|
Post by Ted Sheckler on Dec 29, 2016 7:52:00 GMT -5
What I find interesting is that a lot of people are claiming they hated the match and just stopped watching WCW afterwards but WCW sold 1 million dollars in tickets to a rematch between the two at a House Show in January 1998 and did phenomenal business for all of 1998. I'm not sure everyone saying "I never watched WCW again" is being entirely honest.
Anyway, my thoughts on the match is it was a poor match with an overbooked and messy finish. If I were booking it I'd have had Sting hit Hogan with the Deathdrop, lock him in the Deathlock and have Hogan tap in the middle of the ring. I'm sure this is the finish Eric Bischoff wanted as well but when dealing with Hogan he probably had to change things around.
To me though Hollywood Hogan Vs Sting and Bret Hart appearing just before the main event to challenge Ric Flair and make his first official appearance in WCW is enough to sell the PPV. You don't need the messy finish but once again, I wasn't in the room pitching ideas to Hogan and having him say "Sorry brother. Stinger isn't in shape."
|
|
Shark
Hank Scorpio
The world's only Samurai Ninja Pirate
Posts: 7,045
|
Post by Shark on Dec 29, 2016 19:50:54 GMT -5
Back when the WWE Network first came out and I was going through the WCW ppvs and got to this show, I decided to count how many offensive moves Sting got in and it was a very small number. Punches and kicks were about it. It was actually remarkable how little offense Sting had in this match. It was a brief flurry and then all selling while Hogan dominated. The match was 13 minutes, which is not that long, but when it's so one sided it feels like forever. Easily the biggest blown opportunity for WCW.
|
|
|
Post by MC Blowfish on Dec 30, 2016 10:48:00 GMT -5
So awful. Eric or whoever went with that Montreal Screw job finish wasn't needed. Sting needed to look strong and go over Hogan cleanly. Instead we got that cluster.
|
|
|
Post by KofiMania on Dec 30, 2016 16:30:58 GMT -5
What makes me laugh is that the same finish was pulled in WM14 with tyson making the pin instead of a referee. But somehow that was amazing while this was a a stupid idea from start to finish Couple of differences: 1- There was no false finish/fast count mess where HBK pinned Austin first. 2- Tyson was heavily involved in the build to the match and was the ringside enforcer, unlike Bret.
|
|
|
Post by cabbageboy on Dec 30, 2016 18:24:49 GMT -5
I did not watch this PPV at the time, but I heard about it from a friend of mine the next day. I thought it sounded incredibly idiotic. Keep in mind he was a huge Hogan fan and was outraged that Hogan had basically been cheated out of the title. Truth be told I went back and watched most of the Nitros leading up to that show and the entire Sting angle in 1997 is one of the most overrated things ever to draw money. There wasn't an actual build to the match. Not really. It was "Sting sulks in the rafters, everyone in WCW gets killed, Sting finally just demands title match with Hogan despite doing nothing to warrant it." Personally I found the Hogan/Luger angle far better since Luger was at least, you know, WRESTLING and taking beatings from the NWO and coming back for more. I recall the segments where JJ Dillon called Sting out and handed him contracts for matches with Hennig, Syxx, etc. Sting refused. If I'm Dillon there's no way I'd give this joker a title shot if he's turning down matches against credible opponents after not wrestling for a year! Ironically Sting was rusty as hell at Starrcade so he kinda needed those warm up matches against some veteran guys, haha.
I don't even know what I expected out of the main event. I guess that Sting would win, but that entire tedious angle had me running back to Raw a long time before. When I heard what happened I thought it sounded dumb and that they were overthinking things trying to include Bret/Montreal. It wasn't the beginning of the end of WCW, but it was the chance WCW had to really put the nail in the WWF's coffin and they totally did not do it. Truth be told I don't even think a clean Sting win would have harmed the WWF, since they still had Austin winning the Rumble and going to WM, and Tyson all in their back pocket. WCW still did all the goofy 1998 booking with the Wolfpac vs. Black and White, blowing Hogan/Goldberg on free TV, the entire Warrior debacle, Bischoff doing the Tonight Show, and other atrocities. The same friend that told me about Starrcade later posited "Jim Hellwig killed WCW." I don't think he was being literal, but it really did seem like that Warrior crap from Aug. to Oct. 1998 really sent WCW's show quality down the tubes and they never really recovered from it.
Starrcade 97 is a fascinating show. It's like watching Rome at the height of its decadence. Even guys like Eddie and Malenko had a bad night. As for me, my first WCW PPV was actually Fall Brawl 98, which is one to make one yearn for the brilliance of that Starrcade.
|
|
|
Post by sfvega on Dec 30, 2016 20:51:33 GMT -5
What makes me laugh is that the same finish was pulled in WM14 with tyson making the pin instead of a referee. But somehow that was amazing while this was a a stupid idea from start to finish Couple of differences: 1- There was no false finish/fast count mess where HBK pinned Austin first. 2- Tyson was heavily involved in the build to the match and was the ringside enforcer, unlike Bret. And Austin had just come off a Rumble where he looked very strong, among many other matches. Sting hadn't had a match in forever. He had this long layoff, this huge build, and then his contributions offensively in that match made him look.....kinda like shit. That he needed Bret to save him because he got his ass kicked and literally pinned before that happened.
|
|
J. Hova
Don Corleone
Emotionally exhausted and morally bankrupt
Posts: 1,993
Member is Online
|
Post by J. Hova on Jan 1, 2017 5:41:46 GMT -5
After 15 months of build up or whatever it was, I just looked it as a kind of a jumping the shark type of moment. After that it was all downhill for WCW. Between that, the fingerpoke of doom, Russo coming in, and all of the bullshit coming with that, it was pretty much the death nail in WCW's coffin.
It was really a sad state of affairs looking back on it. If I am not mistaken, 1997 was WCW's best year financially and it went from being the WWF's competitor to in what, 18 months being a punchline to everything wrestling related???
|
|
|
Post by Big Bad Kahuna on Jan 1, 2017 9:01:04 GMT -5
After 15 months of build up or whatever it was, I just looked it as a kind of a jumping the shark type of moment. After that it was all downhill for WCW. Between that, the fingerpoke of doom, Russo coming in, and all of the bullshit coming with that, it was pretty much the death nail in WCW's coffin. It was really a sad state of affairs looking back on it. If I am not mistaken, 1997 was WCW's best year financially and it went from being the WWF's competitor to in what, 18 months being a punchline to everything wrestling related??? Nah they made more doe in 98, but all the mistakes in late 97 and all of 98 took a toll and had a big effect on business plummeting in mid-99 For all the good thinga Bischoff did in 93-97 to make WCW the bonafide nr.1 wrestling company in the world, he made way too many big mistakes afterwards. Starrcade 97 was a peak point (then another one when Goldberg won the WCW title), but almost everything at that show went wrong, and Bischoff has to be held accountable for that, Hogan having creative control or not
|
|
Renslayer
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
every time i come around your city...
Posts: 16,579
|
Post by Renslayer on Jan 1, 2017 12:04:19 GMT -5
I'm still amazed this match didn't have any nWo interference. Hogan's been running scared all year and now that Judgment Day has arrived, he doesn't have any backup? It would've fit perfectly with the story being told & made Bret's involvement in the match make sense too.
|
|
|
Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Jan 1, 2017 14:53:05 GMT -5
Worst match ever for several reasons.
|
|
|
Post by cabbageboy on Jan 1, 2017 18:23:23 GMT -5
If there was ever a time for a massive overbooked bunch of insanity this would have been it. This badly needed to be a smoke and mirrors no DQ street fight with a million NWO guys running in, all the WCW guys in the crowd intervening, and finally Sting gets Hogan alone and destroys him. How hard is this to book?
|
|
King Devitt
Grimlock
It gets better the longer you stare at it
Posts: 13,752
|
Post by King Devitt on Jan 1, 2017 22:27:49 GMT -5
Now that I'm older and understand how awful Hogan was/is I imagine the talk backstage went something like this:
Bischoff: We want Sting to have a grand entrance Hogan: No, he should just walk down to the ring like normal brother. Bischoff: Well, I at least want you to do the job for Sting clean. Hogan: No way, dude. Bischoff: Can we make it a fast count? Hogan: As long as it's a normal count jack. Bischoff: How about before that Sting just annihilates you and- Hogan: No way brother, I'm going to dominate most of the match dude, and make Sting look bad. He hasn't wrestled in over a year so we can use that as the excuse jack. Bischoff: Okay, can we at least have the NWO do the usual run in? Hogan: I don't think so dude, of all the times that it would make sense, this surely isn't one of them. I need to look strong in going over Sting. Bischoff: But Sting HAS to get the title. Hogan: Bring out Nick Patrick to do a regular count, and then have Bret Hart come out and tell them to restart the match because of a fast count- Bischoff: Which will be a regular count? Hogan: Exactly brother, and that way Sting looks stupid, Bret looks stupid immediately upon coming to WCW, and I look like the badass even though Sting "wins". Bischoff: But- Hogan: And since I'm doing the job here, I'm going to get the belt back almost immediately, and the NWO will continue to run wild brother jack dude!
*Hogan swims backwards out of the meeting*
|
|
|
Post by Big Bad Kahuna on Jan 8, 2017 5:56:42 GMT -5
Now that I'm older and understand how awful Hogan was/is I imagine the talk backstage went something like this: Bischoff: We want Sting to have a grand entrance Hogan: No, he should just walk down to the ring like normal brother. Bischoff: Well, I at least want you to do the job for Sting clean. Hogan: No way, dude. Bischoff: Can we make it a fast count? Hogan: As long as it's a normal count jack. Bischoff: How about before that Sting just annihilates you and- Hogan: No way brother, I'm going to dominate most of the match dude, and make Sting look bad. He hasn't wrestled in over a year so we can use that as the excuse jack. Bischoff: Okay, can we at least have the NWO do the usual run in? Hogan: I don't think so dude, of all the times that it would make sense, this surely isn't one of them. I need to look strong in going over Sting. Bischoff: But Sting HAS to get the title. Hogan: Bring out Nick Patrick to do a regular count, and then have Bret Hart come out and tell them to restart the match because of a fast count- Bischoff: Which will be a regular count? Hogan: Exactly brother, and that way Sting looks stupid, Bret looks stupid immediately upon coming to WCW, and I look like the badass even though Sting "wins". Bischoff: But- Hogan: And since I'm doing the job here, I'm going to get the belt back almost immediately, and the NWO will continue to run wild brother jack dude! *Hogan swims backwards out of the meeting* I remember people praising Hogan for his more selfless approach in 97-98, trying to get others over for once. Boy were those wrong
|
|
|
Post by sfvega on Jan 8, 2017 8:53:40 GMT -5
Now that I'm older and understand how awful Hogan was/is I imagine the talk backstage went something like this: Bischoff: We want Sting to have a grand entrance Hogan: No, he should just walk down to the ring like normal brother. Bischoff: Well, I at least want you to do the job for Sting clean. Hogan: No way, dude. Bischoff: Can we make it a fast count? Hogan: As long as it's a normal count jack. Bischoff: How about before that Sting just annihilates you and- Hogan: No way brother, I'm going to dominate most of the match dude, and make Sting look bad. He hasn't wrestled in over a year so we can use that as the excuse jack. Bischoff: Okay, can we at least have the NWO do the usual run in? Hogan: I don't think so dude, of all the times that it would make sense, this surely isn't one of them. I need to look strong in going over Sting. Bischoff: But Sting HAS to get the title. Hogan: Bring out Nick Patrick to do a regular count, and then have Bret Hart come out and tell them to restart the match because of a fast count- Bischoff: Which will be a regular count? Hogan: Exactly brother, and that way Sting looks stupid, Bret looks stupid immediately upon coming to WCW, and I look like the badass even though Sting "wins". Bischoff: But- Hogan: And since I'm doing the job here, I'm going to get the belt back almost immediately, and the NWO will continue to run wild brother jack dude! *Hogan swims backwards out of the meeting* The entrance still kills me. It's not just that he didn't have a good one (he should have had a GREAT one.) It's that his character had evolved past being a distant, mysterious, quasi-sullen fellow in the shadows to an engaged, energetic....fellow in the shadows. So of course he comes out stoic looking like his mom just dropped him off at the bus stop 2 minutes ago. It made no sense.
|
|