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Post by G✇JI☈A on Nov 16, 2016 1:14:04 GMT -5
With the lack of big time competition it must be hard for the wrestlers to tell writers and bookers 'no I won't do that, because my character would not do that'. But it falls on the wrestlers to protect their gimmicks. In other words they need to be braver, sure they end up with DA NUCLEAR HEAT. But it may end up helping them in the long run.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2016 1:26:40 GMT -5
Like most storylines, a few lines of dialogue is all WWE needed to have everything make sense. "The survivors who win their matches get title shots. With the winning brand getting the 30th spot in the Rumble, and the main event of Wrestlemania."
There, now there's a reason for people to fight for their show. You could even add something afterwards for the Champs who survive, like they get to choose the stips for their defenses.
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Dean-o
Grimlock
Haha we're having fun Maggle!
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Post by Dean-o on Nov 16, 2016 1:51:30 GMT -5
You know how certain sports leagues' all-star games have the caveat of home field/court/ice advantage for the winning conference in the championship finals? Maybe something similar in that the winning brand gets to have No. 30 in the Royal Rumble? I've seen the idea floated that the winning brand should get THE main event spot at Wrestlemania, which would be perfect. Everyone involved has some stake in benefiting from it (in their own minds) and it would actually give the split some semblance of competition. That's actually a really great idea.
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Rican
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
July 17, 2011 - HHHe called it
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Post by Rican on Nov 16, 2016 8:52:49 GMT -5
The forced competition aspect of it is the worst part of the brand split. No matter how hard they try it's the same company with people going back and forth between the brands regularly. It's just silly and they don't even bother trying to explain it.
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AdamAFL was sooooo wrong
Hank Scorpio
note to all: he's a pants-less heathen
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Post by AdamAFL was sooooo wrong on Nov 16, 2016 9:03:40 GMT -5
I don't necessarily have a problem with it as it is a situation I see happen quite a lot in real life in terms of people weirdly building up brand loyalty really quickly. I work in retail and people seriously build up a brand loyalty very quickly (hell, even a store loyalty is quickly built-up, some of my colleagues had a party last year because they took more money over Christmas than the closest other store of a similar size - and that's all under one umbrella of one company).
That being said, I love the idea of all of the survivors getting a title shot, the brand with the most wins getting the main event slot at WrestleMania & the final spot in the Rumble. But I'm not totally upset with how WWE have done this because I think it is a natural reflection of life.
Except Bayley taking part in that beatdown. A 6-on-6 scrap sure, but a 6-on-2 beatdown? Nah, some babyfaces would, Bayley wouldn't - should've known the character better.
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thecrusherwi
El Dandy
the Financially Responsible Man
Brawl For All
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Post by thecrusherwi on Nov 16, 2016 9:14:22 GMT -5
This type of booking is why they're hemorrhaging viewers in recent years. These characters don't feel like real people at all. All of the popular characters of the past felt like extreme versions of real people. The modern characters feel like robots that have no principles or consistent motivations. They're just plot devices to move a bad overarching story from Point A to Point B.
And it really sucks in this case because I'm really looking forward to a Survivor Series that's nearly all Survivor Series matches for the first time in years and if it bombs, they'll blame the concept instead of blaming themselves for being the worst character crafters in television.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Nov 16, 2016 11:04:43 GMT -5
With the lack of big time competition it must be hard for the wrestlers to tell writers and bookers 'no I won't do that, because my character would not do that'. But it falls on the wrestlers to protect their gimmicks. In other words they need to be braver, sure they end up with DA NUCLEAR HEAT. But it may end up helping them in the long run. I remember in one of the old Ross Reports Jim Ross stated that he absolutely hated when anyone came up to him with the excuse of my character wouldn't do that.
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 16, 2016 11:05:03 GMT -5
The brand split won't work for most of those reasons.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on Nov 16, 2016 13:00:19 GMT -5
Like most storylines, a few lines of dialogue is all WWE needed to have everything make sense. "The survivors who win their matches get title shots. With the winning brand getting the 30th spot in the Rumble, and the main event of Wrestlemania." There, now there's a reason for people to fight for their show. You could even add something afterwards for the Champs who survive, like they get to choose the stips for their defenses. Even beyond that, there should be some more firm stipulations to give people a reason to fight. It's already been leaked Kevin Owens vs. Roman Reigns happens at Roadblock in December...why not make it go one further. Have Stephanie say..."Roman Reigns gets the shot at Owens at Roadblock...IF HE WINS THIS FOR RAW. He doesn't? Then the match is off and he doesn't get a title shot. Heck, if Owens doesn't win, he'll be lucky if I don't strip him and put the title up for grabs between people who didn't compete for Raw." Same token on the split side- if they're merging the Cruiserweight division that way anyway? Just go all out with it and make there be some question to the match- have Shane and Bryan come right out and say "Win or lose, Kalisto can be in the Cruiserweight division...because if you don't bring the Cruiserweight division to us, you're fired from Smackdown!" Even if they just use the logic that people have already- some of it can make sense if they just use that logic (best example: Bayley being part of the 6-on-2 beatdown is a bad move itself...but then, look at it through BAYLEY'S character: It's been a plot point for a full year now- both on Breaking Ground and in NXT, that Bayley and Carmella are very close friends. The Bayley character is also naive enough so she'd never really turn on one of her friends, even if the friend turned on her (and if the friend turned on her she would attack, but also still want to be friends with them- so there's your reason she would fight Carmella.) Carmella, however, has turned heel and hates Nikki Bella...and presumably told Bayley how rotten Nikki Bella was (and Bayley, being kind of naive, would believe that.) Meanwhile, in kayfabe, because they're on different shows, "Bayley" has never met "Nikki Bella" in her life (and the Smackdown women could tell her that all the Raw women are evil.) It's not likely Bayley would take part in a beatdown- unless it's seen as "She's told by all the people on the Raw team the Smackdown team and Nikki Bella are evil, and Carmella, her best friend on Smackdown would be telling her for a while that Nikki Bella is evil- and if Carmella's also part of the mix, that's the spirit of competition...and Bayley's never really met Nikki Bella herself so she'd know firsthand it was all a lie, so it's entirely likely that she was just given some bad information and she bought it."
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"Magic" Mark Hurr
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Here, have some chili dogs
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Posts: 16,038
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Post by "Magic" Mark Hurr on Nov 16, 2016 18:16:36 GMT -5
How about the winning brand get to purchase the Nintendo Mini for retail price.
That's why Taker came back. Because he couldn't get one. He wants SmackDown to win so he can get one.
That's their motivation for me.
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Post by Zombie Mod on Nov 16, 2016 18:24:06 GMT -5
At least Smackdown got more motivation that if they lose, Taker's gonna kill them. but raw has sin cara waiting backstage to pick a fight with everyone who loses/breathes for raw.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Nov 16, 2016 19:14:13 GMT -5
With the lack of big time competition it must be hard for the wrestlers to tell writers and bookers 'no I won't do that, because my character would not do that'. But it falls on the wrestlers to protect their gimmicks. In other words they need to be braver, sure they end up with DA NUCLEAR HEAT. But it may end up helping them in the long run. I remember in one of the old Ross Reports Jim Ross stated that he absolutely hated when anyone came up to him with the excuse of my character wouldn't do that. Which is probably one of many reasons very few characters have gotten over in the past few years. The set characters they have don't have much motivation to do much except wait for some kind of higher being to move them to the next place on the chess board. Sasha Banks' character is exactly the same as Seth Rollins right now, practically. The only person who stands out right now is someone who has been given the chance to flex more creative control with what they have been given with Chris Jericho and that says A LOT. I've said this for a while now, it does not take much to put minor lines into dialogue and actions in matches that'll link one storyline or one segment with another that'll keep up with what they want to say. As everyone has said, it takes Stephanie a few seconds to say 'I spoke to Shane and we agreed that the winner would get a draft pick of their choosing/the No 30 pick for the Royal Rumble' to add some intrigue to a storyline. Why does everything have to be done in the ring when you have days and days of nothing going on TV wise when the GMs could have spoken about these things? It's not like they can't do it. Look at Goldberg/Lesnar. Goldberg's entire promo a few weeks ago was 'Hey, when I was promoting the video game, I thought about having another match. I thought against it, until Brock Lesnar said I was a nobody so now I want to kick his ass'. That makes sense and can be seen in several different ways. Lesnar having never beat Goldberg, Goldberg wanting to make his son proud, Heyman seeing a good investment in the rematch, Stephanie having an advantage brand wise by getting this match to happen for Survivor Series (a point that REALLY should be brought up by her a lot more). It isn't even like they've gone into wide amounts of detail or recited it in Shakespearian terms, it's all in the dialogue and the actions. It's pro wrestling 101. On the latter point, this should be something that makes a BIG impact on the brand split but it's barely been mentioned outside of shows on the WWE Network. Not that I'm an expert on this speculation stuff but ratings are probably down because everything has stayed the same and the things that are different are eventually bogged down into that system. Why stay up until 8pm on a Monday to hope that they can give a direction to Bayley that makes sense to what makes fans invested in her in the first place when Steven Universe, a show at a much earlier time and attracts a younger audience, can keep its continuity straight? Sure, they're two different show but it says a lot if someone can make you a list of what makes Steven different from the rest of the Crystal Gems and it'd be longer than the differences between every member of Raw's womens division.
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Post by Ishmeal Loves Kaseyhausen on Nov 16, 2016 19:16:56 GMT -5
Cash money to the survivors. Make it a pool. Its wrestling so it can be any figure. $1,000,000 gets split between the winners. The less survivors, the higher the take is. Then you get opened up to interference, heels sabotaging their own teammates to have less survivors, etc.
But I'm sure Vince would think that's too complicated for us peons to understand.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Nov 16, 2016 19:49:05 GMT -5
Cash money to the survivors. Make it a pool. Its wrestling so it can be any figure. $1,000,000 gets split between the winners. The less survivors, the higher the take is. Then you get opened up to interference, heels sabotaging their own teammates to have less survivors, etc. But I'm sure Vince would think that's too complicated for us peons to understand. Right. That's what it boils down to. Vince and the people that he listens to are of the mentality that "viewers are morons, so keep it super simple".
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 16, 2016 20:40:45 GMT -5
With the lack of big time competition it must be hard for the wrestlers to tell writers and bookers 'no I won't do that, because my character would not do that'. But it falls on the wrestlers to protect their gimmicks. In other words they need to be braver, sure they end up with DA NUCLEAR HEAT. But it may end up helping them in the long run. I remember in one of the old Ross Reports Jim Ross stated that he absolutely hated when anyone came up to him with the excuse of my character wouldn't do that. There are certainly cases where actions would be out of character, or outright damaging to a character. I imagine good ole' JR never suggested any stupid shit to the Undertaker and then whined if he turned it down.
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spagett
Hank Scorpio
Great Job!
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Post by spagett on Nov 16, 2016 21:03:53 GMT -5
I remember in one of the old Ross Reports Jim Ross stated that he absolutely hated when anyone came up to him with the excuse of my character wouldn't do that. There are certainly cases where actions would be out of character, or outright damaging to a character. I imagine good ole' JR never suggested any stupid shit to the Undertaker and then whined if he turned it down. Exactly. His good friend Stone Cold never seemed averse to refusing to do certain things. Even The Rock, who by all accounts played the least amount of politics by a megastar main eventer ever, still looked out for himself and tried to protect the character. This stupid Team Raw vs Team Smackdown stuff didn't work the last time they did this brand split and it's not working now. It's ridiculous .
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Lardlad
El Dandy
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Posts: 8,254
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Post by Lardlad on Nov 17, 2016 11:16:12 GMT -5
vince.mcmahon@e.wwe.com
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 17, 2016 12:28:44 GMT -5
Rather than a brand split, WWE should emphasise division splits.
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