Been rewatching Legend of Korra

[dav]

Not seen the show, but did they ever deal with the fact that you've had the Fire Kingdom on the cusp of ruling the world only for Zuko to go "Nope, not gonna do that." A civil war scenario between loyalists and people who think he's basically stabbing them in the back would have been a good follow up scenario.

[HMARK Center]

Feb 7, 2017 3:28:39 GMT -5 dav said:

Not seen the show, but did they ever deal with the fact that you've had the Fire Kingdom on the cusp of ruling the world only for Zuko to go "Nope, not gonna do that." A civil war scenario between loyalists and people who think he's basically stabbing them in the back would have been a good follow up scenario.

Korra is set far enough in the future that it's basically taken as "if that happened, it happened back then".

They do cover some of that ground in the current comics based on A: TLA, though.

[Malcolm]

Feb 6, 2017 6:41:51 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

Man, now Kuvira is getting called a Mary Sue? What does that term even mean anymore?

The term people are looking for is "Villain Sue".

[HMARK Center]

Feb 7, 2017 13:10:51 GMT -5 Malcolm said:

Feb 6, 2017 6:41:51 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

Man, now Kuvira is getting called a Mary Sue? What does that term even mean anymore?

The term people are looking for is "Villain Sue".

Even then, sheesh, people really looking for something to complain about. Main reason she was able to best Korra at any point was largely due to Korra's PTSD, the rest really wasn't too far outside the realm of what worked with Avatar villains.

[Deleted]

Feb 8, 2017 9:02:04 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

Feb 7, 2017 13:10:51 GMT -5 Malcolm said:

The term people are looking for is "Villain Sue".

Even then, sheesh, people really looking for something to complain about. Main reason she was able to best Korra at any point was largely due to Korra's PTSD, the rest really wasn't too far outside the realm of what worked with Avatar villains.

Honestly even Avatar I think often had pretty problems with its main villains. Azula was good but strained credibility at times and was too recurring, Ozai was carried a lot by Hamill and good presentation of his scenes and is actually written very one note, season one Zuko was pretty interesting but never really threatening, Combustion Man was a really cool idea but underutilized, Long Feng just kind of fizzled out, Zhao was a good threat but also a total idiot but he was written that way on purpose so not really a problem per se... Kind of a reason I'd say Amon is easily the best villain in the franchise. Though granted his backstory is out of nowhere and fairly half-baked, and you've got Tarrlok alongside him whose plans only actually make sense if he is Amon and, y'know, he isn't. Though Tarrlok is still pretty decent in terms of just charisma and being scummy.

But hey, nothing's perfect. I still think Amon's a total badass.

[Deleted]

Been watching the second half of season two today and... I will grant the second half is better than I remember it being. I do at least recall liking it more once Korra goes through the whole amnesia thing and subsequently comes out of it much more heroic and proactive and definitely the case again this time. That said though... The Mako and Bolin plot is still pretty useless and really doesn't actually accomplish anything, and Mako's still pretty detestable.

Either way, next episode is the episode that I decided to stop on, so see how that goes. If nothing else this time around I'm going to actually watch the season two finale, and since everyone says it's better I'm going to give season three a shot so... We'll see.

I still don't understand why Varrick had to do this massive gambit to get Asami to sell a controlling interest in her company when she came to him desperate to be bailed out to begin with. I understand the rest of the plan but the thing would've worked fine if he hadn't had that stupid addition to it.

Edit: Oh right, I forgot the fight scene at the end of this episode. It really is amazing how Unalaq straight up travels at the speed of plot, but half the time when he does so he doesn't even actually, like, DO anything. He bounces all over both worlds just to evilly gloat about things that really have nothing to do with his actual plan.

Further edit: I was kind of digging the finale up until, "Let's take away Korra's powers in service of the stupid cut off from the past Avatars idea we keep trying to force for some reason between this and The Promise, then give them right back with no real explanation, then have a kaiju fight because." Still pretty solid on the whole though, if kind of belabored in actually ending and not really making a lot of internal sense, and easily the best the animation the season has.

Though do wish the season had provided, like... Any reason for why the two worlds should be connected. Because pretty much all available evidence within both this season and the original show suggests that's kind of a terrible idea. Do appreciate making a massive change to the status quo like that, just wish it made more sense in-universe to do so.

[chrom]

Went on a fan forum the other day and the only thing they were talking about was her and Asami getting together and all the fanart and drawings they had posted on there. I asked them if they remembered anything that happened in the series besides them becoming a couple.

None of them were able to answer.

[Deleted]

Finished up the opening three-parter of season three. I'm seeing why I got bored and changed the channel to Gravity Falls based on what I was seeing first time I tried watching it, because I was seeing easily the weakest part of the episode.

In general though, while I pretty much find every member of Mako and Bolin's family annoying, the political stuff is a bit forced and stupid (and really feels needless, Korra had plenty of reason to leave the city without being kicked out), and the Earth Queen is a ridiculous joke with how one note evil she is, I actually really like the start to the season as a whole based on what new I was seeing. In particular Korra feels like she's grown a ton as a character, after two seasons of failing they actually managed to make Meeko funny, Tenzin has a good arc, and the evil Gaang is pretty great. Though the main guy's voice sounds way too young for his design. Can forgive it though since it's still a good performance in its own right and fits how he's written even if it doesn't fit the art.

Speaking of the art, episode made me realize how dumb the Dai Li design is. I think it's because of the green ponytail thing on the hats, not too noticeable in Avatar but impossible to miss at the end of the third episode.

[Gerard Gerard]

It's my understanding that Nick wanted Korra to run indefinitely and informed Konietzko and DiMartino of this decision in the latter portion of Book 1's development, hence the tone just jackknifes somewhat and you're left feeling like you missed a beat. As consequence, the initial parts of Book 2 feel like they've reset a lot of Book 1's character growth as to give said characters logical arcs to ride going forward, something which just manages to work toward's Book 2's end.

Also, kudos to the Team Avatar creators for doing an origin story that doesn't kill the universe/lore/intrigue. Hell, I'd even go as far to say "Beginnings" was the highlight of Book 2.

[Deleted]

Feb 6, 2017 5:17:57 GMT -5 MAGGLE said:

So dont watch season 3, its too good of a season to be just hated on because of nostlgia goggles.

So to revisit this point, just finished season three and... Yeah, it's a pretty vast improvement over two pretty much immediately.

I don't think it's perfect - it feels a little too aimless for a lot of it, I feel like some of the subplots could've been cut, the Earth Queen stuff is pretty hard to take seriously with what a ridiculous one-note villain she is, Kai's annoying, and the resolution feels rushed - but there is still a lot I like about it on the whole. Korra throughout the whole season feels way smarter and more effective than she ever did before, Bolin at least wasn't anywhere near as dumb as he was in season two and manages to get a few laughs along the way which he pretty much never did even in season one (see also Meelo rapidly becoming pretty consistently funny... though that said I don't find Mako and Bolin's grandma even slightly humorous; still don't really like Bolin but I don't actively dislike him so that's a big improvement), animation's better, and the Red Lotus are just great villains, especially Zaheer who I wish there was a lot more of. All in all it's certainly at least on par with season one and might be better.

Also gotta say while I still have my trepidation on it the ending notes do make me a lot more curious about season four and definitely going to give it a look. For the short term the trauma of the whole situation is conveyed very, very well.

[Deleted]

Just finishing up season four after deciding to just go ahead and binge it and... First off, no, contrary to how people described her to me I wouldn't say Kuvira's someone I'd describe as a Mary Sue. If anything I'd say she's one of the more fallible Avatar villains since she's the only major one I can think of who when a situation starts going south recognizes it and kind of starts panicking a bit, which is pretty refreshing. Granted, the sympathy for the devil thing is super tacked on (largely due to how often getting there she takes the most evil route possible with her actions), and it does feel like they're having to force it to actually make her rise to the threat level she is by having the entire world ignoring an obvious looming threat who's basically loudly boasting of how she plans to conquer everything. Do like though that both times Korra fights her they make it pretty clear Korra outright had the fight won barring outside circumstance. I also like that she really isn't even the main villain and that the whole season is really more just events taking place in the shadow of what Zaheer did with him looming over everything.

Season as a whole... Not a bad finale but I don't like it as much as one and three. Bit too cluttered at points, and the strongest part of it was Korra's issues but a lot of the time she felt like she was being pushed aside. Kind of to the point I genuinely would not be surprised if Bolin has more total screentime than she does. Still, don't at all regret watching it, and one thing the season was actually quite good at (season three had a good bit of this too) is I'd question the logic of something and then said question would be raised and answered in the show proper.

Also, I can see why people were unclear about Korra and Asami hooking up until they confirmed it because despite some moments along the way, moreso in season three, it really does come right the hell out of nowhere and the implication they've hooked up is way more in the art than it is in the dialogue.

[Crimson]

Feb 7, 2017 13:10:51 GMT -5 Malcolm said:

Feb 6, 2017 6:41:51 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

Man, now Kuvira is getting called a Mary Sue? What does that term even mean anymore?

The term people are looking for is "Villain Sue".

Even then though, the one time she beats Korra in a fight, Korra was actually handicapped. On a scale of villains who called be "sues" Kuvira is below both Amon, who broke conventions by Bloodbending without a full moon, and Zaheer, who became an instant Airbending Prodigy the literal second he gained the abilities.

[H-Virus]

Feb 15, 2017 19:19:24 GMT -5 Crimson said:

Feb 7, 2017 13:10:51 GMT -5 Malcolm said:

The term people are looking for is "Villain Sue".

Even then though, the one time she beats Korra in a fight, Korra was actually handicapped. On a scale of villains who called be "sues" Kuvira is below both Amon, who broke conventions by Bloodbending without a full moon, and Zaheer, who became an instant Airbending Prodigy the literal second he gained the abilities.

Speaking of which: I know a lot of people complained about Korra losing too often, but it does make a lot of sense considering how outclassed she was by her opponents. Yes, she is the Avatar, but the guys she was fighting were-

1. An OP bloodbender who didn't need the full moon and could also mentally psych her out with the threat of stealing her bending permanantly just by touching her.

2. A master waterbender who was far more in tune with the spirits than she was, making it much simpler for him to fully bond with Vaatu than it was for her to bond with Raava.

3. A criminal so dangerous that both he and his teammates had to be held in isolated prisons designed specifically for them, and that was when he wasn't a bender.


Kuvira was the only big bad that was truly weaker than Korra, and only won at all because Korra had just recently recovered from being crippled for the last three years and was suffering from PTSD.

[Deleted]

Feb 15, 2017 21:52:59 GMT -5 H-Virus said:

3. A criminal so dangerous that both he and his teammates had to be held in isolated prisons designed specifically for them, and that was when he wasn't a bender.

I like Zaheer a lot, but that did kind of bug me, specifically the fact that once he becomes an airbender, that's pretty much all the skill he ever demonstrates as a fighter. Guess something to be said for working with what you've got, but while you see his dangerous side through his planning and stuff it'd have been kind of nice to get a better idea of the skills he already possessed as a fighter.

[Red Impact]

LoK and The Last Airbender had to tackle the world in two completely different ways, and I think they each hit high points and low points because of it.

Character development in TLA was way better than Korra, because we had a lot longer to see the characters interact with each other and the world. But because TLA was an epic, with clear good vs. clear evil, there wasn't much complexity to the conflict outside of Jet. In Korra, there was much more complexity in the conflicts (for the most part), but most of the cast felt one-note because there the pacing was so quick and there was no time to develop most of them. So while you could really see Amon's point (before the bad reveal), characters like Asami and Mako were just bland compared to their TLA counterparts.

But Korra's world building was better It tends to strain credibility that every nation is so distinctly drawn and only people of that nation live there in TLA, but with it being an epic, the simplicity can work. But with Korra's different feel and faster pace, it really felt more like a realistic world where benders of all nations and non-benders were living and interacting, where non-benders might resist having no voice and power, where every water tribe member isn't united.

["Trickster Dogg" James Jesse]

Feb 16, 2017 13:29:26 GMT -5 Red Impact said:

LoK and The Last Airbender had to tackle the world in two completely different ways, and I think they each hit high points and low points because of it.

Character development in TLA was way better than Korra, because we had a lot longer to see the characters interact with each other and the world. But because TLA was an epic, with clear good vs. clear evil, there wasn't much complexity to the conflict outside of Jet. In Korra, there was much more complexity in the conflicts (for the most part), but most of the cast felt one-note because there the pacing was so quick and there was no time to develop most of them. So while you could really see Amon's point (before the bad reveal), characters like Asami and Mako were just bland compared to their TLA counterparts.

But Korra's world building was better It tends to strain credibility that every nation is so distinctly drawn and only people of that nation live there in TLA, but with it being an epic, the simplicity can work. But with Korra's different feel and faster pace, it really felt more like a realistic world where benders of all nations and non-benders were living and interacting, where non-benders might resist having no voice and power, where every water tribe member isn't united.

One bit of world-building that LoK does that's subtle, but enriches both TLA and LoK, is how lightning-bending became democratized. In TLA, it's strictly an aristocratic practice of the Fire Nation royal family. In LoK, working-class firebenders use lightning-bending to power Republic City. So lightning-bending was a practice of inequality in one era along the lines of social class, but then becomes a new source of inequality in another era along the lines of economic class, which is surprising for a show meant for children and young adults.

[Red Impact]

Feb 16, 2017 18:49:12 GMT -5 "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse said:

Feb 16, 2017 13:29:26 GMT -5 Red Impact said:

LoK and The Last Airbender had to tackle the world in two completely different ways, and I think they each hit high points and low points because of it.

Character development in TLA was way better than Korra, because we had a lot longer to see the characters interact with each other and the world. But because TLA was an epic, with clear good vs. clear evil, there wasn't much complexity to the conflict outside of Jet. In Korra, there was much more complexity in the conflicts (for the most part), but most of the cast felt one-note because there the pacing was so quick and there was no time to develop most of them. So while you could really see Amon's point (before the bad reveal), characters like Asami and Mako were just bland compared to their TLA counterparts.

But Korra's world building was better It tends to strain credibility that every nation is so distinctly drawn and only people of that nation live there in TLA, but with it being an epic, the simplicity can work. But with Korra's different feel and faster pace, it really felt more like a realistic world where benders of all nations and non-benders were living and interacting, where non-benders might resist having no voice and power, where every water tribe member isn't united.

One bit of world-building that LoK does that's subtle, but enriches both TLA and LoK, is how lightning-bending became democratized. In TLA, it's strictly an aristocratic practice of the Fire Nation royal family. In LoK, working-class firebenders use lightning-bending to power Republic City. So lightning-bending was a practice of inequality in one era along the lines of social class, but then becomes a new source of inequality in another era along the lines of economic class, which is surprising for a show meant for children and young adults.

I can honestly say I've never noticed that before, but that's really cool

[Deleted]

Feb 16, 2017 18:49:12 GMT -5 "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse said:

Feb 16, 2017 13:29:26 GMT -5 Red Impact said:

LoK and The Last Airbender had to tackle the world in two completely different ways, and I think they each hit high points and low points because of it.

Character development in TLA was way better than Korra, because we had a lot longer to see the characters interact with each other and the world. But because TLA was an epic, with clear good vs. clear evil, there wasn't much complexity to the conflict outside of Jet. In Korra, there was much more complexity in the conflicts (for the most part), but most of the cast felt one-note because there the pacing was so quick and there was no time to develop most of them. So while you could really see Amon's point (before the bad reveal), characters like Asami and Mako were just bland compared to their TLA counterparts.

But Korra's world building was better It tends to strain credibility that every nation is so distinctly drawn and only people of that nation live there in TLA, but with it being an epic, the simplicity can work. But with Korra's different feel and faster pace, it really felt more like a realistic world where benders of all nations and non-benders were living and interacting, where non-benders might resist having no voice and power, where every water tribe member isn't united.

One bit of world-building that LoK does that's subtle, but enriches both TLA and LoK, is how lightning-bending became democratized. In TLA, it's strictly an aristocratic practice of the Fire Nation royal family. In LoK, working-class firebenders use lightning-bending to power Republic City. So lightning-bending was a practice of inequality in one era along the lines of social class, but then becomes a new source of inequality in another era along the lines of economic class, which is surprising for a show meant for children and young adults.

That is a pretty well done and subtle little thing, though one thing that does bug me about the lightning-bending in the show is how Mako's established to be able to do it early on and then only actually does it like once or twice in a fight. I guess it's probably easier to get his mind in the proper state to do it in a professional working setting than it is in the middle of combat, but kind of throws it a bit when he pretty immediately tosses it out against Ming-Hua soon as it'd be handy to do so.