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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Dec 4, 2016 18:38:46 GMT -5
Let's not forget that some people thought Carrie Fisher was/is too fat to play Princess Leia, Strong Female Protagonist. Back in the 70s and even in the 21st century. So yeah, garbage compactor in, garbage compactor out.
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,296
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Post by Fade on Dec 4, 2016 18:41:56 GMT -5
You're saying Hollywood hasn't learned its lesson for decades, I'm assuming in terms of women and minorities, but than how's it work Leias standing up to even her own rescuers and being independent in the 70s and Rey comes off as more shallow in 2015? And there's nothing to feel uncomfortable in this thread, no ones said anything wrong or broken any rules, your logic just doesn't seem to make sense. MY logic doesn't make sense? I'm not the one arguing that Star Wars is trying to push a harmful "feminist agenda " in their recent films. That's what I find uncomfortable. I never said harmful. And they are. Whether they're going about it in a productive or counter productive way is debatable but to believe that they aren't doing that, seems ignorant. It seemed especially obvious (And successful) with Rey in SW. There were tons of commercials where it was centered around a girl as opposed to a boy and that was unheard of with even the Prequels. How is Lucasfilm and Dianey pushing a feminist agenda make you feel uncomfortable?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2016 18:42:21 GMT -5
Ah and the idea that Casablanca was homogenized:
They were mostly white dudes, but the white dudes playing them were:
American Austrian English German Austrian-Hungarian German-Jewish Russian-Jewish Bulgarian
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,296
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Post by Fade on Dec 4, 2016 18:43:18 GMT -5
Ah and the idea that Casablanca was homogenized: They were mostly white dudes, but the white dudes playing them were: American Austrian English German Austrian-Hungarian German-Jewish Russian-Jewish Bulgarian Well I'll be damned. Diversity. My mistake.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 4, 2016 18:48:42 GMT -5
MY logic doesn't make sense? I'm not the one arguing that Star Wars is trying to push a harmful "feminist agenda " in their recent films. That's what I find uncomfortable. I never said harmful. And they are. Whether they're going about it in a productive or counter productive way is debatable but to believe that they aren't doing that, seems ignorant. It seemed especially obvious (And successful) with Rey in SW. There were tons of commercials where it was centered around a girl as opposed to a boy and that was unheard of with even the Prequels. How is Lucasfilm and Dianey pushing a feminist agenda make you feel uncomfortable? Actually, that's what I'm asking you. I don't know if you'd picked it up from what I've been saying in this thread, but I am a diehard feminist, so if Disney and Lucasfilm want to push feminist agendas in their films then I want them to keep it up. I just don't think they've gone particularly overboard with it. So I guess I do think they've gone about it in a productive way, honestly, and they could probably do more in that department.
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Dec 4, 2016 18:52:02 GMT -5
My main issue is that Rey is a bit too competent, Luke was still a hot-headed f***-up for his first two films which helps his relatability. And of course Kylo Ren is a little weiner bitch-boy who doesn't really have credibility after TFA.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 4, 2016 18:53:14 GMT -5
My main issue is that Rey is a bit too competent, Luke was still a hot-headed f***-up for his first two films which helps his relatability. And of course Kylo Ren is a little weiner bitch-boy who doesn't really have credibility after TFA. Well in TFA he was shot by the Bowcaster before his fight with Finn and then Rey. AKA the weapon that was causing everyone else to basically explode, dude not only didn't die but continued to try fighting with that massive hole in his side.
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Dec 4, 2016 18:58:22 GMT -5
My main issue is that Rey is a bit too competent, Luke was still a hot-headed f***-up for his first two films which helps his relatability. And of course Kylo Ren is a little weiner bitch-boy who doesn't really have credibility after TFA. Well in TFA he was shot by the Bowcaster before his fight with Finn and then Rey. AKA the weapon that was causing everyone else to basically explode. I was talking more about him being all "no f*** you father-figure" which makes him very hard to take seriously.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 4, 2016 18:59:06 GMT -5
My main issue is that Rey is a bit too competent, Luke was still a hot-headed f***-up for his first two films which helps his relatability. And of course Kylo Ren is a little weiner bitch-boy who doesn't really have credibility after TFA. Thing is, Kylo Ren is basically a hot-headed f***-up. He's pretty much what most would expect Luke to be if he'd given over to the Dark Side in ESB. He has the power, but neither the control nor the maturity to wield it.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 4, 2016 19:03:39 GMT -5
Yeah, the whole idea of Ren is that he's not really good at this whole "be an evil Force wielding badass" thing yet.
Hell, go back to Episode IV, and notice that while Vader did throw some mooks around he was basically relegated to being Tarkin's attack dog.
I'll take note, though, that having female protagonists now equate with "feminist agendas" and not just, y'know, having female protagonists. Learn something new everyday.
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Magician under the moonlight
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Always Beaten To The Punchline. Always.
A magician and a thief. That's Badass
Posts: 15,727
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Post by Magician under the moonlight on Dec 4, 2016 19:12:27 GMT -5
My main issue is that Rey is a bit too competent, Luke was still a hot-headed f***-up for his first two films which helps his relatability. And of course Kylo Ren is a little weiner bitch-boy who doesn't really have credibility after TFA. Well in TFA he was shot by the Bowcaster before his fight with Finn and then Rey. AKA the weapon that was causing everyone else to basically explode, dude not only didn't die but continued to try fighting with that massive hole in his side. You know, they should have went with the Demon King Piccolo and Goku approach where piccolo in his weakened state (old man) managed to squash Goku before whishing for his youth. Then later in their more powerful state (Young Piccolo and Goku after drinking the water) they fight again to a more even match. If Kylo Ren in that weakened state managed to easily beat Rey, it would have made him look more threatening and the rematch with him and Rey, after both are completely trained would have been more exciting, but I guessed it would not have worked by today's standards.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 4, 2016 19:12:52 GMT -5
I'll take note, though, that having female protagonists now equate with "feminist agendas" and not just, y'know, having female protagonists. People who complain about Force Awakens' "feminist agenda" truly baffle me. Literally nothing about Rey's gender plays any relevant (nor, for that matter, irrelevant) part of her story arc. You could recast Rey as male and the only difference to the movie would be Finn having a crush on a guy instead.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 4, 2016 19:13:35 GMT -5
The term "diversity " isn't always inherently a corporation buzzword, it's a truly postitive thing that does real good. There's nothing pandering about how Rey was presented or being marketed. She was treated as heroically as a male character would have been regardless of her gender, and it was refreshing. And if someone finds the concept of an inclusive band of heroes fighting a villainous force that more or less represents the concept of white supremacy to somehow be bothersome, then the real problem is with that specific person, not the filmmakers. If that's somehow an "agenda", then I'm all for it. What happened with Ghostbusters was an outlier, exasperated by the studio essentially feeding the sentiments of the trolls that actually did have a problem with the female leads. Seriously, I can't believe people actually have a problem with this. There's a lot of posts in this thread I find very uncomfortable. Yea I don't get this at all, I agree with you. Ghostbusters and Rey is night and day. Just because a woman is put in a lead position does not mean nor should it mean they are "forcing" an agenda upon you. Truth be told going into the movie without reading on the movie, based upon the commercials I thought Finn was the main lead and was surprised and happy about the direction of the movie and how they represented Rey. Not everything has a back door agenda. I can't believe what goes on in people's head sometimes
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2016 19:14:19 GMT -5
Bad Mary Sue female leads are not a result of a feminist movement but from bad writing. There's a lot of gripes I have with The Force Awakens and a underdeveloped and over powered Rey isn't even on the top of my list.
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,296
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Post by Fade on Dec 4, 2016 19:14:35 GMT -5
I never said harmful. And they are. Whether they're going about it in a productive or counter productive way is debatable but to believe that they aren't doing that, seems ignorant. It seemed especially obvious (And successful) with Rey in SW. There were tons of commercials where it was centered around a girl as opposed to a boy and that was unheard of with even the Prequels. How is Lucasfilm and Dianey pushing a feminist agenda make you feel uncomfortable? Actually, that's what I'm asking you. I don't know if you'd picked it up from what I've been saying in this thread, but I am a diehard feminist, so if Disney and Lucasfilm want to push feminist agendas in their films then I want them to keep it up. I just don't think they've gone particularly overboard with it. So I guess I do think they've gone about it in a productive way, honestly, and they could probably do more in that department. K. Well, I never said it was harmful or that it made me "uncomfortable".
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2016 19:16:20 GMT -5
One of my first thoughts when I saw it was "The Death Star didn't work twice, what was makingbit bigger supposed to accomplish?" More fear and more terror. The First Order are Imperial fanatics. Like Neo-Nazis, they lack that pre-established backbone of government & armed forces (which the original Nazis took advantage of in Germany) to create their empire. It was created out of the ashes of the Empire, formed out of the Republic, and by the worst of the worst of the Empire. The Empire fed on the loyalty of those in the military and governments to advance their own beliefs and poison people into thinking it was good. The First Order are the descendants of those poisoned minds, who see things much differently. No one in the First Order cared about the logistics of yet another Death Star, I'll bet, and if/how it could be destroyed. They just saw a way to make a bigger Death Star so it would horrify more people and kill more of them.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Dec 4, 2016 19:16:28 GMT -5
Well let's say Disney does have a feminist agenda...so what? I have the ability to ignore them and their product if I so choose. I am not compelled or forced to watch their product or give them money if I don't want to. It's their company, they can do with it what they will.
We can chase our tails arguing about diversity, but it's pointless because there's no consensus on what constitutes diversity. So the question becomes diversity...by what standard? And that can't be answered.
Sure, we can include one of every possible gender and ethnicity, but then have we reduced people to nothing more than their gender and ethnicity?
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 4, 2016 19:20:53 GMT -5
You could literally swap Finn and Rey gender and it be the same movie. I do not see where this feminist shit came from.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Dec 4, 2016 19:22:32 GMT -5
I'll take note, though, that having female protagonists now equate with "feminist agendas" and not just, y'know, having female protagonists. People who complain about Force Awakens' "feminist agenda" truly baffle me. Literally nothing about Rey's gender plays any relevant (nor, for that matter, irrelevant) part of her story arc. You could recast Rey as male and the only difference to the movie would be Finn having a crush on a guy instead. Given the movie I saw, I think Finn already has a crush on a guy (or has a crush on a guy too).
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Dec 4, 2016 19:26:47 GMT -5
People who complain about Force Awakens' "feminist agenda" truly baffle me. Literally nothing about Rey's gender plays any relevant (nor, for that matter, irrelevant) part of her story arc. You could recast Rey as male and the only difference to the movie would be Finn having a crush on a guy instead. Given the movie I saw, I think Finn already has a crush on a guy (or has a crush on a guy too). Finn's heart already belongs to...LT Hawk from Star Trek First Contact!
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