the2ndevil
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Post by the2ndevil on Jun 5, 2017 18:12:36 GMT -5
I wish Alexa Bliss matches were any good but the best I've seen of her is 'Passable'. This is my stance. As a character performer, she's among the very best in the company. As wrestler, well, her character work is really good.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2017 18:24:29 GMT -5
I think what makes Alexa work for me when Nikki or Charlotte didn't is that, with the glaring exception of last night, the way she's booked makes sense with her as a character and performer.
Nikki was a heel, but would cut these awful pseudo-babyface promos about how hard she worked to get where she was and how she wanted to be an inspiration to people, while cheating to win constantly. Charlotte is microphone poison, and for as many good matches as she's had, she'd had just as many that were sloppy spotfests that nearly resulted in someone (usually Sasha) getting killed while Michael Cole screamed in my ear about history being made. Alexa cuts good promos where she acts like a total bitch, and more often than not wins matches by either being crafty, taking advantage of situations, or just outright cheating (again, excepting last night). There's no "I'm really talented too, guys!" promos, no "HISTORIC HISTORIC HISTORIC HISTORY" commentary, no sloppy almost-murders and "epic" title changes. She's a straightforward heel whose wrestling and promos all make sense in tandem.
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Post by abjordans on Jun 5, 2017 19:07:30 GMT -5
I would say Alexa Bliss is going to take the crown on the board turning on her quicker than anyone ever.
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Post by Super Duper Dragunov on Jun 5, 2017 20:40:51 GMT -5
If they'd just held off til WM to have Bayley beat Charlotte for the title and then have Sasha turn heel on her the next night on Raw, we'd be in the middle of a Sasha/Bayley program with a much needed heel Sasha who is the perfect counter to put over Bayley's babyface persona.
And it wouldn't even have to be "jeez Bayley you like WWE you're dumb, oh HAI FANS IN THE CROWD!"
It could be Bayley looking dominant saying, "I beat you in NXT, and I can do it again, you're not taking this belt from me"
and Sasha can go back to making Bayley fans cry.
and Cole can stop saying "it's boss time".
Seriously.
At this rate Alexa is turning into what Charlotte was, what Roman Reigns is, and that's someone that's a victim of the shitty writing of their character.
Well this applies to damn near everyone, but I meant as far as being booked dominant.
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Post by corndog on Jun 5, 2017 22:19:46 GMT -5
I think what makes Alexa work for me when Nikki or Charlotte didn't is that, with the glaring exception of last night, the way she's booked makes sense with her as a character and performer. Nikki was a heel, but would cut these awful pseudo-babyface promos about how hard she worked to get where she was and how she wanted to be an inspiration to people, while cheating to win constantly. Charlotte is microphone poison, and for as many good matches as she's had, she'd had just as many that were sloppy spotfests that nearly resulted in someone (usually Sasha) getting killed while Michael Cole screamed in my ear about history being made. Alexa cuts good promos where she acts like a total bitch, and more often than not wins matches by either being crafty, taking advantage of situations, or just outright cheating (again, excepting last night). There's no "I'm really talented too, guys!" promos, no "HISTORIC HISTORIC HISTORIC HISTORY" commentary, no sloppy almost-murders and "epic" title changes. She's a straightforward heel whose wrestling and promos all make sense in tandem. Her promos and character work are good, and miles beyond the robotic sounding Charlotte and Nikki ones you mentioned. But... she is 5 foot flat and should not be booked as a dominant heel. Charlotte's promos are bad, although getting better(but then again they couldn't really get worse), however due to her size and physical ability, I can completely understand her dominance. If anything, Alexa really should be a chickenshit heel that relies on cheating and outsmarting her opponents to win. At least with Becky she mainly relied on using dirty tactics and distractions with Mickie James. The problem with Becky is she never got her comeuppance. Burying Bayley before the PPV was fine, if Bayley would have "snapped" and beat the crap out of Alexa at the ppv. Heck you still could have found a screwy way to give Alexa the win, just not the way it happened.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jun 5, 2017 22:29:28 GMT -5
Yeah, I mean it's actually a testament to Becky that she has stayed even somewhat over after the dismantling of her heat during the Bliss feud. She got screwed time and time again, but the only heat she got back was on Mickie and never Alexa, and then Alexa turned right around and lost to....Naomi? Naomi was basically a nonentity on SD before that who relied mostly on Otunga putting her over on commentary (a very dubious thing to be sure). Of course the Lynch/Bliss feud on SD was at least somewhat creative and not anywhere near as terrible as the Bayley crap.
I think the shakeup has done some odd things with these women's divisions. I don't entirely know where the SD one is going, kinda depends on who wins the MITB. The only feasible big PPV match the SD side has is Becky/Charlotte, and until recently you'd think the only Raw one is Bayley vs. Sasha. Given both's pitiful current status it's almost light years since they were doing MOTYC in NXT.
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Jiren
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Post by Jiren on Jun 5, 2017 22:38:22 GMT -5
The only way to save Bayley at extreme rules was a Nia interference.
Bayley beats the crap outta Bliss and is going for the kill but Nia comes out and beats up Bayley for a Bliss cover
What happened at the PPV was sheer lunacy
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Post by theironyuppie on Jun 5, 2017 22:43:14 GMT -5
The only way to save Bayley at extreme rules was a Nia interference. Bayley beats the crap outta Bliss and is going for the kill but Nia comes out and beats up Bayley for a Bliss cover What happened at the PPV was sheer lunacy The way they just booked that match on Raw tonight was pretty puzzling, too.
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Post by corndog on Jun 6, 2017 0:39:05 GMT -5
Yeah, I mean it's actually a testament to Becky that she has stayed even somewhat over after the dismantling of her heat during the Bliss feud. She got screwed time and time again, but the only heat she got back was on Mickie and never Alexa, and then Alexa turned right around and lost to....Naomi? Naomi was basically a nonentity on SD before that who relied mostly on Otunga putting her over on commentary (a very dubious thing to be sure). Of course the Lynch/Bliss feud on SD was at least somewhat creative and not anywhere near as terrible as the Bayley crap. I think the shakeup has done some odd things with these women's divisions. I don't entirely know where the SD one is going, kinda depends on who wins the MITB. The only feasible big PPV match the SD side has is Becky/Charlotte, and until recently you'd think the only Raw one is Bayley vs. Sasha. Given both's pitiful current status it's almost light years since they were doing MOTYC in NXT. No doubt the Bliss feud hurt Becky, especially since she was getting really over as champion and not getting the heat back was mind boggling. However, unlike the Bayley feud, Becky wasn't getting buried in segments or promos, she just lost all of the matches due to shenanigans, but never got the clean win like the faces usually do in these types of fueds. I honestly think Vince has completely forgot how to book a wrestling show or just removed/stopped listening to all of the people who actually did.
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Post by theironyuppie on Jun 6, 2017 1:10:12 GMT -5
Yeah, I mean it's actually a testament to Becky that she has stayed even somewhat over after the dismantling of her heat during the Bliss feud. She got screwed time and time again, but the only heat she got back was on Mickie and never Alexa, and then Alexa turned right around and lost to....Naomi? Naomi was basically a nonentity on SD before that who relied mostly on Otunga putting her over on commentary (a very dubious thing to be sure). Of course the Lynch/Bliss feud on SD was at least somewhat creative and not anywhere near as terrible as the Bayley crap. I think the shakeup has done some odd things with these women's divisions. I don't entirely know where the SD one is going, kinda depends on who wins the MITB. The only feasible big PPV match the SD side has is Becky/Charlotte, and until recently you'd think the only Raw one is Bayley vs. Sasha. Given both's pitiful current status it's almost light years since they were doing MOTYC in NXT. No doubt the Bliss feud hurt Becky, especially since she was getting really over as champion and not getting the heat back was mind boggling. However, unlike the Bayley feud, Becky wasn't getting buried in segments or promos, she just lost all of the matches due to shenanigans, but never got the clean win like the faces usually do in these types of fueds. I honestly think Vince has completely forgot how to book a wrestling show or just removed/stopped listening to all of the people who actually did. Its like Creative saw what the Bliss/Becky feud did and decided for Bliss/Bayley they needed to rehash it but made it way more lopsided (so the babyface gets no comebacks in promo segments, never wins, gets beaten down every week and proves Alexa to be 100% right--one or two remarks on 'This Is Your Life' being shit means nothing if Alexa still got entirely rewarded in booking terms), and well, they showed it was possible.
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Abdullah
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Post by Abdullah on Jun 6, 2017 10:35:11 GMT -5
Alexa is pretty much getting AJ Lee's booking during her first title reign and has a lot of the same mannerisms and is doing the often-repeated storyline where the entire women's locker room (rightly) hates the champion.
I can see why the dislike is building. My only surprise is that they didn't build to Bliss vs Jax more. The match last night was brutal.
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Post by theironyuppie on Jun 6, 2017 11:51:32 GMT -5
Alexa is pretty much getting AJ Lee's booking during her first title reign and has a lot of the same mannerisms and is doing the often-repeated storyline where the entire women's locker room (rightly) hates the champion. I can see why the dislike is building. My only surprise is that they didn't build to Bliss vs Jax more. The match last night was brutal. And the crowd didn't give a crap about it either, which should be an issue when its the product of sacrificing a division just to put Alexa front and centre.
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Abdullah
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Post by Abdullah on Jun 6, 2017 12:00:33 GMT -5
Alexa is pretty much getting AJ Lee's booking during her first title reign and has a lot of the same mannerisms and is doing the often-repeated storyline where the entire women's locker room (rightly) hates the champion. I can see why the dislike is building. My only surprise is that they didn't build to Bliss vs Jax more. The match last night was brutal. And the crowd didn't give a crap about it either, which should be an issue when its the product of sacrificing a division just to put Alexa front and centre. Well, I'm sure they would if they built to it more; if they had Nia as Alexa's muscle for a while. But, yeah, it's weird how the simmering Bayley/Banks encore was shoved aside once Alexa joined RAW. I don't really mind. I prefer Bliss to either of them but it does feel like someone changed their mind and we haven't officially heard about it yet.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jun 6, 2017 12:07:36 GMT -5
And the crowd didn't give a crap about it either, which should be an issue when its the product of sacrificing a division just to put Alexa front and centre. Well, I'm sure they would if they built to it more; if they had Nia as Alexa's muscle for a while. But, yeah, it's weird how the simmering Bayley/Banks encore was shoved aside once Alexa joined RAW. I don't really mind. I prefer Bliss to either of them but it does feel like someone changed their mind and we haven't officially heard about it yet. It's not like they were even simmering it other than they are friends... and that's about where the storyline stalled.
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Post by corndog on Jun 6, 2017 12:12:07 GMT -5
Alexa is pretty much getting AJ Lee's booking during her first title reign and has a lot of the same mannerisms and is doing the often-repeated storyline where the entire women's locker room (rightly) hates the champion. I can see why the dislike is building. My only surprise is that they didn't build to Bliss vs Jax more. The match last night was brutal. Yes the booking is similar, but what they represent is actually opposite. AJ was the wrestler amongst the "divas", then the women's revolution happened where we would take the division seriously and it would be built around top workers, not just the pretty faces. Now we have a pretty face dominating a division that is supposed to be taken seriously and not just eye candy, yet the eye candy is dominating. Alexa's big push reeks of Vince/Dunn drooling when they saw her, while Stephanie said something about the women's revolution that they didn't listen to. Just seems kind of odd that she didn't do a whole lot in NXT and then comes to the main roster getting a jet rocket tied to her back.
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Post by theironyuppie on Jun 6, 2017 12:13:10 GMT -5
And the crowd didn't give a crap about it either, which should be an issue when its the product of sacrificing a division just to put Alexa front and centre. Well, I'm sure they would if they built to it more; if they had Nia as Alexa's muscle for a while. But, yeah, it's weird how the simmering Bayley/Banks encore was shoved aside once Alexa joined RAW. I don't really mind. I prefer Bliss to either of them but it does feel like someone changed their mind and we haven't officially heard about it yet. Yeah, I don't understand why they had that segment with Nia wanting the next title shot and being 'friends' with Alexa (which, you know, plot development!), only to not even have her appear on the next three Raws, maybe they feared it'd take away from Alexa burying Bayley (and Mickie) on her own week after week. And yeah, it feels like an abrupt shift, the problem being that it made all of Bayley's previous bad booking completely needless. There was a time when you could argue that with those poor finishes (like Fastlane) they were building a subtle angle of Sasha wanting Bayley to be champion because she didn't see her as a threat, but then it all got thrown out anyway. WWE, people.
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rrh
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Post by rrh on Jun 6, 2017 12:14:27 GMT -5
And the crowd didn't give a crap about it either, which should be an issue when its the product of sacrificing a division just to put Alexa front and centre. Well, I'm sure they would if they built to it more; if they had Nia as Alexa's muscle for a while. But, yeah, it's weird how the simmering Bayley/Banks encore was shoved aside once Alexa joined RAW. They literally did that from one week to the other. The night after Mania, after that 6-women tag Sasha took the title from the ref, only for Bayley to snatch it from her and looking at Sasha confused who just waved it off like she wanted to hand it to her. Then the Shakeup happened and that simmering Bayley/Sasha feud got dropped.
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Post by theironyuppie on Jun 6, 2017 12:19:21 GMT -5
Alexa is pretty much getting AJ Lee's booking during her first title reign and has a lot of the same mannerisms and is doing the often-repeated storyline where the entire women's locker room (rightly) hates the champion. I can see why the dislike is building. My only surprise is that they didn't build to Bliss vs Jax more. The match last night was brutal. Yes the booking is similar, but what they represent is actually opposite. AJ was the wrestler amongst the "divas", then the women's revolution happened where we would take the division seriously and it would be built around top workers, not just the pretty faces. Now we have a pretty face dominating a division that is supposed to be taken seriously and not just eye candy, yet the eye candy is dominating. Alexa's big push reeks of Vince/Dunn drooling when they saw her, while Stephanie said something about the women's revolution that they didn't listen to. Just seems kind of odd that she didn't do a whole lot in NXT and then comes to the main roster getting a jet rocket tied to her back. Good point. And then you add the symbolism of eye candy winning a completely one-sided feud over someone who'd been presented as a wrestler who wouldn't fit in the diva era (Triple H has said as much), it basically works as a signal of intent.
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rrh
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Post by rrh on Jun 6, 2017 12:26:29 GMT -5
Alexa is pretty much getting AJ Lee's booking during her first title reign and has a lot of the same mannerisms and is doing the often-repeated storyline where the entire women's locker room (rightly) hates the champion. I can see why the dislike is building. My only surprise is that they didn't build to Bliss vs Jax more. The match last night was brutal. Yes the booking is similar, but what they represent is actually opposite. AJ was the wrestler amongst the "divas", then the women's revolution happened where we would take the division seriously and it would be built around top workers, not just the pretty faces. Now we have a pretty face dominating a division that is supposed to be taken seriously and not just eye candy, yet the eye candy is dominating. Alexa's big push reeks of Vince/Dunn drooling when they saw her, while Stephanie said something about the women's revolution that they didn't listen to. Just seems kind of odd that she didn't do a whole lot in NXT and then comes to the main roster getting a jet rocket tied to her back. That's exactly it. They are currently making 100 steps back after making 90 forward last year. Promimently featured Mania match, main eventing RAWs and a PPV, big gimmick matches, long and good matches. Presenting them as equal to the men. Making sure the audience treats them seriously And now we are back in the Divas timeline apparently. The, let's say not as skilled, eye candy dominating and being champion. Pretty faces > talent. Short matches. Pointless, silly segments. All it's missing is them bringing Kelly Kelly back as the top face of the division. (Yes this may be a bit overdramatized, but the direction the RAW women's division is heading is worrying to say the least)
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Post by corndog on Jun 6, 2017 12:32:22 GMT -5
Yes the booking is similar, but what they represent is actually opposite. AJ was the wrestler amongst the "divas", then the women's revolution happened where we would take the division seriously and it would be built around top workers, not just the pretty faces. Now we have a pretty face dominating a division that is supposed to be taken seriously and not just eye candy, yet the eye candy is dominating. Alexa's big push reeks of Vince/Dunn drooling when they saw her, while Stephanie said something about the women's revolution that they didn't listen to. Just seems kind of odd that she didn't do a whole lot in NXT and then comes to the main roster getting a jet rocket tied to her back. Good point. And then you add the symbolism of eye candy winning a completely one-sided feud over someone who'd been presented as a wrestler who wouldn't fit in the diva era (Triple H has said as much), it basically works as a signal of intent. I feel like there is more to this than Bayley simply had "heat" backstage, in fact I think this has nothing to do with Bayley personally, but more or less what she represents . I don't want to jump to conclusions, but it feels this is more Vince/Dunn vs HHH/Steph(?). Even if not a power struggle, it certainly is a move away from the women's revolution. Probably why Charlotte was moved to Smackdown in order to both protect her and more easily move in the current direction.
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