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Post by abjordans on May 16, 2017 15:15:54 GMT -5
I also agree with this. This board, more than any other I have been to, veers too far into that "everything is offensive" territory A LOT. It gets very obnoxious sometimes. You couldn't even discuss things like the JBL/Mauro situation without people coming out of the woodwork being offended. There's a balance that has to be kept, though - the person you're responding to was discussing how places like this don't always feel like safe spaces, while your side counters that places like this go too far in reigning in things that are offensive to others. They're diametrically opposed in that regard. If we go total safe space, we have to eliminate everything that offends; if we want to give more freedom to views that offend or upset others, we lose that safe space feeling that some appreciate. There's no real one way to go about it. We at FAN do our best to find a balance. Sure, not everyone's going to like everything, not everyone's going to agree, but we strive - and we aren't always perfect - to take all views into account and make this place as accessible to everybody as we can. I totally understand keeping the balance. And I like coming here, I think it was determined in one thread that I have actually been coming here longer than most. But, I actually think him and I were saying the same thing. That it can be so PC that it comes back around to where it is no longer a "safe space". That is what I took him to mean at least. |
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Bobeddy
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Made a Terrible Mistake
Posts: 15,189
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Post by Bobeddy on May 16, 2017 15:32:53 GMT -5
While I'd still identify myself as a fan of things (wrestling, movies, anime, SU, FiM) for a long time I was finding my enjoyment of those things was lessening and I realised that a lot of it was down to getting too entrenched in the online stuff. People are much more enthusiastic and passionate to write about something they hated rather than something they enjoyed. This breeds a culture of negativity that paints a picture that even the things that are good are somewhat tainted.
Having every single minute detail criticised and scrutinised by people losing their minds over the smallest gripe, it was souring the things I enjoyed. Since stepping back a good bit, I've found my enjoyment and satisfaction has increased more.
I mean if something's crap in my opinion I'll call it out, but I'll give credit where it's due as well.
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Post by ThereIsNoAbsurdistOnlyZuul on May 16, 2017 17:27:47 GMT -5
It's in the name.
Fan. Short for, and derived from, fanatic.
What were people expecting? Fanatics to be bastions of measured, rational thinking? It is a personal investment of time, emotions, energy. Yourself. By making this thing an extension of yourself what ends up happening is that you cannot accept challenge to that, in any way, because you cannot accept challenge to yourself, because of your investment in it.
It's the personalization that drives fandom forward, but that same fuel is toxic. Especially when it coincides with the Backfire effect, or any other aspect of bias and heuristics.
This happens regardless of the objective/overall importance of the attached object/idea/belief, etc.,etc. Because it is your attachment that transcends the objectivity.
The good news is that there is a fix. The bad news is what the fix is.
You have to be able to be wrong.
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Post by abjordans on May 16, 2017 18:35:28 GMT -5
It's in the name. Fan. Short for, and derived from, fanatic. What were people expecting? Fanatics to be bastions of measured, rational thinking? It is a personal investment of time, emotions, energy. Yourself. By making this thing an extension of yourself what ends up happening is that you cannot accept challenge to that, in any way, because you cannot accept challenge to yourself, because of your investment in it. It's the personalization that drives fandom forward, but that same fuel is toxic. Especially when it coincides with the Backfire effect, or any other aspect of bias and heuristics. This happens regardless of the objective/overall importance of the attached object/idea/belief, etc.,etc. Because it is your attachment that transcends the objectivity. The good news is that there is a fix. The bad news is what the fix is. You have to be able to be wrong.I think there is definitely a line between being a fan of something, as in you like it a lot and support it. The flip side is saying you are a fan of something, but all you do is bash it and seemingly get no enjoyment from it, to the point that it seems to be upsetting you, which is what a lot of fandoms are like now. I think the latter is what this thread is talking about. You can be fanatical about something, but in a positive way, you support it through the good and bad. But, if you call yourself a fan, and all you do is knock on the product you are supposedly a fan of, are you really a fan? |
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Post by Joe Neglia on May 16, 2017 19:51:48 GMT -5
I think there is definitely a line between being a fan of something, as in you like it a lot and support it. The flip side is saying you are a fan of something, but all you do is bash it and seemingly get no enjoyment from it, to the point that it seems to be upsetting you, which is what a lot of fandoms are like now. I think the latter is what this thread is talking about. You can be fanatical about something, but in a positive way, you support it through the good and bad. But, if you call yourself a fan, and all you do is knock on the product you are supposedly a fan of, are you really a fan? That. That right there. I just don't get that mentality, and it's the root of a lot of this and I think it ties into the entitlement thing others have mentioned. Like with the mess that surrounded the Ghostbusters remake...who really won that "war"? People's lives were threatened, people were harassed, even had their privacy violated...all over a remake of a 30 year old film. It wasn't even like they were going to go out and erase the first one; it was still there in all its glory. It wasn't like the new one meant there was no chance of a "proper" part 3 - that was never going to happen anyway thanks to a lot of factors. What did these people accomplish in this bizarre campaign to destroy the film and the people who made it? All they did was make the entire franchise something the studio behind it probably won't want to deal with again for a very long time. Bang up job, if that was the intent. |
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agent817
Fry's dog Seymour
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Member is Online
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Post by agent817 on May 16, 2017 22:28:34 GMT -5
I think there is definitely a line between being a fan of something, as in you like it a lot and support it. The flip side is saying you are a fan of something, but all you do is bash it and seemingly get no enjoyment from it, to the point that it seems to be upsetting you, which is what a lot of fandoms are like now. I think the latter is what this thread is talking about. You can be fanatical about something, but in a positive way, you support it through the good and bad. But, if you call yourself a fan, and all you do is knock on the product you are supposedly a fan of, are you really a fan? That. That right there. I just don't get that mentality, and it's the root of a lot of this and I think it ties into the entitlement thing others have mentioned. Like with the mess that surrounded the Ghostbusters remake...who really won that "war"? People's lives were threatened, people were harassed, even had their privacy violated...all over a remake of a 30 year old film. It wasn't even like they were going to go out and erase the first one; it was still there in all its glory. It wasn't like the new one meant there was no chance of a "proper" part 3 - that was never going to happen anyway thanks to a lot of factors. What did these people accomplish in this bizarre campaign to destroy the film and the people who made it? All they did was make the entire franchise something the studio behind it probably won't want to deal with again for a very long time. Bang up job, if that was the intent. I have defended the Ghostbusters reboot to death. I saw it four times in theaters (You read that right, although there were gaps in between the viewings). If a lot of people don't like the film, great, that's their own viewpoint of it. However, I had been given a lot of flack for my genuine enjoyment of the film (I will admit that I have seen a lot of the flaws the film had). Being that I also like the original two films, I am surprised that no one hasn't given me the trip of "You can't like the original if you like the reboot." That isn't to say that I wouldn't be given such crap, though. People also say that music is not really a fandom. I couldn't disagree any more. For starters, it's bad that a lot of people tend to talk mess about today's music. Please, like some people weren't doing the same thing a decade ago when the music from that time was actually current. As a longtime hip-hop fan, I will say that I am not really big on today's rap, but I will listen to some. But some people act like all of rap of today is bad and some people will insult those who actually enjoy it. I am usually the type who will be all like "let them enjoy it if they like it." |
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Welfare Willis
Crow T. Robot
Pornomancer
555-BONE
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Game Center CX Kacho on!
Posts: 44,259
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Post by Welfare Willis on May 16, 2017 22:54:33 GMT -5
That. That right there. I just don't get that mentality, and it's the root of a lot of this and I think it ties into the entitlement thing others have mentioned. Like with the mess that surrounded the Ghostbusters remake...who really won that "war"? People's lives were threatened, people were harassed, even had their privacy violated...all over a remake of a 30 year old film. It wasn't even like they were going to go out and erase the first one; it was still there in all its glory. It wasn't like the new one meant there was no chance of a "proper" part 3 - that was never going to happen anyway thanks to a lot of factors. What did these people accomplish in this bizarre campaign to destroy the film and the people who made it? All they did was make the entire franchise something the studio behind it probably won't want to deal with again for a very long time. Bang up job, if that was the intent. I have defended the Ghostbusters reboot to death. I saw it four times in theaters (You read that right, although there were gaps in between the viewings). If a lot of people don't like the film, great, that's their own viewpoint of it. However, I had been given a lot of flack for my genuine enjoyment of the film (I will admit that I have seen a lot of the flaws the film had). Being that I also like the original two films, I am surprised that no one hasn't given me the trip of "You can't like the original if you like the reboot." That isn't to say that I wouldn't be given such crap, though. People also say that music is not really a fandom. I couldn't disagree any more. For starters, it's bad that a lot of people tend to talk mess about today's music. Please, like some people weren't doing the same thing a decade ago when the music from that time was actually current. As a longtime hip-hop fan, I will say that I am not really big on today's rap, but I will listen to some. But some people act like all of rap of today is bad and some people will insult those who actually enjoy it. I am usually the type who will be all like "let them enjoy it if they like it." If you want to see toxic fandom check out J-pop or K-pop stars. Many are forbidden to date. |
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Post by ThereIsNoAbsurdistOnlyZuul on May 16, 2017 23:29:24 GMT -5
It's in the name. Fan. Short for, and derived from, fanatic. What were people expecting? Fanatics to be bastions of measured, rational thinking? It is a personal investment of time, emotions, energy. Yourself. By making this thing an extension of yourself what ends up happening is that you cannot accept challenge to that, in any way, because you cannot accept challenge to yourself, because of your investment in it. It's the personalization that drives fandom forward, but that same fuel is toxic. Especially when it coincides with the Backfire effect, or any other aspect of bias and heuristics. This happens regardless of the objective/overall importance of the attached object/idea/belief, etc.,etc. Because it is your attachment that transcends the objectivity. The good news is that there is a fix. The bad news is what the fix is. You have to be able to be wrong.I think there is definitely a line between being a fan of something, as in you like it a lot and support it. The flip side is saying you are a fan of something, but all you do is bash it and seemingly get no enjoyment from it, to the point that it seems to be upsetting you, which is what a lot of fandoms are like now. I think the latter is what this thread is talking about. You can be fanatical about something, but in a positive way, you support it through the good and bad. But, if you call yourself a fan, and all you do is knock on the product you are supposedly a fan of, are you really a fan? Okay, so it's been awhile since I've done this. Please understand I am outlining, underscoring, and just being pedantic me. There is no line. We want there, desperately, to be a line. Then maybe, just maybe we could see the line and stop ourselves. But there is no demarcation like, there is no sign posts to show where one's trajectory has landed. It's a grey scale. It's a spectrum. And we can slide down to the 'dark side.' Because where we are 'good' or 'toxic' a fan, we still have to identify ourselves to the thing we are fans of to be a fan. The mentality of 'fandom' is not inherently bad, it is inherently capable of being problematic. We don't want to associate ourselves with the toxic element, we do not want to believe we could be that bad, and somehow our behavior is better. We are better, and truer in our fandom. That isn't correct. The person who can voice their opinion, and have measure conversations on different interpretations of... say Fight Club, is a fan as long as they consider themselves as such, there is no impartial third party measuring the value of our devotion to the thing/fandom. The same is true to for someone who calls you a name when you mention that you can infer a reading into Fight Club about it's undertone of coming to grips with one's own homosexuality, as long as the insulting, unreasonable person calls themselves a fan, then they are one. There is no such thing true fan, because that is just another sign of toxicity, and ties into my statement of 'personal investment.' This is the de-valuing of someone else's investment in the thing. This is saying 'you're wrong, I'm right.' This is feeding the cycle. This is not making it better. What makes a Fandom is great is what makes it toxic. Not just the people, but their investment in it. This is true for everything that has a belief structure, that has some measure of nuance that people can adhere to. But that nuance makes the group fracture, as different aspects call out to them, it resonates differently with others. So too does the investment of each person differ. Lines are created, because we want our interpretation, our investment to be more true, be more real. To be the one. Except, that isn't true.That is a perception, our perception of the thing. It is tied to us, gives us attachment. Ownership of the thing. And don't anyone f*** with what's mine. That is fanaticism. It is grounded, rooted in the personal. The private. The relationship we have with the object of it. And the difference between a good fan and a bad fan is degree, and being blind to that difference is the most dangerous component. There is no separation other than a flimsy, arbitrary thing we tell ourselves to reinforce the perception that our relationship, our attachment, our investment, and everything that echoes that mentality/sentiment/belief is right. And that is false. It is wrong. It is a lie we tell ourselves. The way past it is to be self-aware of that point, and accept that maybe we're wrong. |
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ayumidah
Patti Mayonnaise
DOOM TIME!!!!!
Posts: 31,495
Member is Online
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Post by ayumidah on May 16, 2017 23:37:19 GMT -5
Yeah, it's pretty awful. I tend to avoid most fandoms for that reason, or just stay on the fringes of it. Kind of why I like Tumblr, you can mostly filter out the bad stuff easier than other places. Avoiding most comment sections help too. People have gotten much too brazen thanks to the somewhat anonymity of the internet.
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segaz
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,381
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Post by segaz on May 17, 2017 5:34:35 GMT -5
I think there is definitely a line between being a fan of something, as in you like it a lot and support it. The flip side is saying you are a fan of something, but all you do is bash it and seemingly get no enjoyment from it, to the point that it seems to be upsetting you, which is what a lot of fandoms are like now. I think the latter is what this thread is talking about. You can be fanatical about something, but in a positive way, you support it through the good and bad. But, if you call yourself a fan, and all you do is knock on the product you are supposedly a fan of, are you really a fan? Okay, so it's been awhile since I've done this. Please understand I am outlining, underscoring, and just being pedantic me. There is no line. We want there, desperately, to be a line. Then maybe, just maybe we could see the line and stop ourselves. But there is no demarcation like, there is no sign posts to show where one's trajectory has landed. It's a grey scale. It's a spectrum. And we can slide down to the 'dark side.' Because where we are 'good' or 'toxic' a fan, we still have to identify ourselves to the thing we are fans of to be a fan. The mentality of 'fandom' is not inherently bad, it is inherently capable of being problematic. We don't want to associate ourselves with the toxic element, we do not want to believe we could be that bad, and somehow our behavior is better. We are better, and truer in our fandom. That isn't correct. The person who can voice their opinion, and have measure conversations on different interpretations of... say Fight Club, is a fan as long as they consider themselves as such, there is no impartial third party measuring the value of our devotion to the thing/fandom. The same is true to for someone who calls you a name when you mention that you can infer a reading into Fight Club about it's undertone of coming to grips with one's own homosexuality, as long as the insulting, unreasonable person calls themselves a fan, then they are one. There is no such thing true fan, because that is just another sign of toxicity, and ties into my statement of 'personal investment.' This is the de-valuing of someone else's investment in the thing. This is saying 'you're wrong, I'm right.' This is feeding the cycle. This is not making it better. What makes a Fandom is great is what makes it toxic. Not just the people, but their investment in it. This is true for everything that has a belief structure, that has some measure of nuance that people can adhere to. But that nuance makes the group fracture, as different aspects call out to them, it resonates differently with others. So too does the investment of each person differ. Lines are created, because we want our interpretation, our investment to be more true, be more real. To be the one. Except, that isn't true.That is a perception, our perception of the thing. It is tied to us, gives us attachment. Ownership of the thing. And don't anyone f*** with what's mine. That is fanaticism. It is grounded, rooted in the personal. The private. The relationship we have with the object of it. And the difference between a good fan and a bad fan is degree, and being blind to that difference is the most dangerous component. There is no separation other than a flimsy, arbitrary thing we tell ourselves to reinforce the perception that our relationship, our attachment, our investment, and everything that echoes that mentality/sentiment/belief is right. And that is false. It is wrong. It is a lie we tell ourselves. The way past it is to be self-aware of that point, and accept that maybe we're wrong. I see what you are saying, and while I agree in part, I dislike the whole 'there is no right or wrong, every extreme is an expression and should be accepted' vibe I get at times. I generally always back down and become less irate once I see the other person is willing to debate and even accept and rationalize with the other person, barring self evident extremes. |
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lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
Posts: 7,028
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Post by lucas_lee on May 17, 2017 9:11:54 GMT -5
It's why I stay off the WWE boards here unforunately. Showing a different opinion than the norm is either shouted down at or is given snide comments or seen as trolling. I can barely discuss what I like because mostly everyone is hate watching the product.
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Push R Truth
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Perpetually Constipated
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Post by Push R Truth on May 17, 2017 10:10:29 GMT -5
It reminds me a lot of playing golf with friends... and why I rarely do it anymore. With the right mix of 4 friends we go out there and hack at the ball, drink some beers and have a good time. With the wrong mix of 4 guys it turns into annoying tedium as it gets too serious and morphs it from a game into a serious competition. Instead of laughter it morphs into anger and bad feelings.
The intent was to go out there and have a couple hours of entertainment, not to have a life defining event.
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Dragonfly
Unicron
...is no Barry Windham.
Posts: 2,503 
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Post by Dragonfly on May 17, 2017 10:23:55 GMT -5
Having every single minute detail criticised and scrutinised by people losing their minds over the smallest gripe, it was souring the things I enjoyed. Since stepping back a good bit, I've found my enjoyment and satisfaction has increased more. This is exactly why I usually don't watch Netflix originals. It's the same pattern every time: 1. Show is released. 2. People find the show. By the end of the week, a vocal fan base deconstructs the show like it's the second coming of Moby Dick. 3. Think pieces start, usually pushing a specific idea, concept or way of looking at things. 4. Thanks to the think pieces, the loudest fans get louder. 5. The conversation is now exclusively about the "points" the show is supposedly making instead of about the show itself. 6. New show, or a new season of a show, is released; cycle repeats. I'm not just talking about prestige, "five stars in the Tokyo Dome" stuff either. Even higher end shows that people dislike, like Marco Polo or Iron Fist, get this treatment. I'm not saying that analyzing prestige shows is anything new. (I have an English degree. We've been sucking the fun out of the written word for centuries.) But that's the thing: This isn't the Canterbury Tales. It's a freaking TV show. It's supposed to be enjoyable. Writing articles that only focus on the more dldramatic elements of Bojack Horseman or somehow tying Stranger Things to the President just kills the entertainment value for me. |
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Post by ThereIsNoAbsurdistOnlyZuul on May 17, 2017 10:28:55 GMT -5
Okay, so it's been awhile since I've done this. Please understand I am outlining, underscoring, and just being pedantic me. There is no line. We want there, desperately, to be a line. Then maybe, just maybe we could see the line and stop ourselves. But there is no demarcation like, there is no sign posts to show where one's trajectory has landed. It's a grey scale. It's a spectrum. And we can slide down to the 'dark side.' Because where we are 'good' or 'toxic' a fan, we still have to identify ourselves to the thing we are fans of to be a fan. The mentality of 'fandom' is not inherently bad, it is inherently capable of being problematic. We don't want to associate ourselves with the toxic element, we do not want to believe we could be that bad, and somehow our behavior is better. We are better, and truer in our fandom. That isn't correct. The person who can voice their opinion, and have measure conversations on different interpretations of... say Fight Club, is a fan as long as they consider themselves as such, there is no impartial third party measuring the value of our devotion to the thing/fandom. The same is true to for someone who calls you a name when you mention that you can infer a reading into Fight Club about it's undertone of coming to grips with one's own homosexuality, as long as the insulting, unreasonable person calls themselves a fan, then they are one. There is no such thing true fan, because that is just another sign of toxicity, and ties into my statement of 'personal investment.' This is the de-valuing of someone else's investment in the thing. This is saying 'you're wrong, I'm right.' This is feeding the cycle. This is not making it better. What makes a Fandom is great is what makes it toxic. Not just the people, but their investment in it. This is true for everything that has a belief structure, that has some measure of nuance that people can adhere to. But that nuance makes the group fracture, as different aspects call out to them, it resonates differently with others. So too does the investment of each person differ. Lines are created, because we want our interpretation, our investment to be more true, be more real. To be the one. Except, that isn't true.That is a perception, our perception of the thing. It is tied to us, gives us attachment. Ownership of the thing. And don't anyone f*** with what's mine. That is fanaticism. It is grounded, rooted in the personal. The private. The relationship we have with the object of it. And the difference between a good fan and a bad fan is degree, and being blind to that difference is the most dangerous component. There is no separation other than a flimsy, arbitrary thing we tell ourselves to reinforce the perception that our relationship, our attachment, our investment, and everything that echoes that mentality/sentiment/belief is right. And that is false. It is wrong. It is a lie we tell ourselves. The way past it is to be self-aware of that point, and accept that maybe we're wrong. I see what you are saying, and while I agree in part, I dislike the whole 'there is no right or wrong, every extreme is an expression and should be accepted' vibe I get at times. I generally always back down and become less irate once I see the other person is willing to debate and even accept and rationalize with the other person, barring self evident extremes. See, I didn't say that. I can, however, see where someone would get that reading. Though I feel that extolling to virtues of being able to accept that your view is wrong undercuts that reading. What I am saying is the mechanism that makes someone a fan is the same whether the person's behavior is positive or negative. That is why fans, and fandoms, are toxic, that the difference between a 'good' fan and a 'toxic' fan is arbitrary, and is employed by the user of the term based on where they stand. What I am saying is that 'fan' as it's relationship to the term fanatic is still very real, and very dangerous. Fanatics and fanaticism are not points to be romanticized, even if we agree with them. Unfortunately, I have to skirt around certain topics, though funny enough, if I bring them up, the reaction would very much prove my point. As I don't adhere to the view that every stance, every perception, belief is right. In fact, I believe that o nce a person's belief structure requires them to cause intentional, or from willful ignorance, harm to another then the validity of the opinion/belief/whatever is in question. That is a far more objective stance. Note I am not talking about what they believe, I am talking about their personal relationship with that belief. |
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Post by Joe Neglia on May 17, 2017 11:35:44 GMT -5
I want to sincerely thank everyone who has contributed to this thread thus far. While we all aren't on the exact same page in terms of our opinions and stances on this, I am greatly appreciating the conversation we are having regarding it.
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Nikki Heyman
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by Nikki Heyman on May 17, 2017 12:00:22 GMT -5
It's why I stay off the WWE boards here unforunately. Showing a different opinion than the norm is either shouted down at or is given snide comments or seen as trolling. I can barely discuss what I like because mostly everyone is hate watching the product. You're not alone in that. I dealt with being a lone voice in liking a product that all these other "Fans" hated. I left two message boards over this. I think the conversation here is better than what I left, but it still boggles my mind that people can complain about something they "like" all the time and certainly sound like they don't want to be there. I don't understand that mentality at all. If I don't like something as strong as they do, I wouldn't be there - I don't have time for that level of negativity anymore. |
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on May 17, 2017 12:25:33 GMT -5
On another not I can not stand fan theories. Any of them. You know what I like? Creator/Writer/Director theories. I don't agree. SENSIBLE fan theories can add to the enjoyment if you like them. For instance, I like the James Bond code name theory because it keeps all of the movies canon and in their original context without having to retcon anything. Other people hate the idea and are free to ignore it. Fan entitlement is an issue though. I grew up on Star Wars. I also grew up with certain ideas regarding the fall of the Republic and the Clone Wars, based partially on the EU. As a result, I was disappointed in the prequel trilogy somewhat, but if I had the power to redo it myself for Lucas the only major changes I would insist on is that Anakin be older (as in the same age as Padme or older), Jar Jar would be more socially inept than cartoonish lay clumsy, and I would imply that Anakin and Padme spent more time falling in love. This is in part because i would want to preserve as much of Lucas's vision as possible while making some needed improvements. I am not so married to my own preconceptions that I could not enjoy the material presented by the creator of the very thing I am a fan of. I feel that being that entitled hurts my ability to enjoy what I happen to like. Closing myself off would have kept me from watching the Clone Wars and Rebels and that would have been sad for me. I would have missed great stories involving new characters like Ahsoka, Ventress, Rex, and Savage Oppress (all Lucas creations) as well as the return of Maul (another thing straight from Lucas). |
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on May 17, 2017 12:34:56 GMT -5
On another not I can not stand fan theories. Any of them. You know what I like? Creator/Writer/Director theories. I don't agree. SENSIBLE fan theories can add to the enjoyment if you like them. For instance, I like the James Bond code name theory because it keeps all of the movies canon and in their original context without having to retcon anything. You do have to retcon things though. Namely Bond's wife whose death was mentioned multiple times and multiple actors (not to mention the End of Skyfall later) |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 13:06:48 GMT -5
It's why I stay off the WWE boards here unforunately. Showing a different opinion than the norm is either shouted down at or is given snide comments or seen as trolling. I can barely discuss what I like because mostly everyone is hate watching the product. You're not alone in that. I dealt with being a lone voice in liking a product that all these other "Fans" hated. I left two message boards over this. I think the conversation here is better than what I left, but it still boggles my mind that people can complain about something they "like" all the time and certainly sound like they don't want to be there. I don't understand that mentality at all. If I don't like something as strong as they do, I wouldn't be there - I don't have time for that level of negativity anymore. I always think of it in terms of local sports teams. Everyone who follows local sports always become disenfranchised in bad times, but will still follow along and as soon as things start turning around again they dust off their jersey and act like they've been on their side the whole time. I don't really mind it, there are times I get pretty frustrated with movies or wrestling or whatever it is, people who are passionate about such stuff are gonna give passionate opinions as long as it's delivered with the understanding that that's all they are is opinions, and no one really holds authority over what's right and wrong. What I dislike is when people take it to a personal level. Like Josh Matthews, I don't like his commentary, he seems like a bit of a douche based on how he presents himself but that's incredibly unimportant to me. I don't know him personally so I would never feel qualified making declarative statements about the quality of his character and it's irrelevant to any conversation about the product itself. Threads where it's simply "Josh Matthews said something" that become a pile-on, or when Vince Russo comes up, who has been universally disliked for over a decade now, why does he have to come up? Why are people seeking out personal opinions from someone they so thoroughly detest? There's no real conversation to be had with that stuff and I think threads that exist just to beat a guy up are pretty unnecessary. I hate when conversations about performances, or music delve into the personal. You don't have to like Roman Reigns the wrestler, but why is it important to investigate whether the man himself is an asshole, you'll find threads every now and again where it's "Roman looks like a bit of an asshole in this interview" and stuff. Just doesn't matter to me. This Orton/Osprey thing could have been a pretty good discussion to have because it actually pertains to the art of wrestling itself and its modern implementation and it's a shame we couldn't have that conversation here without going into hysterics and calling people pieces of shit. In general, the amount of times I read the phrase "piece of shit" referring to someone who said something disagreeable at worst really bugs me. If it's not conducive to a civil two-way conversation or even funny, and its whole intent is to dwell in the negative then I'm pretty tired of it at this point. I'm forgiving because I know I used to be that guy. I'm in my thirties now and I'm less into the whole "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" thing but I used to be as bad as everything I just described and sometimes still can be I'm sure. I have no problem with negative opinions and I have several of my own but I prefer to keep it to the works themselves and not the real human beings behind it. Everyone's wired different and there's a one hundred percent chance you're gonna run into someone you're incompatible with. You really have to look at things through a filter if you wanna take part and not lose your mind. |
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on May 18, 2017 10:39:04 GMT -5
You're not alone in that. I dealt with being a lone voice in liking a product that all these other "Fans" hated. I left two message boards over this. I think the conversation here is better than what I left, but it still boggles my mind that people can complain about something they "like" all the time and certainly sound like they don't want to be there. I don't understand that mentality at all. If I don't like something as strong as they do, I wouldn't be there - I don't have time for that level of negativity anymore. I always think of it in terms of local sports teams. Everyone who follows local sports always become disenfranchised in bad times, but will still follow along and as soon as things start turning around again they dust off their jersey and act like they've been on their side the whole time. I don't really mind it, there are times I get pretty frustrated with movies or wrestling or whatever it is, people who are passionate about such stuff are gonna give passionate opinions as long as it's delivered with the understanding that that's all they are is opinions, and no one really holds authority over what's right and wrong. What I dislike is when people take it to a personal level. Like Josh Matthews, I don't like his commentary, he seems like a bit of a douche based on how he presents himself but that's incredibly unimportant to me. I don't know him personally so I would never feel qualified making declarative statements about the quality of his character and it's irrelevant to any conversation about the product itself. Threads where it's simply "Josh Matthews said something" that become a pile-on, or when Vince Russo comes up, who has been universally disliked for over a decade now, why does he have to come up? Why are people seeking out personal opinions from someone they so thoroughly detest? There's no real conversation to be had with that stuff and I think threads that exist just to beat a guy up are pretty unnecessary. I hate when conversations about performances, or music delve into the personal. You don't have to like Roman Reigns the wrestler, but why is it important to investigate whether the man himself is an asshole, you'll find threads every now and again where it's "Roman looks like a bit of an asshole in this interview" and stuff. Just doesn't matter to me. This Orton/Osprey thing could have been a pretty good discussion to have because it actually pertains to the art of wrestling itself and its modern implementation and it's a shame we couldn't have that conversation here without going into hysterics and calling people pieces of shit. In general, the amount of times I read the phrase "piece of shit" referring to someone who said something disagreeable at worst really bugs me. If it's not conducive to a civil two-way conversation or even funny, and its whole intent is to dwell in the negative then I'm pretty tired of it at this point. I'm forgiving because I know I used to be that guy. I'm in my thirties now and I'm less into the whole "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" thing but I used to be as bad as everything I just described and sometimes still can be I'm sure. I have no problem with negative opinions and I have several of my own but I prefer to keep it to the works themselves and not the real human beings behind it. Everyone's wired different and there's a one hundred percent chance you're gonna run into someone you're incompatible with. You really have to look at things through a filter if you wanna take part and not lose your mind. Exactly. The moment someone starts going into the realm of the personal or wishing ill on someone because of their opinion, my brain automatically tunes out their attempt to be taken seriously. And yes, I totally agree with you on the attitude of actively seeking out the opinions of reviled people like Russo, or whatever horrible thing a dumbass YouTube commentator said. All it accomplishes is making rationally minded people miserable, not to mention it fuels the assholes who get off on trolling. |
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