|
Post by James Fabiano on Dec 8, 2016 14:20:47 GMT -5
I think I timed it once, Bruce Wayne doesn't have a line in Batman Returns until like 40 minutes in. Does this count Batman too? Cause I think he says "We'll see" to Gordon early on.
|
|
|
Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Dec 8, 2016 14:25:08 GMT -5
I think I timed it once, Bruce Wayne doesn't have a line in Batman Returns until like 40 minutes in. Does this count Batman too? Cause I think he says "We'll see" to Gordon early on. No, Bruce as Batman does have a couple lines but unmasked Bruce Wayne I think only appears silently looking at the Bat Signal and then finally speaks as a person super late in the movie.
|
|
|
Post by Hit Girl on Dec 8, 2016 16:43:54 GMT -5
Bruce didn't need to talk. What did he need to say? He was getting shit done as Batman. No messing around. He de-stilted those stilt guys. He metal thinged those bikers. Then he torched firebreather with the Batmobile exhaust, before crushing a guy's spine with a chunk of building. Then he silently looked upon the meek and pitiful Selina Kyle with contempt.
No words necessary.
|
|
|
Post by BorneAgain on Dec 8, 2016 17:03:26 GMT -5
Bruce not talking as himself made sense to me as a lot of the film is about how whatever existed of his civilian identity is slowly being consumed by his role as Batman.
That scene of him just waiting for the signal to come on tells you everything about what his mental state has become and why there's an attraction with Kyle: because Selina is also losing herself to being Catwoman. Both of them have created and fallen into identities out of a desire to never be victims again; its just that Bruce still sees value in order while Selina's completely given in to the freedom of her nine lives, so to speak.
|
|
|
Post by Hit Girl on Dec 8, 2016 17:23:13 GMT -5
Michael Keaton was outstanding at conveying character without saying a word.
I absolutely love the scene where he's patrolling the streets in the Batmobile and quietly observes Penguin doing his research. The look of suspicion in Batman's eyes is just sublime.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 8, 2016 18:33:54 GMT -5
I like it a lot, but Returns is only a good Batman movie if you don't care at all about Batman.
And man, there is NO discernible, coherent plot.
It's a lot of fun, but boy is it stupid.
|
|
|
Post by Mr PONYMANIA Mr Jenzie on Dec 8, 2016 19:44:39 GMT -5
uh what ..... am i thinking about a DIFFERENT BATMAN RETURNS MOVIE here??? loved it loved it LOVED IT it HAD a plot catwoman "ate" pussy and it was a very mature story and max schreck was a massive dick it still had more of a stagy feel than the brilliant first episode cobblepot though was actually sympathetic in his motivations, not like daddy and the power plant baloney, a thing that BRUCE WAYNE called him out in WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY before 40 minutes in! i think someone needs to rewatch it .... but it could have been worse .....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2016 20:35:20 GMT -5
As much as Iron Man 3 is... so sure.
|
|
Shai
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,507
|
Post by Shai on Dec 8, 2016 20:40:24 GMT -5
It's the best Batman movie. Seconded. Always has been the best one in my opinion and yes that's including the Nolan trilogy.
|
|
|
Post by Milkman Norm on Dec 8, 2016 21:36:45 GMT -5
It's the best Batman movie. Seconded. Always has been the best one in my opinion and yes that's including the Nolan trilogy. Agreed. My order goes 1. Batman Returns 2. Batman Begins 3. Batman 4. Batman Forever 5. Batman and Robin 6. The Dark Knight 7. The Dark Knight Returns And yes I would rather watch crap that is firmly tongue in cheek than pretentious crap. Heath Ledger is one of the least deserving Oscar winners ever. I'm very sorry he died. I'm sorry he OD before he could have hit has massive potential as actor. But his Joker was so over rated.
|
|
Shai
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,507
|
Post by Shai on Dec 8, 2016 21:41:04 GMT -5
Seconded. Always has been the best one in my opinion and yes that's including the Nolan trilogy. Agreed. My order goes 1. Batman Returns 2. Batman Begins 3. Batman 4. Batman Forever 5. Batman and Robin 6. The Dark Knight 7. The Dark Knight Returns And yes I would rather watch crap that is firmly tongue in than pretentious crap. Heath Ledger is one of the least deserving Oscar winners ever. I'm very sorry he died. I'm sorry he OD before he could have hit has massive potential as actor. But his Joker was so over rated. Wish I could like this more then once...I HATED Ledger's Joker. I'm sad he died but I liked him WAY more in A Knight's Tale and The Patriot then his hipster Joker.
|
|
|
Post by Limity (BLM) on Dec 8, 2016 21:46:35 GMT -5
Bruce not talking as himself made sense to me as a lot of the film is about how whatever existed of his civilian identity is slowly being consumed by his role as Batman. That scene of him just waiting for the signal to come on tells you everything about what his mental state has become and why there's an attraction with Kyle: because Selina is also losing herself to being Catwoman. Both of them have created and fallen into identities out of a desire to never be victims again; its just that Bruce still sees value in order while Selina's completely given in to the freedom of her nine lives, so to speak. Awesome take on BR. I wish this was more of a focus, and more prevalent throughout the film.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 8, 2016 21:57:02 GMT -5
Ledger was both amazing as Joker and overrated. Yeah, him becoming the end all be all to people was too much, but dude put in an awesome performance.
And no, Returns did not have a plot that made sense. It had a buncha threads that didn't tie togeteher at all. It was a mess; an entertaining mess, but an absolute mess.
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 8, 2016 23:28:21 GMT -5
honestly, Batman Returns is probably my least favorite Batman movie.
From a technical stand point it is better than And Robin obviously... but I do have a ton of fun ripping on that movie.
That said I wasn't much of a fan of Rises either, and I found a lot of Begins really boring.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2016 7:58:44 GMT -5
I love Batman Returns. The movie is completely plotless, is barely about Batman, and has a ton of things that make no sense, but it's a blast. I don't like it as much as the 89 movie but I would probably rather watch it than the Nolan movies, though I love those.
|
|
|
Post by Alexander The So-so on Dec 9, 2016 8:05:13 GMT -5
As I've always said: the '89 Batman film is a Batman film that happens to have been directed by Tim Burton. Batman Returns is a Tim Burton film that happens to have Batman in it.
And I love it for that. It's an unorthodox and eccentric movie, but truly different and unique. And in its own way, the characters all work and are resonant. Watching this film is one of my Christmas traditions.
|
|
|
Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 9, 2016 8:24:20 GMT -5
Personally I felt that Burton's version of Gotham didn't feel like a city at all, it felt very much like a City set than an actual living city. Both of Burton's Batman movies were hurt by the fact that they only had about half a city block built on stage, and no amount of clever camera setups can disguise that. The Monarch Theatre appearing in the background of almost every city scene in the first movie is the best example of this. Returns at least didn't have such a distinct landmark. However, Burton's is one of my favourite designs for Gotham, though I must admit I like the neon-lit Schumacher version a little more.
|
|
|
Post by Hit Girl on Dec 9, 2016 8:33:02 GMT -5
Batman Returns had a coherent plot.
The Penguin wanted revenge for being abandoned as a baby. He planned to murder the children of the wealthy class that his parents were a part of. To accomplish it, he was willing to allow Max Shreck to use him as a mayoral candidate, because Shreck himself needed a pliable mayor who would sign off on his power plant, which would actually drain power from Gotham City, a plan uncovered by Selina Kyle who was then almost murdered by Shreck, thus spurring her own revenge plot against him. Then you have Batman in the middle of it all, not only trying to stop the bad guys, but conflicted with his own relationship with Selina Kyle.
It makes sense to me. All the villains have clear motives, and the hero must stop them.
What I don't like about the Nolan movies is that they are overplotted. Too often the villain's plans take into account even random actions that they could not have possibly predicted. I'm also not a big fan of pseudo-intellectual motives for villains. I like substance. I can accept revenge more than some nebulous desire to "make Gotham see it's own dark heart" or something like that.
But that's just personal preference.
|
|
|
Post by James Fabiano on Dec 9, 2016 8:39:08 GMT -5
Ledger was both amazing as Joker and overrated. Yeah, him becoming the end all be all to people was too much, but dude put in an awesome performance. And no, Returns did not have a plot that made sense. It had a buncha threads that didn't tie togeteher at all. It was a mess; an entertaining mess, but an absolute mess. Ledger's was what it was, but best Joker in a world where Mark Hamill's version exists? Nahhhhhhh....
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 9, 2016 8:50:44 GMT -5
no argument there.
|
|