, because even if TNA is history, it looks like Corgan is going to form his own new group with essentially the same talent roster once TNA is dead and buried. They'll still be wrestling on shows, except this time, they'll be able to reliably pay their bills.

[Final Countdown Jones]

Just as far as mention of people not getting paid, I'm seeing a lot of people mention that TNA takes "a cut" of the money, and that's not true, so just to clear up how f***ing awful what they're currently doing by not paying people is:

People under the new contracts where TNA takes full control of a guy's booking are supposed to get a regular paycheck every two weeks, rather than being paid based on dates worked. In return, TNA is the booking agent for everyone under these contracts. But in exchange for that, TNA actually takes all of the money for that booking from the promoter directly, and the way it's supposed to work is that people are then paid off of that, but with TNA tacking on a higher rate for people to get booked so that they can pocket some of the money off of their guys too. So, right now it isn't just "guys have to give some of their indy money to TNA", but that TNA gets all of their money and is supposed to be paying them for it.

Which means that TNA isn't just late in paying people for the work they do for TNA, they have full-on seized the entire earnings these people make in the wrestling business period and refuse to pay them for work they have done for other companies. It's a level of despicable way worse tha that people are giving them hell for in this thread, which is bad enough by itself, but I just needed to correct that to stress how deplorable everything this company does is, because as people have expressed in here before, Dixie's paycheck is probably never late, and with no revenue coming in from goddamn anywhere, my guess is that she has guys slumming it on the indies to keep her bank account fat.

[________ has left the building]

What find I'm both funny and sad are the TNA diehards on Twitter trying to claim that this is either a con to work the Net, lies created by Meltzer and the rest of the anti-TNA army because they are secretly WWE fanboys, or recognizing the end is near and trying to come to terms with that.

AKA the thought pattern WCW diehards had during the last few months of existence. All this is deja vu really. Same rumors of WWF wanting to buy WCW. Potential buyers besides WWF entering the picture. Massive money woes. A product that is improving but years of being terrible ruined hopes of regaining back their lost fans. Rats leaving the ship with people jockeying for individual lifeboats. Workers doing interviews calling management out. Legal cases pending. Deals that could save them going belly up. Next is the tv show being suddenly cancelled.

Once that happens, TNA will completed its destiny of being the reborn WCW.

[Shai]

Oct 15, 2016 8:39:08 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

Just as far as mention of people not getting paid, I'm seeing a lot of people mention that TNA takes "a cut" of the money, and that's not true, so just to clear up how f***ing awful what they're currently doing by not paying people is:

People under the new contracts where TNA takes full control of a guy's booking are supposed to get a regular paycheck every two weeks, rather than being paid based on dates worked. In return, TNA is the booking agent for everyone under these contracts. But in exchange for that, TNA actually takes all of the money for that booking from the promoter directly, and the way it's supposed to work is that people are then paid off of that, but with TNA tacking on a higher rate for people to get booked so that they can pocket some of the money off of their guys too. So, right now it isn't just "guys have to give some of their indy money to TNA", but that TNA gets all of their money and is supposed to be paying them for it.

Which means that TNA isn't just late in paying people for the work they do for TNA, they have full-on seized the entire earnings these people make in the wrestling business period and refuse to pay them for work they have done for other companies. It's a level of despicable way worse tha that people are giving them hell for in this thread, which is bad enough by itself, but I just needed to correct that to stress how deplorable everything this company does is, because as people have expressed in here before, Dixie's paycheck is probably never late, and with no revenue coming in from goddamn anywhere, my guess is that she has guys slumming it on the indies to keep her bank account fat.

That is a level of f***ed up that is insanity to me.

[OVO 40 hunched over like he 80]

Oct 14, 2016 22:28:58 GMT -5 Mister Pigwell said:

Man I hope the library isn't Memphis'd. From a fan's perspective I just really want WWE to own it (or at least get streaming rights to it) so I can visit it on the Network.

I just want to see "The fall and fall of TNA" documentary

[cabbageboy]

TNA is screwed at this point and reading all of this has made my head hurt. It's hard to even figure out how or why they would survive this. In the event that Corgan does restart with the same roster and different name (as in a technically different company) it is time to do a WCCW/USWA style re-branding where the corrupt old regime is shown the door so the new guys can take over.

[lionheart21]

Oct 15, 2016 8:39:08 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

Just as far as mention of people not getting paid, I'm seeing a lot of people mention that TNA takes "a cut" of the money, and that's not true, so just to clear up how f***ing awful what they're currently doing by not paying people is:

People under the new contracts where TNA takes full control of a guy's booking are supposed to get a regular paycheck every two weeks, rather than being paid based on dates worked. In return, TNA is the booking agent for everyone under these contracts. But in exchange for that, TNA actually takes all of the money for that booking from the promoter directly, and the way it's supposed to work is that people are then paid off of that, but with TNA tacking on a higher rate for people to get booked so that they can pocket some of the money off of their guys too. So, right now it isn't just "guys have to give some of their indy money to TNA", but that TNA gets all of their money and is supposed to be paying them for it.

Which means that TNA isn't just late in paying people for the work they do for TNA, they have full-on seized the entire earnings these people make in the wrestling business period and refuse to pay them for work they have done for other companies. It's a level of despicable way worse tha that people are giving them hell for in this thread, which is bad enough by itself, but I just needed to correct that to stress how deplorable everything this company does is, because as people have expressed in here before, Dixie's paycheck is probably never late, and with no revenue coming in from goddamn anywhere, my guess is that she has guys slumming it on the indies to keep her bank account fat.

Which again begs the question: who in their right minds would wanna sign onto this company? And how is this legal, if it even is legal?

[Rumble McSkirmish]

Oct 15, 2016 8:18:29 GMT -5 Gus Richlen: Ruffian said:

Oct 15, 2016 6:34:15 GMT -5 Lizuka #BLM said:

That's not random capitalization by the way, she's sacrificing everyone else in the company to make mechs.

Gendo Ikari wouldn't even want to deal with TNA.

"Get away from the f***ing robots, Dixie!"

[Gus Richlen: Ruffian]

Oct 15, 2016 10:40:54 GMT -5 Rumble McSkirmish said:

Oct 15, 2016 8:18:29 GMT -5 Gus Richlen: Ruffian said:

Gendo Ikari wouldn't even want to deal with TNA.

"Get away from the f***ing robots, Dixie!"

"I mustn't run away, I mustn't run away, I mustn't run -"

*Shinji sees the reports on the lawsuit*

"That's it, I'm outta here."

[tigermaskxxxvii]

Oct 14, 2016 22:45:32 GMT -5 Boozeman said:

Corgan got treated like a money mark by wrestling's ultimate money mark. Gotta be embarrassing.

I remember being impressed by Billy Corgan when watching the ECW documentary Barbed Wire City when he tells the story of how Heyman offered him the chance to buy ten percent of the company in exchange for one million dollars and Corgan turned him down because he knew the company as a whole wasn't worth ten million dollars. It was refreshing to see he wasn't suckered by a very charismatic man like Paul Heyman and being a complete money mark at a time when he had a lot of money burning a hole in his back pocket. He easily could have easily cut that check and looked at it as a favor for a friend more than a business investment and if ECW still goes under he can just shrug it off and be like "whatever I got more of it coming in. I have my Smashing Pumpkins money and whatever points I have off of other people's albums for producing or writing songs for them." But then he gets taken in by Dixie? At least he got some equity in the company as a minority owner. But I almost think being ten percent ownership of ECW during the last six months of existence might be better than his current situation.

Oct 14, 2016 23:12:25 GMT -5 Slammy Award-Winning Cannibal said:

Oct 14, 2016 21:55:33 GMT -5 No Longer a Produceman said:

Still, despite all this, somehow, someway, TNA kicks out at 2 7/8.

I think kicking out implies they're a living entity. This a zombie company. It walks among us but it's long dead.

TNA keeps getting hit by their opponent's finisher but keeps landing with its feet in or under the ropes so the fall keeps getting broken up.

Oct 15, 2016 0:45:58 GMT -5 jimmyjames said:

With the revelations about TNA debt and their not paying taxes you seriously have to ask, was TNA essential a scam. Was the money going straight into Dixie's bank account? We know their history of not paying or late paying of employees, but does anyone think Dixie or Serge's paychecks were late? You can bet Serge's royalty checks were in full and on time.

Yeah, but Serge is worth every penny he gets.

[Final Countdown Jones]

Oct 15, 2016 10:24:03 GMT -5 lionheart21 said:

Oct 15, 2016 8:39:08 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

Just as far as mention of people not getting paid, I'm seeing a lot of people mention that TNA takes "a cut" of the money, and that's not true, so just to clear up how f***ing awful what they're currently doing by not paying people is:

People under the new contracts where TNA takes full control of a guy's booking are supposed to get a regular paycheck every two weeks, rather than being paid based on dates worked. In return, TNA is the booking agent for everyone under these contracts. But in exchange for that, TNA actually takes all of the money for that booking from the promoter directly, and the way it's supposed to work is that people are then paid off of that, but with TNA tacking on a higher rate for people to get booked so that they can pocket some of the money off of their guys too. So, right now it isn't just "guys have to give some of their indy money to TNA", but that TNA gets all of their money and is supposed to be paying them for it.

Which means that TNA isn't just late in paying people for the work they do for TNA, they have full-on seized the entire earnings these people make in the wrestling business period and refuse to pay them for work they have done for other companies. It's a level of despicable way worse tha that people are giving them hell for in this thread, which is bad enough by itself, but I just needed to correct that to stress how deplorable everything this company does is, because as people have expressed in here before, Dixie's paycheck is probably never late, and with no revenue coming in from goddamn anywhere, my guess is that she has guys slumming it on the indies to keep her bank account fat.

Which again begs the question: who in their right minds would wanna sign onto this company? And how is this legal, if it even is legal?

In theory, the promise of guaranteed money could be more than guys were otherwise making. If I remember correctly, when the story broke with the Wolves it was reported they were signed to low six figures, and depending on if TNA booked them to actually earn that money, they could have been standing to make more than they were really 'earning'. The downside, of course, being that they had to trust that TNA would actually pay them. But as far as legality goes, I don't think anything runs too afoul on the guarantee that TNA actually fulfilled their obligations, but wrestling contracts are usually built on top of shit that wouldn't hold up in court.

They've generally been very aggressive about signing people to these contracts, and I imagine it was very much an issue of TNA saying "You either do this or we're done here." And I can't imagine why they wouldn't want to push people into those kinds of contracts when they can directly profit off the work of their wrestlers and, to be extra shitty, decide to just flat-out not pay guys for the work they do when they want to spend it elsewhere. Which is why it makes sense that a lot of people would have had enough with pay issues; we always see waves of people deciding the pay problems are too much, and now going for breach of contract on this makes a whole lot of sense if they're the ones who are suddenly out the guaranteed money that TNA mis-allocated and misused.

[Deleted]

I'm sure a lot of people who signed those contracts did so under the impression that 1), TNA would actually pay them (first mistake there), and 2), the same shit that made people stop booking TNA guys last time they tried this would come up again so eventually they'd be getting paid while not actually having to work very often.