Marvel's licensed books interracting with the MU

[Joe Neglia]

(NOTE: This doesn't include inter-company crossovers or celebrity appearances)

During the late 70s and the 80s, Marvel was doing a lot of licensed books, mostly based on toy lines, and a lot of those books took place in the Marvel Universe alongside Spider-Man, the Avengers, etc. Shogun Warriors, Micronauts, Godzilla, Team America, US 1, Human Fly, ROM, Conan/Red Sonja, Doc Savage, Questprobe, the Fu Manchu material in Shang-Chi, Doctor Who over in the UK books, and even the Transformers for a little while before quietly dropping the idea. Later on, NFL Superpro and Meteor Man were set in the MU.

And it was all in-continuity. Nowadays, that presents a problem, as Marvel holds none of the licenses anymore. A lot of overlaying MU mythology was built out of Micronauts, Rom and Conan, notably things pertaining to the Microverse and the Hyborian Age.

Were/are you a fan of them doing this?

[Chainsaw]

Back then, I was. One of my favorite moments of the Transformers series was Spider-Man showing up in issue 3. That was my favorite superhero teamed with my favorite toy line. It never occurred to me that it could be a marketing stunt to get more people to buy the series, I just enjoyed the fact that it was happening, and solidly put the TF in the Marvel Universe to me. And while I didn't follow them (since I was much younger then), I did see old issues of stuff like Godzilla mixing it up with Shogun Warriors, which I thought were crazy. And of course, I loved Rom, and still wish there was some way for Marvel to bring his universe into the fold, because there's a lot of great stories that could be told out of that.

[wildojinx]

There was also an issue of Alf (yes, that Alf) where Alf met the High Evolutionary. Unfortunately, outside of the opening title page, I cant find any other info on the story. I remember this and while I liked it, it makes reprinting the comics a big hassle. Cant see it happening again, while Marvel does still do comics based on licensed properties, they dont interact with Earth-616 anymore (not that there would be any way for them to interact anyway).

[BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps]

One of my favorites was when Spider-Man appeared in an issue of Marvel's Ren and Stimpy comic to team up with Powdered Toast Man.

Spidey was even willing to sell a punch from Toast Man through a wall.

[Push R Truth]

As a huge fan of mashups, yes. I loved the shit out of it.

Now I want to see Conan riding Godzilla into battle vs Trypticon with special guest ref Hulk and special timekeeper Dr Who.

[A Platypus Rave is Correct]

IF I remember correctly Shuma-Gorath was in a Conan/Red Sonja book as his usual elder god type self.

ROM was awesome, and I liked a lot of the Marvel TF books.

I also remember Death's Head appearing in another book first so Marvel could prove they owned him.

[pegasuswarrior]

What I like about it is that it makes the official Marvel Universe way more important in the grand scheme of things. Like, Transformers have their own thing going on? Ok, but it's not as big or huge as what Hulk and Fantastic Four are dealing with. And when Spidey or whoever shows up in their series, it's a big deal. I like that they keep it in perspective (for the most part). GI Joe? Ok, but S.H.I.E.L.D. is a whole other level. There were stories that could be told, but it didn't have to take away from what the big stars were doing.

Yeah, it's a thing that happened and I dig that continuity can be presented,, but just keep them out of my issues of the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe

[Deleted]

The rights issues regarding these properties and their (at the moment) publishers have always interested me, but I've never found much of a resource online to read up on them.

I've gotten the impression that if the publisher creates a new character in a licensed book, then use them elsewhere they can claim the rights to the character.

Or if they create a different look for a character, they can rename it and claim it as their own.

Examples of these would be...

Circuit Breaker - created by Marvel in the Transformers comic - they had her cameo over in Secret Wars II and, apparently, that "won" them them rights to the character. Naturally, of course, they never used her again, and reprints in later years feature the character. A later variation of Circuit Breaker existed in IDW's comics, but it was a guy and they changed the name slightly.

Bug - based on a Micronauts figure, but the design looked nothing like the action figure, so they renamed him Bug and he's appeared in Marvel comics far beyond the Micronauts comics ended and Marvel losing the license. IIRC Arcturus Rann and Marionette were also creations of comics writers and have been used in Marvel books since (though I guess they have a stronger claim on Bug, as they've not appeared as much as him).

Kulan Gath - created in the Marvel Conan series, used a lot all over the Marvel universe (most notably in Uncanny X-Men)...... used as far up as the late '90s, when Perez and Busiek were on Avengers. I'm guessing Marvel still had the Conan license at that point? He's since appeared in a bunch of Red Sonja comics at Dynamite, including the current series. So apparently he's part & parcel with the Red Sonjaverse now, not Marvel and not Conan; however that rights/possession process went.

[FinalGwen]

There weren't a whole lot of crossovers with the main MU in the Doctor Who comics, other than Seven meeting Death's Head for a storyline.

But in the arc "The Glorious Dead", the Eighth Doctor gets a glimpse at the Omniversal Spectrum, a view into every reality. And one of the realities you see is a picture of Spidey. Not knowing the Marvel links as a kid, it was kind of surprising.

(Also, the Brig once turned up in X-Men to help catch the Juggernaut, but that seemed like more of a writer in joke.)

[wildojinx]

Apr 7, 2017 11:25:26 GMT -5 FinalGwen said:

There weren't a whole lot of crossovers with the main MU in the Doctor Who comics, other than Seven meeting Death's Head for a storyline.

But in the arc "The Glorious Dead", the Eighth Doctor gets a glimpse at the Omniversal Spectrum, a view into every reality. And one of the realities you see is a picture of Spidey. Not knowing the Marvel links as a kid, it was kind of surprising.

)

The Deaths Head/Dr. Who storyline ended IIRC with the Doctor sending Deaths Head onto the roof of Four Freedoms Plaza.

[Joe Neglia]

Apr 7, 2017 7:39:22 GMT -5 wildojinx said:

There was also an issue of Alf (yes, that Alf) where Alf met the High Evolutionary. Unfortunately, outside of the opening title page, I cant find any other info on the story.

Basically, the HE found out ALF was on Earth and visited him to find out how a Melmacian made it to Earth and to make sure he wouldn't interfere in the HE's big plan at the time (the Evolutionary War crossover event).

And we made sure it's canon in the Handbooks. We can't call the character Alf or Gordon or the like, but it's there.

Apr 7, 2017 11:01:32 GMT -5 @knapp said:

The rights issues regarding these properties and their (at the moment) publishers have always interested me, but I've never found much of a resource online to read up on them.

I've gotten the impression that if the publisher creates a new character in a licensed book, then use them elsewhere they can claim the rights to the character.

Or if they create a different look for a character, they can rename it and claim it as their own.

Examples of these would be...

Circuit Breaker - created by Marvel in the Transformers comic - they had her cameo over in Secret Wars II and, apparently, that "won" them them rights to the character. Naturally, of course, they never used her again, and reprints in later years feature the character. A later variation of Circuit Breaker existed in IDW's comics, but it was a guy and they changed the name slightly.

Bug - based on a Micronauts figure, but the design looked nothing like the action figure, so they renamed him Bug and he's appeared in Marvel comics far beyond the Micronauts comics ended and Marvel losing the license. IIRC Arcturus Rann and Marionette were also creations of comics writers and have been used in Marvel books since (though I guess they have a stronger claim on Bug, as they've not appeared as much as him).

Kulan Gath - created in the Marvel Conan series, used a lot all over the Marvel universe (most notably in Uncanny X-Men)...... used as far up as the late '90s, when Perez and Busiek were on Avengers. I'm guessing Marvel still had the Conan license at that point? He's since appeared in a bunch of Red Sonja comics at Dynamite, including the current series. So apparently he's part & parcel with the Red Sonjaverse now, not Marvel and not Conan; however that rights/possession process went.

It depends on what sort of deal the license issuer struck with Marvel. For instance, Hasbro held all rights to characters that were created for the GI Joe and Transformers comics (and hence why Death's Head and Circuit-Breaker made one-page appearances in "real" Marvel books a few weeks before they showed up in Joe and TF, so that Marvel could own those characters). The deal with Mego regarding Micronauts left everything not based/named after an actual toy to Marvel (hence why they can use Bug and Mari but not Karza or Acroyear, and why Rann can't be called Space Glider like he originally was). Gath is...complicated. Honest opinion, I truly believe that was a complete legal team screw-up and they didn't bother realizing Gath was 100% a Marvel character when they transferred the rights. Or maybe Marvel sold the character needing money or something. I dunno.

[Tom Turkey]

My personal headcanon is that G.I. Joe is simply an ally of S.H.I.E.L.D. that helps them fight Cobra, which is a Hydra cell completely independent from it.

[A Platypus Rave is Correct]

Apr 7, 2017 15:12:32 GMT -5 Tom Turkey said:

My personal headcanon is that G.I. Joe is simply an ally of S.H.I.E.L.D. that helps them fight Cobra, which is a Hydra cell completely independent from it.

That's pretty close to what happened if my understanding is correct.

Joe and Cobra were originally meant to be SHIELD and HYDRA... but Hasbro wanted their own licence.

[Apricots And A Pear Tree]

Don't forget the 2001: A Space Odyssey adaption that got a monthly series that debuted X-51 who ended up with his own book.

[Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!!]

considering the continuity disasters it caused (particularly with ROM) I'm glad they don't do it anymore. a lot of that stuff really is meant to be its own universe and putting it together with the Marvel stuff creates too much Fridge Logic.

[wildojinx]

Surprised they didnt try to fit the Star Wars comic into continuity.

[Deleted]

Apr 7, 2017 15:16:30 GMT -5 A Platypus Rave is Correct said:

Apr 7, 2017 15:12:32 GMT -5 Tom Turkey said:

My personal headcanon is that G.I. Joe is simply an ally of S.H.I.E.L.D. that helps them fight Cobra, which is a Hydra cell completely independent from it.

That's pretty close to what happened if my understanding is correct.

Joe and Cobra were originally meant to be SHIELD and HYDRA... but Hasbro wanted their own licence.

Larry Hama had developed a new spinoff of SHIELD called Fury Force. Special agents fighting terrorists. It went nowhere, but when Hasbro came calling (they put it in Marvel's hands to basically come up with everything) Archie Goodwin remembered Hama's earlier pitch and gave the project to him. He modified Fury Force and created Joe and Cobra from that.

[hossfan]

Apr 7, 2017 20:59:03 GMT -5 wildojinx said:

Surprised they didnt try to fit the Star Wars comic into continuity.

Still could happen.

[El Pollo Guerrera]

Loved ROM and the Micronauts, and I fondly remember the Shogun Warriors and Godzilla.

I wonder if they are the reason why Marvel hasn't done a trade paperback of the Marvel Universe Official Handbook? I have the originals and would love to get a collected edition, but I remember that some properties like ROM were included.

[Joe Neglia]

Apr 8, 2017 7:50:03 GMT -5 hossfan said:

Apr 7, 2017 20:59:03 GMT -5 wildojinx said:

Surprised they didnt try to fit the Star Wars comic into continuity.

Still could happen.

I fully expect within the next five years that a Star Wars comic will end with Vader standing inside a Star Destroyer looking out at the great big 50 foot tall purple guy standing on the Death Star, preparing to devour it.

Apr 8, 2017 11:21:54 GMT -5 El Pollo Guerrera said:

Loved ROM and the Micronauts, and I fondly remember the Shogun Warriors and Godzilla.

I wonder if they are the reason why Marvel hasn't done a trade paperback of the Marvel Universe Official Handbook? I have the originals and would love to get a collected edition, but I remember that some properties like ROM were included.

Nope, the only reason Marvel doesn't do trades of the Handbook anymore is that they simply don't sell. We did a almost decades-worth of new Handbooks from 2004 through about 2012, collected them (revised, updated and new stuff added) in a Hardcover series, and about 5 issues into the trade version (which was updated even further), they canned the project on us because it wasn't selling.

The only two things that would have to be adjusted to the old 80s Handbooks for any legal reasons regarding licenses was to remove ROM's entry and his headshot from the Spaceknights entry, that's it.