DjZonk
Don Corleone
Where's my cat?
Posts: 1,325
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Post by DjZonk on Dec 29, 2016 9:18:40 GMT -5
No, it's not effective at getting heel heat. 99% of the time it just gets people mad at the writers and does nothing to further a heel character. Especially in this day and age. Very true, but I think a lot can be said of all aspects of wrestling now. Good and bad.
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Post by N E O G E O B O Y S on Dec 29, 2016 10:03:52 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k70v4ghG8AActually, I never minded the "eddie is down there, IN HELL" promo since Rey entire run was based on "doing it for eddie" so everything was already far beyond the point of good taste for me to care about it. I have more troubles when wrestlers mention the death of other workers out of the blue edit: DO NOT EMBED WWE OWNED MATERIAL FROM AN UNOFFICIAL SOURCE - Platypus
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Post by James Fabiano on Dec 29, 2016 11:43:10 GMT -5
Not a wrestling angle (and to me that's even more pathetic), but apparently Kevin Matthews would follow several wrestlers' deaths by saying he wished it was Bill DeMott instead. (He was part of that scandal....ironic for many reasons)
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Post by Joe Neglia on Dec 29, 2016 13:35:29 GMT -5
As did Mike's son prior to Mike. This sort of heel tactic has gone around the horn more often than we think. The late Sam Bass' name and personal effects got involved numerous times in Jerry Lawler angles, with Lawler defending his deceased manager's honor. Tojo Yamamoto used to do in-ring promos apologizing for the bombing of Pearl Harbor before turning on the crowd with "We should have bombed (insert podunk Tennessee town) instead!" At least two different angles (one in Puerto Rico and one in Japan) based on Brody's murder. Ox Baker wasn't the only wrestler who enhanced their career/character with an opponent's in-ring death; trying to remember but there was another guy around his time who was doing the same thing. Hmm, and your opinion on Edge And Christian doing a promo in ring about JFK's death saying if he'd stayed five more minutes he would have died anyway? I gave no opinion on any of these, was just offering examples of the topic.
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Post by wildojinx on Dec 30, 2016 14:27:55 GMT -5
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lws
ALF
No. It's the children who are wrong.
Posts: 1,032
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Post by lws on Dec 30, 2016 20:06:49 GMT -5
JR said Savio Vega would wind up looking like Tupac Shakur after a match with Faarooq, two days after Tupac was shot.
Jerry Lawler mocked Shari Lewis, John Denver, Darren Robinson, Tiny Tim, and probably others, always on the first episode of Raw to air after they died. He made fun of John Denver for being a bad pilot (and thought he was Bob Denver), said Darren Robinson looked like Aja Kong (and exclusively called him "the Fat Boy," which isn't entirely inaccurate, but still made it feel like he barely knew what he was talking about), and replayed his Tiny Tim interview while laughing hysterically and talking about how he's dead now.
I bring these up because as far as I'm concerned, all of them are significantly worse than a wrestler talking about a dead wrestler. As an audience member, I never really like it, but knowing wrestling as well as I do, I bet half the people who were used in angles after they died were fine with it. Maybe more. These unrelated celebrities, however, most certainly wouldn't have wanted random sports commentators, wrestling or otherwise, to make fun of them for dying.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 20:14:29 GMT -5
Especially when Graham would kill himself in a similar fashion. As did Mike's son prior to Mike. This sort of heel tactic has gone around the horn more often than we think. The late Sam Bass' name and personal effects got involved numerous times in Jerry Lawler angles, with Lawler defending his deceased manager's honor. Tojo Yamamoto used to do in-ring promos apologizing for the bombing of Pearl Harbor before turning on the crowd with "We should have bombed (insert podunk Tennessee town) instead!" At least two different angles (one in Puerto Rico and one in Japan) based on Brody's murder. Ox Baker wasn't the only wrestler who enhanced their career/character with an opponent's in-ring death; trying to remember but there was another guy around his time who was doing the same thing. Fred Blassie mentioned in his book the many Japanese people who had heart attacks and died watching his wars with Rikidozan. (Killer Khan brought up how - at the time - people didn't know the proper distance from the TV.) He said, "If they're too old and frail, don't let them watch me on TV." Fred felt bad about those deaths in real life, but on TV he gloat ed about it.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 30, 2016 20:39:13 GMT -5
When Terry Funk called Lawler a pervert and a baby banger it made me believe that their hatred was real.
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Post by SHAKEMASTER TV9 is Don Knotts on Dec 30, 2016 20:55:50 GMT -5
I don't like death being used to get heat, despite or perhaps because of how crass and tasteless it was, I can always laugh at Big Show's feud with Big Bossman.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Dec 30, 2016 21:30:52 GMT -5
As did Mike's son prior to Mike. This sort of heel tactic has gone around the horn more often than we think. The late Sam Bass' name and personal effects got involved numerous times in Jerry Lawler angles, with Lawler defending his deceased manager's honor. Tojo Yamamoto used to do in-ring promos apologizing for the bombing of Pearl Harbor before turning on the crowd with "We should have bombed (insert podunk Tennessee town) instead!" At least two different angles (one in Puerto Rico and one in Japan) based on Brody's murder. Ox Baker wasn't the only wrestler who enhanced their career/character with an opponent's in-ring death; trying to remember but there was another guy around his time who was doing the same thing. Fred Blassie mentioned in his book the many Japanese people who had heart attacks and died watching his wars with Rikidozan. (Killer Khan brought up how - at the time - people didn't know the proper distance from the TV.) He said, "If they're too old and frail, don't let them watch me on TV." Fred felt bad about those deaths in real life, but on TV he gloat ed about it. Blassie also gave an interview in Japan later in life in which he reminisced about his matches with Rikidozan and said, "Well, maybe we'll have a rematch in hell someday." The interviewer, shocked, said, "Surely you think Rikidozan went to heaven." Blassie stared at the guy for a couple seconds and replied, "I KNEW Rikidozan. He's in hell."
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 22:31:59 GMT -5
Fred Blassie mentioned in his book the many Japanese people who had heart attacks and died watching his wars with Rikidozan. (Killer Khan brought up how - at the time - people didn't know the proper distance from the TV.) He said, "If they're too old and frail, don't let them watch me on TV." Fred felt bad about those deaths in real life, but on TV he gloat ed about it. Blassie also gave an interview in Japan later in life in which he reminisced about his matches with Rikidozan and said, "Well, maybe we'll have a rematch in hell someday." The interviewer, shocked, said, "Surely you think Rikidozan went to heaven." Blassie stared at the guy for a couple seconds and replied, "I KNEW Rikidozan. He's in hell." "And he's a pencil-necked geek!"
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 30, 2016 23:13:21 GMT -5
I really don't mind it if it's done right and everyone involved is cool with it.
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pegasuswarrior
El Dandy
Three Time FAN Idol Champion
@PulpPictionary
Posts: 8,748
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Post by pegasuswarrior on Dec 31, 2016 1:32:02 GMT -5
Fred Blassie mentioned in his book the many Japanese people who had heart attacks and died watching his wars with Rikidozan. (Killer Khan brought up how - at the time - people didn't know the proper distance from the TV.) He said, "If they're too old and frail, don't let them watch me on TV." Fred felt bad about those deaths in real life, but on TV he gloat ed about it. Blassie also gave an interview in Japan later in life in which he reminisced about his matches with Rikidozan and said, "Well, maybe we'll have a rematch in hell someday." The interviewer, shocked, said, "Surely you think Rikidozan went to heaven." Blassie stared at the guy for a couple seconds and replied, "I KNEW Rikidozan. He's in hell." That's not cheap. That's clever. That's why I don't get the "cheap heel heat" claim. It comes at a high price to go there, so it's not cheap to me. It's not expected, which also makes it opposite of cheap. Not liking to hear it means it gets the intended effect, and stuff like that above just works. People are entitled to their hatred of it, but the above is an example of how it really works when done correctly.
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Renslayer
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
every time i come around your city...
Posts: 16,580
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Post by Renslayer on Dec 31, 2016 1:52:31 GMT -5
Might not perfectly fit the topic, but Matt Stryker's "swimming with sting rays" comment a few days after Steve Irwin was cheap and didn't accomplish anything.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Dec 31, 2016 5:25:41 GMT -5
Blassie also gave an interview in Japan later in life in which he reminisced about his matches with Rikidozan and said, "Well, maybe we'll have a rematch in hell someday." The interviewer, shocked, said, "Surely you think Rikidozan went to heaven." Blassie stared at the guy for a couple seconds and replied, "I KNEW Rikidozan. He's in hell." That's not cheap. That's clever. That's why I don't get the "cheap heel heat" claim. It comes at a high price to go there, so it's not cheap to me. It's not expected, which also makes it opposite of cheap. Not liking to hear it means it gets the intended effect, and stuff like that above just works. People are entitled to their hatred of it, but the above is an example of how it really works when done correctly. I don't have a negative view of the above, I had to laugh when I read it. It was different from most examples in that this wasn't a promo on the show. Blassie was long retired, even as a manager, and being interviewed by a journalist.
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Post by Larryhausen on Dec 31, 2016 13:56:28 GMT -5
I have no problem with it, as long as the affected parties have no issue. That's why I laughed at the outrage over Lawler's mom's death being used for heat. Knowing Jerry, he probably came up with half the stuff.
And I was in the crowd when Credible said that stuff about Dreamer's grandfather. I don't think I've ever wanted a heel to get the shit kicked out of him more than I did that night.
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lionheart21
Patti Mayonnaise
Once did a thing...
Posts: 30,543
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Post by lionheart21 on Jan 2, 2017 13:27:18 GMT -5
It is the cheapest of cheap heat. If you can't get over as a heel without having to resort to tactics like that, you need to work on your heeling.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 2, 2017 18:19:10 GMT -5
I don't like death being used to get heat, despite or perhaps because of how crass and tasteless it was, I can always laugh at Big Show's feud with Big Bossman. But Show's father had been dead for years at that point. None of it was actually about a real person at all.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jan 2, 2017 18:22:35 GMT -5
I don't like death being used to get heat, despite or perhaps because of how crass and tasteless it was, I can always laugh at Big Show's feud with Big Bossman. But Show's father had been dead for years at that point. None of it was actually about a real person at all. Oh Andre was real ;-) But seriously, I remember the Son of Andre deal in WCW with Giant/Show raising quite a few hackles back in the day. I'm thinking, seeing Lawler's past jokes and comments, that we didn't have to worry at all about Punk making fun of his heart attack...clearly he is one of the "all part of the business" people. Didn't Lawler and his opponents invoke Andy Kaufman's name frequently post-death in the Memphis area?
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jan 3, 2017 0:40:30 GMT -5
Didn't Lawler and his opponents invoke Andy Kaufman's name frequently post-death in the Memphis area? Lawler certainly did, and not in a kind manner. But Jerry was a babyface while doing it.
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