Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 244,930
Member is Online
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Sept 21, 2017 8:14:53 GMT -5
...Ooooft. I just....Ooof. Wow. That is not a good sign for WWE. Thankfully for them, it's not like that all the way around yet. Either way the more pictures that keep coming out like this, the more Roman's whole spiel about WWE and Ticket Sales being fantastic just looks more and more ridiculous And I'm aware Roman doesn't work Tuesdays, it doesn't matter, and I'd wager full shots of RAW don't look much better...
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Sept 21, 2017 8:25:55 GMT -5
That's a shocking picture. The empty side of the arena I mean, not Jinder holding the WWE title. The section with the hard cameras is usually tarped off so idiot fans won't mess with the cameras. Can't say for the neighboring sections. I was at Takeover Brooklyn behind two of the cameras and can confirm that they tape them off... but it was only like 3 or 4 rows worth usually. and only half a section... so yeah some of htose tickets aren't sold... but it's nowhere near that many.
|
|
|
Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Sept 21, 2017 8:25:59 GMT -5
I posted a similar message on another board, but it pretty much sums up how I feel...
I just feel that racially-themed gimmicks period, including stereotype characters as well as racist heels, are dated in 2017. I still like Jinder as an overall talent and I want him to succeed (dunno if he should be champ now, but that's a different topic), but stuff like this doesn't help him or Nakamura one bit. Even though the building was half-full, watching it I could tell how badly Jinder and the Singh brothers were dying out there. They were just BOMBING with that crowd. The booing I heard from them didn't feel at all like they were engaged with the show. If anything, it took them out of it.
Vince doesn't strike me as a textbook foaming-at-the-mouth hatemonger, but angles like these and the HHH/Booker T stuff lead me to believe he's clueless and behind the times regarding issues like these. I'm sure he's thinking "boy, this is a great way to get heel heat for my wrestlers!" But times have changed, and angles like these are more off-putting than anything today. If Jinder cut this promo in say, 1987, I can still see there being some controversy but it likely wouldn't have been treated as a big deal. But 2017 crowds think about race, gender, orientation, etc. way more seriously than in the past.
If WWE wants to be inclusive and come off more up-to-date, racist heels aren't the way. We need more minority, gay, female, trans, etc. wrestlers showcased on WWE television where their status as minorities aren't treated like a big deal. Let them be themselves as people, without emphasizing their "otherness". Nakamura's a good example, they were doing great with portraying him as a modern WWE superstar before Jinder started these promos.
|
|
Jiren
Patti Mayonnaise
Hearts Bayformers
Posts: 35,163
|
Post by Jiren on Sept 21, 2017 8:50:23 GMT -5
It was terrible but it didn't piss me off or anything.
I've heard way worse from this company
|
|
|
Post by joeiscool on Sept 21, 2017 8:51:29 GMT -5
I thought it was interesting. He's obviously projecting that other people have racist stereo types, while taking part in them himself.
He's obviously is being a hypocrite, it's an interesting concept, and Jinder is really trying his best, but the material is so flat.
Like why spend 1/2 the promo showing that Shinsuke has the same facial expression, and totally miss the one stereotype everyone hears about asians which is they all look alike?
|
|
trollrogue
Hank Scorpio
Nashville City of Music!!
Posts: 5,614
|
Post by trollrogue on Sept 21, 2017 9:25:57 GMT -5
I thought it was Jinder's best promo by far, his level of confidence was great to see. The stuff in the middle with the repeated pics of Shinsuke's face and the Bollywood Boys' fake laughter dragged on and oonnnnnnn, but I really enjoyed his improv after they started chanting "That's too far!" and he went "if you think that's too far, listen to what I say next... IN MY NATIVE TONGUE OF PUNJABI!!" best heel thing he's done this entire run and it got mega-heat
|
|
|
Post by bootytea on Sept 21, 2017 9:51:17 GMT -5
I didn't mind the promo and actually appreciated a heel being a heel. Its not the typical trying to be cool or edgy, just a disgruntled champion being an ass.
Jinder made those statements because he is deluded in thinking the crowd finds it hilarious, so he made those tasteless jokes as a warning to Shinsuke that the audience will turn on a minority the same way they turned on him.
There have been plenty of racist, murdering, sexual deviant characters on other forms of television, but the minute it happens on WWE you have people virtue signalling. I personally find the whole ordeal silly and won't overeact. I understand if someone doesn't like it, but its when people act all high and mighty about a goofy wrestling promo that kinda annoys me.
Its the same thing with people that say its WWE's responsibility for the discriminated individual to defeat the racist each feud when we know in reality this isn't always the case.
I'm a minority by the way. Not that it should matter, but I thought I'd point that out. Lol.
|
|
saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
|
Post by saintpat on Sept 21, 2017 9:51:31 GMT -5
I don't seem to recall any backlash at James Gandolfini and The Sopranos writers because the character was a racist ... a MUCH more blatant racist than this.
|
|
|
Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Sept 21, 2017 10:02:13 GMT -5
I thought it was interesting. He's obviously projecting that other people have racist stereo types, while taking part in them himself. He's obviously is being a hypocrite, it's an interesting concept, and Jinder is really trying his best, but the material is so flat. Like why spend 1/2 the promo showing that Shinsuke has the same facial expression, and totally miss the one stereotype everyone hears about asians which is they all look alike?Ok, that line? I can guarantee you that would have gone over like a lead balloon. The fans were already being turned off big time, but if Jinder went there I can see people getting up and leaving. And I wouldn't blame them. There are more people who are bothered by this sort of heel heat then there are those who aren't, and it's not out of "virtue signalling". I can't see any way to fix the promo without just thinking "don't book it at all".
|
|
|
Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Sept 21, 2017 10:15:15 GMT -5
I don't seem to recall any backlash at James Gandolfini and The Sopranos writers because the character was a racist ... a MUCH more blatant racist than this. Sopranos doesn't have a now extremely thin veneer of being presented as a real sport. I suppose that's the main difference.
|
|
Big Poppa Pumpkin
Dennis Stamp
I'll be in the back polishing............ my belt.
Posts: 4,987
|
Post by Big Poppa Pumpkin on Sept 21, 2017 10:19:03 GMT -5
stuff like this just emphasises what a weird position WWE occupies on the entertainment spectrum, I guess, as far as race goes - when you present your show as if its real life the game changes. Hence, bad dudes on Sons of Anarchy can drop racial slurs left, right and centre and nobody bats an eyelid, heel wrestling champion makes racist jokes and people are outraged. Its weird, it doesn't bother me personally, but I kind of understand it.
I actually kind of like Jinder's character because he's so easy to dislike, but in general wrestling audiences prefer a different kind of bad guy.
edit: Wasn't there something like this with Shelton Benjamin and Yoshi Tatsu before? What was the reaction like then?
|
|
saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
|
Post by saintpat on Sept 21, 2017 10:25:19 GMT -5
I don't seem to recall any backlash at James Gandolfini and The Sopranos writers because the character was a racist ... a MUCH more blatant racist than this. Sopranos doesn't have a now extremely thin veneer of being presented as a real sport. I suppose that's the main difference. So the idea is that kayfabe is still alive and these are real people in real athletic competition and what they say and do is actually who they are in real life? And yet people are also insinuating that the writers are racist? So if someone is holding onto this 'thin veneer,' how do they explain that there are writers for this TV show like there are for every other TV show?
|
|
|
Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Sept 21, 2017 10:32:50 GMT -5
Sopranos doesn't have a now extremely thin veneer of being presented as a real sport. I suppose that's the main difference. So the idea is that kayfabe is still alive and these are real people in real athletic competition and what they say and do is actually who they are in real life? And yet people are also insinuating that the writers are racist? So if someone is holding onto this 'thin veneer,' how do they explain that there are writers for this TV show like there are for every other TV show? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
|
|
|
Post by hossfan on Sept 21, 2017 10:36:00 GMT -5
I think Jinder is guilty more of playing the race card than being a racist himself. What he is doing is accusing the WWE Universe of feeling that way about himself and Nakamura. He thinks people hate him because he's different, and not because he talks about how America sucks or that he cheats to win.
As for it going 'too far', well that's subjective: telling someone his kids would have been better off if he had died in a helicopter trash certainly crosses a few lines (and is a pretty cheap way to get heat as well), yet that false scripted statement doesn't get near the outrage Jinder's spiel does, and yet everything he says is meant to be just as untrue as Owens's. What's the difference? Do people worry that there's legit truth to what Jinder says?
|
|
|
Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Sept 21, 2017 10:44:54 GMT -5
I think Jinder is guilty more of playing the race card than being a racist himself. What he is doing is accusing the WWE Universe of feeling that way about himself and Nakamura. He thinks people hate him because he's different, and not because he talks about how America sucks or that he cheats to win. As for it going 'too far', well that's subjective: telling someone his kids would have been better off if he had died in a helicopter trash certainly crosses a few lines (and is a pretty cheap way to get heat as well), yet that false scripted statement doesn't get near the outrage Jinder's spiel does, and yet everything he says is meant to be just as untrue as Owens's. What's the difference? Do people worry that there's legit truth to what Jinder says? While I wasn't a fan of the helicopter comment either, for me this is a situation where WWE should just listen to their audience. If fans are chanting that a segment went too far for them, then the segment went too far. I think they should scrap the racial undertones entirely, and if they chanted the same thing at Owens's comment, I'd push for the same as well. Were I WWE, I have two options. I could dig my heels in the dirt and complain about how I felt the audience was being oversensitive (which I certainly don't actually believe), or I could abide by their wishes and avoid going down that route with my heels.
|
|
|
Post by Alice Syndrome on Sept 21, 2017 10:47:05 GMT -5
One, no. His job is to entertain. That's the entire purpose of wrestling. If you're being boring, you have FAILED as an entertainer. The heel's job is to wrestle a style during the heat segment and the hopespot/cutoff segment that makes the face look good when the face gets to his shine segment. If a heel is doing cool, fast, flippy stuff that pops the crowd, he will make the face look less good. Hi, actual former heel wrestler here. The job of a heel in ring isn't to be boring, it's to set the pace of the match. If someone tells you to go out and work 15 minutes, then you go out there and lead the match for about 12 of those minutes, plus false comebacks and the finish. Work a leg, be a tall person, flip off the crowd, pull sneaky shit or whatever, but Don't be boring.
|
|
|
Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Sept 21, 2017 10:47:48 GMT -5
I think Jinder is guilty more of playing the race card than being a racist himself. What he is doing is accusing the WWE Universe of feeling that way about himself and Nakamura. He thinks people hate him because he's different, and not because he talks about how America sucks or that he cheats to win. As for it going 'too far', well that's subjective: telling someone his kids would have been better off if he had died in a helicopter trash certainly crosses a few lines (and is a pretty cheap way to get heat as well), yet that false scripted statement doesn't get near the outrage Jinder's spiel does, and yet everything he says is meant to be just as untrue as Owens's. What's the difference? Do people worry that there's legit truth to what Jinder says? While I wasn't a fan of the helicopter comment either, for me this is a situation where WWE should just listen to their audience. If fans are chanting that a segment went too far for them, then the segment went too far. I think they should scrap the racial undertones entirely, and if they chanted the same thing at Owens's comment, I'd push for the same as well. Were I WWE, I have two options. I could dig my heels in the dirt and complain about how I felt the audience was being oversensitive (which I certainly don't actually believe), or I could abide by their wishes and avoid going down that route with my heels. The fact that, at least last I checked, this hasn't been uploaded to YouTube yet leads me to believe that they realized pretty quick that they had f***ed up. If SD was still a taped show, I would be surprised if they cut the whole thing or re-shot a different promo later in the show
|
|
|
Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 21, 2017 10:58:33 GMT -5
Cheapest type of heat ever. Jinder became a parody of himself.
Saddest part of all? I think Vince is the one who write Jinder's promos. McMahon thought it was ok to say that line, just as Vince thought it would be cool for New Day to be dropping dices during their entrance, or think that it would be ok for himself to say the n word in a segment.
|
|
|
Post by Bungle on Sept 21, 2017 11:00:44 GMT -5
Surprising this is the one "that is too far",when it's basically a comedic villain bad promo.
The more "subtle" racist stereotypes are a bigger problem to me.
I hope some day foreigner wrestlers are just booked the same way that every other wrestler.
|
|
|
Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 21, 2017 11:00:57 GMT -5
The heel's job is to wrestle a style during the heat segment and the hopespot/cutoff segment that makes the face look good when the face gets to his shine segment. If a heel is doing cool, fast, flippy stuff that pops the crowd, he will make the face look less good. Hi, actual former heel wrestler here. The job of a heel in ring isn't to be boring, it's to set the pace of the match. If someone tells you to go out and work 15 minutes, then you go out there and lead the match for about 12 of those minutes, plus false comebacks and the finish. Work a leg, flip off the crowd, pull sneaky shit or whatever, but Don't be boring. If I was a heel I would just do a 15 minutes bear hug spot because I would probably gas out walking to the ring.
|
|