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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 2, 2016 6:08:45 GMT -5
As many of you may know, SHIMMER is the long-running all-women promotion out of Illinois that has been around for just over a decade now, giving a metric crapload of women wrestlers from all over the world an outlet to do the business in the ring during a time when it was not a priority whatsoever of mainstream wrestling. But now, it could be all over. This from the Facebook of co-founder Dave Prazak (tried to embed the post itself but it's not there now unfortunately, hence the question mark in the title)... It'd be a shame to see it go, but it's influence on today's mainstream women's wrestling output can not be overstated enough. So many of the names that had gotten some of their first major exposure in SHIMMER are and have been fixtures of women's wrestling for years... Bayley, Becky Lynch, Asuka, Natalya, Emma, Paige, Ember Moon, Rosemary, among others. Hopefully they can find a way to keep on going.
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Post by Ted Sheckler on Dec 2, 2016 7:54:21 GMT -5
It's a shame but wrestling by itself is niche and women's wrestling is even more niche. Unfortunately this makes sense.
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Talent Name
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Post by Talent Name on Dec 2, 2016 8:52:25 GMT -5
Does that mean SHINE is done as well
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Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 2, 2016 8:53:41 GMT -5
So Shimmer is running into the problems PWG ran into in the mid 2000's. Figure it would happen eventually with their business model. PWG was bleeding money due to dvd sells drying up, building rentals, and fly in talents were eating up the budget. So in order to survive; PWG stopped flying almost all of the expensive talent. Used local talent to fill out the cards. Cut down on the amount of shows. Made Reseda their new home base. And hooked up with Highspots to do their dvds. It was a rough couple of years for them but eventually due to the major buzz their shows were getting which lead to increased dvds and ticket sells going up and that lead to the company making a turnaround. Not saying that should go the PWG route but they need to change up their current business model.
It used to be if you wanted quality women wrestling, Shimmer was your destination. But times has changed. Yeah, Shimmer is still an important place where women wrestlers try to be for buzz with fans and industry people. But other places have sprung for them to perform their craft. And those places stream their shows on top of selling dvds. Which gets them to consumers much quicker than Shimmer who takes months before shows are available.
I do see Shimmer eventually hooking up with one of the streaming services like FloSlam and doing live or semi-live shows. DVD sells aren't enough to survive on anymore. Those fly ins and name talent aren't getting any cheaper. Their niche is no longer theirs to rule. So either they adapt or become a historically important but defuct promotion like ECW.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 2, 2016 8:55:45 GMT -5
Does that mean SHINE is done as well Shine is owned and ran by different people. Plus they are part of WWN who is connected with FloSlam.
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Spider2024
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Post by Spider2024 on Dec 2, 2016 10:31:33 GMT -5
If they actually released the DVDs in a timely manner, then maybe folks would buy them.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Dec 2, 2016 11:08:43 GMT -5
It sucks, but the biggest problem with being a niche product that ends up having a major effect on the bigger players in your field is that eventually you're not special anymore, and you need to either find some new way to differentiate yourself, or drastically change your business model. The fact said model is rooted in DVD sales is just more reason to worry, because it means they're real slow on the take anyway. If their only plan ends up being "scale down and hope we make it work" then they're not going to be seeing much in the near future, because DVD sales will keep dwindling and they'll be back in the same place again real soon.
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Reflecto
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Post by Reflecto on Dec 2, 2016 15:39:56 GMT -5
Even beyond all of those, there's also the same point that...SHIMMER just isn't special anymore.
When SHIMMER started out, it was basically the ONLY promotion that focused on serious women's wrestling, and the only promotion that built around aggregating the top female indy standouts from around the country, making it a female ROH and an instant player in the sport.
Now, on the other hand- there's dozens of good women's indy promotions out there, and most of those promotions book basically the same roster as SHIMMER does (at least domestically). TNA picked up on the top SHIMMER talent first, and eventually WWE started scouting from the women's indy scene and found the best of the best there...so now, the top independent women actually stand a chance at getting WWE's attention enough to have a chance at a good career.
The only thing SHIMMER had over the other women's indy promotions was that they regularly brought more women's wrestlers in from Japan, Europe, and Australia..and even THEN it's no longer a big benefit for them, since WWE scouts all of those countries very well and brings in the best women from their indy scenes to boot.
When the only possible reason for SHIMMER to exist in the current wrestling climate is "So that the women have a promotion that'd instantly give them street cred so they can be pushed to the moon when NXT inevitably signs them", that's not exactly a big thing.
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Dec 2, 2016 15:51:36 GMT -5
I'm honestly surprised they lasted as long as they have. They haven't been a unique product for a number of years now. It's hard to keep your dedicated fans and keep them spending money when there are so many free alternatives out there.
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Post by percymania on Dec 2, 2016 17:34:18 GMT -5
That's unfortunate news. I feel partly guilty because they've followed me on Twitter for a long time, even though I've never really done anything to support them. I certainly appreciate what they've done for women's wrestling, and I was always hoping I could check out a show of theirs in person someday.
If they do go under there will be a silver lining if their tape library is sold to the WWE Network. So there is that possibility, I guess.
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Chainsaw
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Post by Chainsaw on Dec 2, 2016 18:51:15 GMT -5
Hopefully, they can survive and keep going. It's good that there's a place to feature women's wrestling, but it's a hard sell in this day and age (even though it shouldn't be).
I seriously get more and more furious thinking that a good company like Shimmer might close, but TNA gets chance after chance...
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 2, 2016 20:50:29 GMT -5
At least he's honest about the situation, unlike so many, many others in wrestling. He's not just cutting talents payoffs without warning or not paying them at all and pretending everything is fine, or there's some mythical deal with Disney over in Hollywood right around the corner if they'll keep on working for free. I hope he finds a way to keep it all going, wrestling needs more places where talent can go to get their name out there and hone their craft without being ripped off ot otherwise mistreated.
It's sad, people said for the longest time that womens wrestling can't draw, when Shimmer proved it was sustainable but became a victim of that success, with the WWE and others taking the sport more seriously their alternative is no longer an alternative and less of a draw than it was because the WWE are giving away good women's wrestling matches for free, with even more available for $9.99 a month.
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Reflecto
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Post by Reflecto on Dec 3, 2016 1:34:02 GMT -5
It's sad, people said for the longest time that womens wrestling can't draw, when Shimmer proved it was sustainable but became a victim of that success, with the WWE and others taking the sport more seriously their alternative is no longer an alternative and less of a draw than it was because the WWE are giving away good women's wrestling matches for free, with even more available for $9.99 a month. But on the other side, it's also not particularly sad for the same reasons. If Shimmer does risk closing, then you can equally make the case among dying/deceased promotions, SHIMMER is one of the few wrestling promotions that truly succeeded. From the moment Shimmer started, the goal was simple: Do for indy women's wrestling what ROH did for men's indy wrestling- aggregate the best of the indy scene and make great dream matches- more necessary since there were no real opportunities for women's indy stars at the time (WWE was in the throes of the Diva Search era starting up to destroy the wrestling, and TNA/ROH didn't even bother booking women outside of a couple places, usually as managers.) By this time, even if they end- there's a number of exclusive women's indy promotions all around the world. TNA, ROH, and WWE have all changed away from the era of models to the era of serious women's wrestling, each having a firm women's division and signing the best talents from the independent circuit as a major part of that work. WWE has had a PPV main evented by the women's match, and CHIKARA and Lucha Underground have both seen a woman hold their World Title. Meanwhile, WWE is on the verge of adding a women's tournament (and if 205 Live has started, almost certainly will follow with a weekly women's wrestling show after the tournament). If this is the end- don't cry for SHIMMER dying as a loss...they WON, and won harder than almost any other indy promotion you can name could have.
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Post by Steveweiser on Dec 3, 2016 3:14:40 GMT -5
Yep, it's the backlog of DVDs (their most recent DVD, Volume 73, is 20 months old), not recognising when it was time to make the jump over to MP4s and streaming, plus WWE taking key components and making it work, plus other alternatives in different regions, plus building rent being more expensive and fly-ins being more expensive - it's all taken its toll.
My main worry is the Australian and NZ scene - WWE knows the European and Japanese scene well (the latter proof with their interest in Threedom, who were never in SHIMMER), yet outside of Melbourne City Wrestling, the Aussie scene isn't seen as much worldwide. Billie Kay was signed because of being a proven commodity in SHIMMER, as was Emma. Peyton Royce had the Lance Storm connection. Evie is likely to be signed off her SHIMMER run. Any women from that scene in the future are going to have to bust a gut with their connections and word of mouth to be noticed going forward.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 3, 2016 3:35:24 GMT -5
Yep, it's the backlog of DVDs (their most recent DVD, Volume 73, is 20 months old), not recognising when it was time to make the jump over to MP4s and streaming, plus WWE taking key components and making it work, plus other alternatives in different regions, plus building rent being more expensive and fly-ins being more expensive - it's all taken its toll. My main worry is the Australian and NZ scene - WWE knows the European and Japanese scene well (the latter proof with their interest in Threedom, who were never in SHIMMER), yet outside of Melbourne City Wrestling, the Aussie scene isn't seen as much worldwide. Billie Kay was signed because of being a proven commodity in SHIMMER, as was Emma. Peyton Royce had the Lance Storm connection. Evie is likely to be signed off her SHIMMER run. Any women from that scene in the future are going to have to bust a gut with their connections and word of mouth to be noticed going forward. I think some of them might be OK going through the Japanese scene you mentioned. Toni Storm, for example. She's having a hell of a run there as of late. Kellie Skater gets a lot of bookings there too. Shazza McKenzie's been used as enhancement talent in the past for NXT, so she's at least on their radar. Might be too much wear and tear on Madison Eagles for her to get a look, unfortunately. But like you said, it's a lot of the rising talents that may struggle to break out internationally if SHIMMER goes down.
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Reflecto
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Post by Reflecto on Dec 3, 2016 3:45:50 GMT -5
Yep, it's the backlog of DVDs (their most recent DVD, Volume 73, is 20 months old), not recognising when it was time to make the jump over to MP4s and streaming, plus WWE taking key components and making it work, plus other alternatives in different regions, plus building rent being more expensive and fly-ins being more expensive - it's all taken its toll. My main worry is the Australian and NZ scene - WWE knows the European and Japanese scene well (the latter proof with their interest in Threedom, who were never in SHIMMER), yet outside of Melbourne City Wrestling, the Aussie scene isn't seen as much worldwide. Billie Kay was signed because of being a proven commodity in SHIMMER, as was Emma. Peyton Royce had the Lance Storm connection. Evie is likely to be signed off her SHIMMER run. Any women from that scene in the future are going to have to bust a gut with their connections and word of mouth to be noticed going forward. I think some of them might be OK going through the Japanese scene you mentioned. Toni Storm, for example. She's having a hell of a run there as of late. Kellie Skater gets a lot of bookings there too. Shazza McKenzie's been used as enhancement talent in the past for NXT, so she's at least on their radar. Might be too much wear and tear on Madison Eagles for her to get a look, unfortunately. But like you said, it's a lot of the rising talents that may struggle to break out internationally if SHIMMER goes down. But that also does tie to the similar point there- the more talent WWE signed out of Australia, the more that it becomes clear that WWE is scouting Australia well enough. Just getting three big names locked up- even if Royce/Emma came from the Lance Storm connection, does make it easier for WWE to see "Wow, Australia is a blue-chip territory for top female talents who are complete packages", and thus ramp up the scouting further and further- and in the process, the previous signees usually have a good bead on who the top talents to look out for would be themselves. The more talent signs from an area, the more they'll get scouted.
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Post by Crusty Ruffles on Dec 4, 2016 1:20:19 GMT -5
While the news isn't great, I don't get how they're "facing closure" while talking about running their shows next year.
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Post by Error on Dec 4, 2016 1:28:19 GMT -5
While the news isn't great, I don't get how they're "facing closure" while talking about running their shows next year. Remember ECW and WCW had shows scheduled in 2001 but if the funds aren't there, the shows won't be either.
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Post by lockedontarget on Dec 4, 2016 2:28:32 GMT -5
I would give them plenty of money if I could actually follow the promotion without being a year behind.
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Post by Woo on Dec 4, 2016 3:23:33 GMT -5
I own every single DVD they have produced and it's very frustrating waiting well over a year for the next few. Shimmer was the only reason I stayed a fan in 2009 and 2010 as I gave up on TNA the minute they became Hoganized and gave up on WWE way before that. Thankfully Lucha Underground has since come out too but if Shimmer closes and LU eventually gets cancelled I will have nothing left aside from the occasional Joshi match online.
Shimmer still features the best womens wrestling out of any promotion. It's the only company where you will see the best female wrestler from the USA go up against the best wrestler from Australia, Japan, Canada New Zealand or Europe. It's truly special.
Yes the WWE have possibly the best female wrestler in Asuka, an incredible worker who needs to work on her character a bit in Ember and an incredible character actress who's great ring work isn't quite as good as her promo skills in Nikki Storm along with superb women like Becky (who's not as great as she was in Shimmer), Billie Kay (nowhere near as good as she was in Shimmer), Bayley (improved a lot since Shimmer) and Sasha Banks, but all the women they hire still more or less fit into the WWE mould of being an attractive girl. For years we were saying that if they want to hire women who are attractive just hire some of the ones on the indie scene, but what about the ones who don't fit the WWE's look?
Mercedes Martinez is and has been one of the top 5 American females of the last decade. She's a phenomenal in-ring wrestler who's an even better promo. Madison Eagles is still the best all-round female wrestler on the planet. Neither fit the WWE mould so they likely wouldn't get hired. You could argue that Kharma wasn't either, but she's such a special attraction that she doesn't count.
Womens wrestling in the USA is the best it's been in forever, but losing Shimmer would still be a huge loss for so many women workers.
If it does go however let's look back at the incredible women who have competed in Shimmer as it really is a who's who of female talent of the last ten years.
Beth Phoenix Nattie Neidhart Asuka Becky Lynch Bayley Ember Moon Awesome Kong/Kharma Sara Del Rey (WWE trainer) Sarita/Sarah Stock (NXT trainer) Rosemary/Courtey Rush Mia Yimm/Jade Ayako Hamada Taylor Wilde Daffney Roxxi/Nikki Roxx Aja Kong Mayumi Ozaki Dynamite Kansai Madison Eagles MsChif Mercedes Martinez Portia Perez Nicole Matthews Daizee Haze Wesna Busic Saraya Knight Britani Knight/Paige Lacey Rain Jetta Serena Deeb Kimber Lee Cheerleader Melissa/Alysha Flash/Mariposa Allison Danger Ivelise Nikki Storm Ayumi Kurihara Tomoka Nakagawa Hiroyo Matsumoto Veda Scott Evie Jessie McKay/Billie Kay Leva Bates/Blue Pants Lufisto Hailey Hatred Kalamity Tsukasa Fujimoto AKINO
And so may more. It's been an incredible promotion and possibly the most consistently great as not on single DVD has not had at least two fantastic matches.
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