When did "troll" start having another meaning?

[agent817]

We all know that the term "troll" means someone who goes online and tries to piss everyone off. But then at some point, the word started meaning someone with an opinion that goes against the popular opinion. In other words, someone with unwelcome views. It COULD somehow relate to the other meaning as maybe the opinion can probably piss someone off, but for the most part, I see the actual trolls ganging up on the so-called "troll." Hell, I was called a troll on IMDB for starting a thread on the 2012 Red Dawn board about how I thought that the 1984 film wasn't that great (I thought it was average at best, but even then I don't really care for that film). I also noted that I was entertained by the 2012 film as a fun time-waster (I don't know how my views will hold up as I have only seen it once and it was in theaters, in the middle of the day, too). Don't even get me started on how a lot of people ganged up on me on the 2016 Ghostbusters board on IMDB. No wonder the boards were shut down.

So I want to know. When did this other definition for that term start?

[Welfare Willis]

Well, according to wikipedia:

There are competing theories of where and when "troll" was first used in Internet slang, with numerous unattested accounts of BBS and UseNet origins in the early 1980s or before.

The English noun "troll" in the standard sense of ugly dwarf or giant dates to 1610 and comes from the Old Norse word "troll" meaning giant or demon.[18] The word evokes the trolls of Scandinavian folklore and children's tales: antisocial, quarrelsome and slow-witted creatures which make life difficult for travellers.[19][20]

In modern English usage, "trolling" may describe the fishing technique of slowly dragging a lure or baited hook from a moving boat[21] whereas trawling describes the generally commercial act of dragging a fishing net. Early non-Internet slang use of "trolling" can be found in the military: by 1972 the term "trolling for MiGs" was documented in use by US Navy pilots in Vietnam. It referred to use of "...decoys, with the mission of drawing...fire away..."[22]

The contemporary use of the term is alleged to have appeared on the Internet in the late 1980s,[23][24] but the earliest known attestation according to the Oxford English Dictionary is in 1992.[25][26][27]

The context of the quote cited in the Oxford English Dictionary[26] sets the origin in Usenet in the early 1990s as in the phrase "trolling for newbies", as used in alt.folklore.urban (AFU).[28][29] Commonly, what is meant is a relatively gentle inside joke by veteran users, presenting questions or topics that had been so overdone that only a new user would respond to them earnestly. For example, a veteran of the group might make a post on the common misconception that glass flows over time. Long-time readers would both recognize the poster's name and know that the topic had been discussed a lot, but new subscribers to the group would not realize, and would thus respond. These types of trolls served as a practice to identify group insiders. This definition of trolling, considerably narrower than the modern understanding of the term, was considered a positive contribution.[28][30] One of the most notorious AFU trollers, David Mikkelson,[28] went on to create the urban folklore website Snopes.com.

By the late 1990s, alt.folklore.urban had such heavy traffic and participation that trolling of this sort was frowned upon. Others expanded the term to include the practice of playing a seriously misinformed or deluded user, even in newsgroups where one was not a regular; these were often attempts at humor rather than provocation. The noun troll usually referred to an act of trolling – or to the resulting discussion – rather than to the author, though some posts punned on the dual meaning of troll.[31]

I agree trolls can be a problem, but here's my issue. Where is the line that separates trolling from actual, valid criticism?

[Cranjis McBasketball]

May 17 2011, about noon.

[agent817]

Apr 19, 2017 23:01:55 GMT -5 Welfare Willis said:

Well, according to wikipedia:

There are competing theories of where and when "troll" was first used in Internet slang, with numerous unattested accounts of BBS and UseNet origins in the early 1980s or before.

The English noun "troll" in the standard sense of ugly dwarf or giant dates to 1610 and comes from the Old Norse word "troll" meaning giant or demon.[18] The word evokes the trolls of Scandinavian folklore and children's tales: antisocial, quarrelsome and slow-witted creatures which make life difficult for travellers.[19][20]

In modern English usage, "trolling" may describe the fishing technique of slowly dragging a lure or baited hook from a moving boat[21] whereas trawling describes the generally commercial act of dragging a fishing net. Early non-Internet slang use of "trolling" can be found in the military: by 1972 the term "trolling for MiGs" was documented in use by US Navy pilots in Vietnam. It referred to use of "...decoys, with the mission of drawing...fire away..."[22]

The contemporary use of the term is alleged to have appeared on the Internet in the late 1980s,[23][24] but the earliest known attestation according to the Oxford English Dictionary is in 1992.[25][26][27]

The context of the quote cited in the Oxford English Dictionary[26] sets the origin in Usenet in the early 1990s as in the phrase "trolling for newbies", as used in alt.folklore.urban (AFU).[28][29] Commonly, what is meant is a relatively gentle inside joke by veteran users, presenting questions or topics that had been so overdone that only a new user would respond to them earnestly. For example, a veteran of the group might make a post on the common misconception that glass flows over time. Long-time readers would both recognize the poster's name and know that the topic had been discussed a lot, but new subscribers to the group would not realize, and would thus respond. These types of trolls served as a practice to identify group insiders. This definition of trolling, considerably narrower than the modern understanding of the term, was considered a positive contribution.[28][30] One of the most notorious AFU trollers, David Mikkelson,[28] went on to create the urban folklore website Snopes.com.

By the late 1990s, alt.folklore.urban had such heavy traffic and participation that trolling of this sort was frowned upon. Others expanded the term to include the practice of playing a seriously misinformed or deluded user, even in newsgroups where one was not a regular; these were often attempts at humor rather than provocation. The noun troll usually referred to an act of trolling – or to the resulting discussion – rather than to the author, though some posts punned on the dual meaning of troll.[31]

I agree trolls can be a problem, but here's my issue. Where is the line that separates trolling from actual, valid criticism?

Like I had noted before, my theory is that even valid criticism COULD probably be seen as typical "trolling" in that the criticism may be used to piss somebody off. For example, my positive opinion of the 2016 Ghostbusters film goes against the popular opinion, which would probably piss people off. However, I have been trolled (And I mean the actual meaning here) by those people because I don't share the negative opinion of theirs.

[Blindkarevik]

I think it still means the same thing, the difference comes from the inception. There are the classic trolls who are just there to stir shit up, and there are others who have an actual opinion that is contrary to others opinions and then they are labeled a troll because 'nobody can POSSIBLY have a different opinion on this matter."

For example on this forum.
Poster: I hate wrestling, it's stupid and I can't believe you guys actually watch this garbage - classic troll who decided, "I want to troll that forum."
Poster: I honestly don't see what people see in AJ Styles. His movements are so exaggerated it takes away from everything else and I can't take him seriously - labeled a troll by others

I don't think there was every really a switch or a time when it really started, it's just always been a way for someone to feel good about themselves just the first example is the troll wanting to annoy people and laugh, and the second is others wanting to believe another person couldn't possibly form an opinion opposite of theirs.

[The Thread Barbi]

Waldorf and Statler are the original trolls.

[Malibu Stacy]

It never actually changed meaning, some people just started misusing it when it suited their arguments (or lack thereof).

[Hit Girl]

When people needed a term to excuse outright abusive, bigoted and sociopathic behaviour.

[Push R Truth]

I grow up with trolls being in Middle Earth, under bridges and something you killed in D&D... and trolling was something you did for walleye and pike


"Let's go trolling" was a VERY common thing to hear after church. It meant going to the Mississippi River to catch fish

[Chainsaw]

Apr 20, 2017 19:56:59 GMT -5 Hit Girl said:

When people needed a term to excuse outright abusive, bigoted and sociopathic behaviour.

Now they call it being a "performance artist".