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Post by xCompackx on Dec 28, 2016 11:07:51 GMT -5
We've seen many instances in promos where a heel will do things like making fun of someone who's had a heart attack on live TV, driving a deceased wrestler's car into the entrance stage, setting it on fire, and then saying that person is in Hell, and ripping the head off a bear that is dressed like the deceased father of the person the bear was given to.
With that said, my question is: is it ever actually effective? Sure, we could argue whether it's a shitty thing to do since most of these guys who do it are being fed lines by Creative or Vince, but has there been a time where a heel said/did something like this and made a lasting impression aside from "Why the hell did they do that?".
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MolotovMocktail
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Dec 28, 2016 11:42:50 GMT -5
From what I've heard, this was pretty common in the territory days.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 28, 2016 11:46:48 GMT -5
Heels using real life death for heel heat existed long before Vince. Ox Baker had 2 opponents die in real life after wrestling him and that was used to augmentent his wrestling character. It was very effective in getting him massive heel heat especially when he did his heart punch finisher.
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Post by N E O G E O B O Y S on Dec 28, 2016 12:54:22 GMT -5
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Post by MrElijah on Dec 28, 2016 13:09:00 GMT -5
Not death but Gary Hart said he wished he let Austin Idol drown after their plane crashed. He also said Dusty's dad was found drunk, dead in a ditch at 42.
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Post by James Fabiano on Dec 28, 2016 15:22:43 GMT -5
Not sure if he's playing heel and the promo may have been just coincidental/read into too much/poor choice of words, but the LU Rey Mysterio promo referenced on this board where he talks about Chavo and "putting down old dogs." Keep in mind that the wrestler killed in action against Rey was Perro ("Dog" in Spanish) Aguayo Jr.
I'm pretty sure a lot of Dallas heels had a go at the various deceased Von Erichs.
Justin Credible wishing Tommy Dreamer died instead of his grandfather?
Not aimed at a wrestler, but Joel Gertner going on a diatribe about JFK Jr?
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pegasuswarrior
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Post by pegasuswarrior on Dec 28, 2016 16:34:00 GMT -5
It's something that makes wrestling wrestling. When people say stuff like "that's carny, that's carny" and "we're passed that," it brings to mind all the people that say stuff like, "how can we change baseball to appeal to this demographic and that demographic?" and they make all these proposals that fundamentally change what works way too much.
Generally speaking (not at all saying a decline in deaths used as heat is the sole reason) wrestling's latest boom period expanded the audience in a big way, but we are in that generation that is slowly but surely alienating the wrestling "lifers," and there are more flocking away from the product than they're bringing in as a result. In a way, wrestling got too "smart" for its own good. The media outreach is going as strong as ever, but the product is the product when it's all said and done, and it's become a victim of way too many PC taboos that--when active--made it click with its original base audience.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Dec 28, 2016 17:12:07 GMT -5
It's shitty and awful, and has no place in the industry/business/culture today, nor has it especially since the end of kayfabe in '93.
It's never been necessary, a weak crutch, and does far more harm than help.
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MolotovMocktail
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Dec 28, 2016 17:19:19 GMT -5
Not sure if he's playing heel and the promo may have been just coincidental/read into too much/poor choice of words, but the LU Rey Mysterio promo referenced on this board where he talks about Chavo and "putting down old dogs." Keep in mind that the wrestler killed in action against Rey was Perro ("Dog" in Spanish) Aguayo Jr. I'm pretty sure a lot of Dallas heels had a go at the various deceased Von Erichs. Justin Credible wishing Tommy Dreamer died instead of his grandfather? Not aimed at a wrestler, but Joel Gertner going on a diatribe about JFK Jr? It wasn't just the Von Erich boys in World Class. They intimated that Geno Hernandez was killed by a hitman hired by another wrestler. |
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Post by James Fabiano on Dec 28, 2016 18:18:36 GMT -5
He's not dead, but Steve Corino implying that Dusty cut Magnum's brakes might have cut a bit close, no pun intended.
Over in TNA, of course we had the Roddy Piper-Vince Russo confrontation involving Owen Hart's death. And Kurt Angle and Jeff Jarrett, where Kurt reminds Jeff that he wasn't the only one to lose a wife that year.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Dec 28, 2016 18:25:11 GMT -5
For me it's just a case of if that's how far you have to go to get your fictional character heel heat, you're just not good at your job.
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Post by James Fabiano on Dec 28, 2016 18:45:46 GMT -5
Not sure if he's playing heel and the promo may have been just coincidental/read into too much/poor choice of words, but the LU Rey Mysterio promo referenced on this board where he talks about Chavo and "putting down old dogs." Keep in mind that the wrestler killed in action against Rey was Perro ("Dog" in Spanish) Aguayo Jr. I'm pretty sure a lot of Dallas heels had a go at the various deceased Von Erichs. Justin Credible wishing Tommy Dreamer died instead of his grandfather? Not aimed at a wrestler, but Joel Gertner going on a diatribe about JFK Jr? It wasn't just the Von Erich boys in World Class. They intimated that Geno Hernandez was killed by a hitman hired by another wrestler. Really? Now I remember the spot where they put his death on equal footing with Chris Adams' kayfabe injury. But what was this about? I now recall on GWF TV Black Bart said someone was not going to off and die like those Von Erichs. |
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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Dec 28, 2016 20:18:51 GMT -5
Especially when Graham would kill himself in a similar fashion. |
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魔界5号
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Post by 魔界5号 on Dec 28, 2016 20:24:00 GMT -5
No, it's not effective at getting heel heat. 99% of the time it just gets people mad at the writers and does nothing to further a heel character. Especially in this day and age.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Dec 28, 2016 22:07:11 GMT -5
Especially when Graham would kill himself in a similar fashion. As did Mike's son prior to Mike. This sort of heel tactic has gone around the horn more often than we think. The late Sam Bass' name and personal effects got involved numerous times in Jerry Lawler angles, with Lawler defending his deceased manager's honor. Tojo Yamamoto used to do in-ring promos apologizing for the bombing of Pearl Harbor before turning on the crowd with "We should have bombed (insert podunk Tennessee town) instead!" At least two different angles (one in Puerto Rico and one in Japan) based on Brody's murder. Ox Baker wasn't the only wrestler who enhanced their career/character with an opponent's in-ring death; trying to remember but there was another guy around his time who was doing the same thing. |
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segaz
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Post by segaz on Dec 29, 2016 7:00:53 GMT -5
Especially when Graham would kill himself in a similar fashion. As did Mike's son prior to Mike. This sort of heel tactic has gone around the horn more often than we think. The late Sam Bass' name and personal effects got involved numerous times in Jerry Lawler angles, with Lawler defending his deceased manager's honor. Tojo Yamamoto used to do in-ring promos apologizing for the bombing of Pearl Harbor before turning on the crowd with "We should have bombed (insert podunk Tennessee town) instead!" At least two different angles (one in Puerto Rico and one in Japan) based on Brody's murder. Ox Baker wasn't the only wrestler who enhanced their career/character with an opponent's in-ring death; trying to remember but there was another guy around his time who was doing the same thing. Hmm, and your opinion on Edge And Christian doing a promo in ring about JFK's death saying if he'd stayed five more minutes he would have died anyway? |
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Post by Ted Sheckler on Dec 29, 2016 8:12:25 GMT -5
If I were running a wrestling company on the independent level and one of my current stars died I honestly think I'd have a heel go out there and make fun of it only to have a face cut him off and build to a match down the line.
Is it disrespectful? Probably. Depends on what the heel says. Can you just have a heel who is meant to be this absolute bastard who respects nobody casually stand out on the stage with the faces doing a ten bell salute? Of course not.
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Urethra Franklin
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Post by Urethra Franklin on Dec 29, 2016 8:21:51 GMT -5
It's just so crass and unnecessary.
I completely understand that it's a very easy way to draw cheap heat, but if that's the best you can come up with to do so, perhaps you're not trying very hard or you're just not a very good writer or booker.
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Rave
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Post by Rave on Dec 29, 2016 8:25:08 GMT -5
The absolute cheapest of heats.
Even worse when it doesn't work. Years back when TNA was touring Canada, Kid Kash resorted to this to try to get the crowd on Garett Bischoff's side, referencing Owen Hart and saying that he wanted to injure more members of the Hart family besides. The crowd still booed the hell out of ol' Carrot.
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 29, 2016 9:13:17 GMT -5
In general, I am not terribly fond of bringing affairs outside of the ring inside, and death is included in that. At least in Ox Baker's case, it had relevance to his character, but if someone's mocking Animal over Hawk being dead, etc, they can target something else and get heat if they don't suck at their job.
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