Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Sept 3, 2018 12:14:48 GMT -5
Some randomness from my mind on this whole thing: 1. For those dismissing the idea Vince/WWE was concerned about this show, I guarantee that this very much put a lot of people in that company on alert. Yeah, they've acknowledged ROH and New Japan in the past, but up until extremely recently, ROH was still a blip on the cultural radar and New Japan was "over there." If this leads to anything, and from the looks of ROH going "all in" (sorry, had to) on the MSG show, it is...it changes the business landscape completely. Wrestlers and crew will have legitimate new places to find work - GOOD work - without all of them scrambling for the 3-4 spots in Japan that might be open. There's going to be fights for sponsors, fights for space on the toy shelves in stores, etc. I mean, hell, WWE has been awkwardly struggling to figure out how to work social media since the days of Tout, and here comes a bunch of upstarts who pull off a 10k show almost completely through social media? It's a new world, and the old guard is definitely nervous about that. Comfortable ruts are about to get uncomfortable. 2. Not every wrestling show is going to be, or has to be, geared towards pleasing every single kind of audience. If that were the case, lucha libre would be long dead. Even before this show, WWE has been trying to get all big time players under their umbrella to basically make sure no other company gets big. All In is basically what they were trying to avoid.I'm sure in a personal manner ,as a fan, Vince really enjoyed All In. Doesnt mean he doesnt know people will see it as an alternative
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Facetious
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Post by Facetious on Sept 3, 2018 13:27:14 GMT -5
I'm finally getting around to watching the broadcast of this and I'll give Jericho props. He has spent a year trying to get the right body type to cosplay as Pentagon Jr. Dude is dedicated to his craft!
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 3, 2018 13:48:02 GMT -5
Finally got to watch the rest of the show today on NJPW World since I knew I could Chromecast from there.
One word for it: Fun.
Trying to watch this as a "regular" super show by another promotion wouldn't work: most of the time with a Wrestlemania, a Wrestle Kingdom, an Ultima Lucha, or Final Battle, etc., you'd want to see long term storylines that have had lots of in-ring and TV time to get over and evolve and hopefully shape the psychology of the matches once they're done. In this case, you have wrestlers from different primary promotions coming in and the bulk of the storytelling being done on a weekly 20 minute YouTube show; trying to do the types of stories done at those other shows was just never in the cards, nor should it have been. Free from those constraints the focus could be on putting on a show that was pure fun, and it succeeded.
Pre-show was solid: I marked for the Rocky outfits by SCU, and the battle royal was very nicely done; I totally forgot about Flip until the very last second.
Opener was a fun showcase and it was great to see a guy like Cross finally work a huge show like that stateside, same for Daniels in the next match. Speaking of which, damn, points to Amell, he held his own.
The women did a really nice job with their time, makes me hope if they do this again there'll be at least a couple women's matches so more names can get on there. Tessa really is a freak of an athlete. I'm not big on the "everybody hug and celebrate after the match" spot, but again, it's a super card and kind of "non-canon", so I don't really mind it too much.
NWA title match did a good job of creating a big fight feeling; points to Aldis for carrying himself like a top champ, which is not always an easy thing to pull off. The match itself wasn't perfect by any stretch, felt like the two had some timing issues and didn't completely gel, but they made sure the storytelling made up for some that, and yeah, it was just really nice to think of it as a tribute to Dusty, too.
Street fight was insane, and I mean that in a good way. I've grown to love watching Janela's demented brand of spectacle and insanity, and Hangman's growing insanity was enjoyable, as expected. Some of the spots were over the top, but that's expected of a Janela brawl.
As for the dick druids...my girlfriend and I marked the hell out. I keep seeing people crap on it, but if you watch BTE, which is what this show was based around, it's really the only ending that made any sense. I mean...it's "FAMOUS DICK WRESTLER" Joey Ryan coming back from the dead in front of 10,000 people, how could his apotheosis NOT be a procession of walking penises that carry his "murderer" away in a send-up of the Undertaker? Again, this was a show based around BTE, its tickets sold largely on the strength of BTE, so, yeah, that's what you do to pay it off to a crowd that clearly wanted to see something crazy like that.
Flip/Lethal was solid, and I loved seeing Lanny be the one to get Lethal into Macho mode. Jay and Flip literally did Savage/Steamboat spot-for-spot for a couple of minutes there as an homage, before doing the multi-elbow/Warrior and Hogan psyche up spot. But major points to Jay, dude told a really good low key story of him growing out of Black Machismo even as he celebrated the character; the multiple elbows not getting the job done is an homage to the WM 7 spot where Savage had "lost his powers" due to his delusions and insanity as the Macho King, and then Jay was sure to win using the combination of moves that have made Jay Lethal the man, not the gimmick, into a top wrestler...so even if people don't like the Lethal Injection, it served the story.
To go back to my point about the women's match, I didn't really mind Kenny and Penta killing the shit out of each other, either: it's a dream match between two of the most currently OP guys in the industry, why shouldn't it turn into a cartoon where they pretty much have to shove dynamite down one another's throats to win? It's the type of situation where going for pure spectacle isn't unwarranted, given that there's every chance this will be a one-off and they want to just toss everything plus the kitchen sink.
I hope Arthur and Trevor show up on next BTE with their fingers taped up.
Too bad Okada/Marty went over its time, but otherwise a perfectly cromulent match with the "Marty shows he can hang with the big boys" working as necessary. Always love how much fun Okada is visibly having when he works in the US, and I'm hoping that some of the build to this was being honest with the notion of Marty getting back into his more overtly Villainous ways going forward.
Hot damn, main event knew it didn't have much time, so they just went for it. On the bright side the match was still a rush, and now I just really, really want to see Ibushi vs. Fenix.
So yeah, this isn't the type of show I'd rate as a tour de force with the emotional impact of something like Dominion or whatever; that's also not the type of show it could realistically be. This was much more a celebration of the current non-WWE scene, mixed with the BTE goofiness of their storylines, all with an emphasis on having fun with the whole thing. The crowd was great, people were clearly into what they were seeing, and I'm bummed I had to give up my hopes to head out to see it thanks to some other financial commitments that have popped up; hopefully if there's one next year I'll see what I can do. Given that this was the first time around it's hard to complain too much about the camera work, the announcing, and other technical stuff, as the whole thing came off feeling big and important, so yeah, just a lot of fun all around.
I WILL still complain, though, about my live stream being complete shit off of Honor Club; worst I've ever experienced, and it meant I went into finishing it today having some stuff spoiled. Ugh.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Sept 3, 2018 14:01:20 GMT -5
I will admit, the only part of the show that left a real sour taste in my mouth was Penta losing and Jericho desperately trying to elbow his way into a seat at the cool, young kid's table. Other than that, great show.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Sept 3, 2018 14:04:43 GMT -5
Finally got to watch the rest of the show today on NJPW World since I knew I could Chromecast from there. One word for it: Fun. Trying to watch this as a "regular" super show by another promotion wouldn't work: most of the time with a Wrestlemania, a Wrestle Kingdom, an Ultima Lucha, or Final Battle, etc., you'd want to see long term storylines that have had lots of in-ring and TV time to get over and evolve and hopefully shape the psychology of the matches once they're done. In this case, you have wrestlers from different primary promotions coming in and the bulk of the storytelling being done on a weekly 20 minute YouTube show; trying to do the types of stories done at those other shows was just never in the cards, nor should it have been. Free from those constraints the focus could be on putting on a show that was pure fun, and it succeeded. Pre-show was solid: I marked for the Rocky outfits by SCU, and the battle royal was very nicely done; I totally forgot about Flip until the very last second. Oh cool, the pre-show is in New Japan World? English commentary too?
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 3, 2018 14:11:09 GMT -5
Finally got to watch the rest of the show today on NJPW World since I knew I could Chromecast from there. One word for it: Fun. Trying to watch this as a "regular" super show by another promotion wouldn't work: most of the time with a Wrestlemania, a Wrestle Kingdom, an Ultima Lucha, or Final Battle, etc., you'd want to see long term storylines that have had lots of in-ring and TV time to get over and evolve and hopefully shape the psychology of the matches once they're done. In this case, you have wrestlers from different primary promotions coming in and the bulk of the storytelling being done on a weekly 20 minute YouTube show; trying to do the types of stories done at those other shows was just never in the cards, nor should it have been. Free from those constraints the focus could be on putting on a show that was pure fun, and it succeeded. Pre-show was solid: I marked for the Rocky outfits by SCU, and the battle royal was very nicely done; I totally forgot about Flip until the very last second. Oh cool, the pre-show is in New Japan World? English commentary too? Sadly no; I should've clarified, I got to watch the pre-show on Saturday since I get WGN on Fios. Looks like Zero Hour was exclusive to WGN, so nobody else gets it. That said, yeah, the PPV section of the show is on NJPW World with the full English commentary and no missing music.
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Chainsaw
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Post by Chainsaw on Sept 3, 2018 14:57:23 GMT -5
I will admit, the only part of the show that left a real sour taste in my mouth was Penta losing and Jericho desperately trying to elbow his way into a seat at the cool, young kid's table. Other than that, great show. Honestly, I thought it was a nice surprise. Jericho hadn't been on anyone's radar in regards to this show, hasn't been promoing Kenny AFAIK, and when the lights went out, I thought the Firing Squad was going to go after Omega, but we get Jericho pretty much announcing his intentions towards Omega and renewing their feud(granted, it's really just to promote his cruise, but hustlers gotta hustle). And the fact that he had to get all this in and then fly to Kentucky for a concert makes it quite an effort for him.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Sept 3, 2018 15:02:59 GMT -5
It will work as a one off, but I don’t see it viable as a long term type of thing. I'm not replying to you specifically, Akeem, but I'd like to use your comment as a jump-off point of conversation. Everything I'm about to write I say as someone who didn't watch All In and who also only occasionally followed the online buzz about the show. In hindsight, a show that had 9 months of time to prepare, that mobilized fans via social media, was held in an airport-accessible city like Chicago, and that featured a hefty amount of indy star power, it's surprising that anyone would think that All In wouldn't be successful, especially as a one-off (so far). If people are legitimately comparing this show to something like the first Nitro, I think they are missing the point of why Nitro was a game-changer for its time. The first Nitro is important because it was the first episode, because it went head-to-head with WWF TV, because Eric Bischoff snatched Lex Luger away from Vince McMahon, etc. But I think the second Nitro is way more important, despite the lack of attention that episode gets compared to the series premiere, because it demonstrated that this show was going to be sustainable, that people like Bischoff and Ted Turner were going to commit to it for a significant amount of time and dollars. Can Cody Rhodes and the Young Bucks do All In 2? Absolutely. Could it be as successful as All In 1? Probably. More successful? Maybe. Is All In a threat to WWE? Insofar that a segment of wrestling fans are hungry for different types of wrestling styles and stars that WWE can't and won't provide. Most people view this event from a glass-is-half-full perspective, i.e. it did its 10K attendance, it was well-promoted, it used social media in a way that WWE really can't, it showed that there's a demographic of niche wrestling fandom willing to spend big money on non-WWE shows, that it was fun because it's a non-mainstream form of wrestling entertainment, and so on. For those reasons, Rhodes and the Bucks absolutely and unequivocally deserve all the credit for saying they were going to do something, committing to doing it, then actually doing it. However, and again I say this as someone who hasn't (yet) watched All In, I wonder what a glass-half-empty perspective about All In would look like. That the 'wrestling business' has contracted so much that a one-off indy show that pops 10K in attendance is touted as the Next Big Thing? The desert between WWE and All In is vast, at least in terms of consistency of running wrestling shows. But the desert between wrestling in 2018 and the territory days is also vast in terms of lapsed fans who no longer pay to watch wrestling every week or month, even if the attendance for such shows was smaller overall than modern shows, but much more consistent in terms of attendance than what WWE even does. Modern wrestling can't and won't ever go back to the 70s or the 80s, despite the desires of Jim Cornette, but I don't know if we're confusing the success of All In and ROH's upcoming show for that period in wrestling history which there was more competition and equality between promotions either. One last point: I don't doubt that people liked All In or found it fun. I once saw an indy show a couple of years ago that tried to do what Rhodes and the Bucks did, albeit on a smaller scale. And I thought that show was fun, like people found All In to be, in many cases because it was most definitely not like a WWE show. But I also said to myself that I wouldn't want to watch that kind of wrestling every week or month because it would tire and go stale. That show was both fun and unique, or fun because it was unique, or unique because it was fun. That was the draw. Would people, then, be as interested in and excited by All In 8 if the booking and content of the show stayed the same as All In 1? In what ways is All In viable and sustainable as a show and a brand? That is, if Rhodes and the Bucks are even interested in making All In into a regular deal.
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Post by cabbageboy on Sept 3, 2018 15:08:45 GMT -5
I think Jericho went to Kansas, not Kentucky. I'm bewildered anyone went into this show thinking Kenny Omega might lose to Pentagon. 2ColdMack, were you also upset when Penta lost to Sami Callihan on Impact recently in the Mexican Death Match?
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 3, 2018 15:40:51 GMT -5
Regarding where this all goes: if there is an "All In 8" or whatever, it's highly doubtful future cards would be exactly like this one.
Again, this card was mostly based around the BTE crew and was a chance to showcase varying styles and emphasize the fun aspects of the industry outside of WWE. The biggest "blood feud" involved was over Hangman murdering a famous dick wrestler and having to face another wrestler named Joey whose character is that he IS a dick.
That said, I think the BTE guys are aware that, if they want to do this again, simply repeating what they did here likely won't cut it. I mean, maybe over the next couple of years they do something like run NYC one year and LA the next and keep it pretty close in spirit to what they did here, but yeah, at a certain point the allure of "indy supershow with star power behind it" won't be enough.
At that point I think you enter into the possibility of greater coordination with various other promotions to hype the event up with bigger, more developed feuds. I don't know what that would look like, exactly, but with the landscape as it currently is most promotions seem to have gotten the idea that they're better off working together than pretending they're all islands unto themselves, the way things would've been done in the old days before the internet.
Basically, things evolve, and we can't really project where the industry will be in the next five years or whatever. I do think the BTE guys seem very much of the mind that they don't want to be static in how they do business and present themselves, so I doubt they'd allow their pet project here to go stale so long as they could help it.
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Fundertaker
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Post by Fundertaker on Sept 3, 2018 15:50:39 GMT -5
and New Japan was "over there." And "over there" has been taking care of itself!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 16:00:09 GMT -5
I will admit, the only part of the show that left a real sour taste in my mouth was Penta losing and Jericho desperately trying to elbow his way into a seat at the cool, young kid's table. Other than that, great show. Honestly, I thought it was a nice surprise. Jericho hadn't been on anyone's radar in regards to this show, hasn't been promoing Kenny AFAIK, and when the lights went out, I thought the Firing Squad was going to go after Omega, but we get Jericho pretty much announcing his intentions towards Omega and renewing their feud(granted, it's really just to promote his cruise, but hustlers gotta hustle). And the fact that he had to get all this in and then fly to Kentucky for a concert makes it quite an effort for him. Jericho also deserves a spot at the "cool kid's table" if it were up to me. I know he's not everyone's favorite person and he's a bit of a ham but in terms of his role in the alternative wrestling boom I'd say he's a pretty big cog in that wheel.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Sept 3, 2018 16:00:18 GMT -5
In hindsight, a show that had 9 months of time to prepare, that mobilized fans via social media, was held in an airport-accessible city like Chicago, and that featured a hefty amount of indy star power, it's surprising that anyone would think that All In wouldn't be successful, especially as a one-off (so far). Okay, I'll bite: If it's that surprising that anyone would think it wouldn't work...then why did it take two and a half decades for someone to pull it off? Let's look at a couple of things: 1. Historically and traditionally, social media has not been kind to advertising wrestling shows. Promoters still had to advertise locally, put up flyers, run commercials on TV or radio or the like. Those trying to get crowds strictly through Facebook, Twitter, Youtube and the like have traditionally failed and failed hard. 2. All In changed that. They sold out an entire show in 30 minutes with only one match booked and it was all done through social media. That is an entirely new thing for this business. That is absolutely a game changer. It proved it could be done. It is literally the first time it has been proved it could be done. I have to be honest - anyone who's looking back at this nonchalantly like it was no big doesn't grasp fully how the business side of this industry really works. This changed everything, and we're already starting to see evidence of the fallout. WGN is actively in the game again as a potential carrier, and the corporate money men behind ROH and New Japan saw this happening and started taking bigger strides into actual growth via the MSG show. And scariest part to the WWE is that we just witnessed ROH, New Japan, CMLL, Lucha Underground, AAA, Impact, the NWA and even Global Force all come together and work harmoniously without public ego. This is big. This is, legitimately, really big.
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Post by eJm on Sept 3, 2018 16:33:42 GMT -5
I feel the WGN part is something people are easily ignoring too.
I literally could not think of a time when either WCW or WWE weren’t on the Superstation in some capacity even for a short term thing. They wanted wrestling for ages but nobody was really biting, TNA said no years ago.
But a lot of people saw talent like Jordynne Grace, Ethan Page, the Best Friends, Rocky Romero, Brian Cage etc on a channel that has a 77m reach and it wasn’t from WWE. That’s crazy.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Sept 3, 2018 16:40:33 GMT -5
I feel the WGN part is something people are easily ignoring too. I literally could not think of a time when either WCW or WWE weren’t on the Superstation in some capacity even for a short term thing. They wanted wrestling for ages but nobody was really biting, TNA said no years ago. But a lot of people saw talent like Jordynne Grace, Ethan Page, the Best Friends, Rocky Romero, Brian Cage etc on a channel that has a 77m reach and it wasn’t from WWE. That’s crazy. When should we have ratings for Zero Hour in? I know WWE's usually show up the next day on here, but with it being a weekend/holiday, I'm guessing tomorrow? They'll be interesting to see.
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Facetious
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Post by Facetious on Sept 3, 2018 16:44:05 GMT -5
I will admit, the only part of the show that left a real sour taste in my mouth was Penta losing and Jericho desperately trying to elbow his way into a seat at the cool, young kid's table. Other than that, great show. Honestly, I thought it was a nice surprise. Jericho hadn't been on anyone's radar in regards to this show, hasn't been promoing Kenny AFAIK, and when the lights went out, I thought the Firing Squad was going to go after Omega, but we get Jericho pretty much announcing his intentions towards Omega and renewing their feud(granted, it's really just to promote his cruise, but hustlers gotta hustle). And the fact that he had to get all this in and then fly to Kentucky for a concert makes it quite an effort for him. I was there and the crowd was deafening for it. Everyone thought Tama was coming out and Jericho was a genuinely great surprise. And I'm tired of him tbh.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Sept 3, 2018 16:51:37 GMT -5
Honestly, I thought it was a nice surprise. Jericho hadn't been on anyone's radar in regards to this show, hasn't been promoing Kenny AFAIK, and when the lights went out, I thought the Firing Squad was going to go after Omega, but we get Jericho pretty much announcing his intentions towards Omega and renewing their feud(granted, it's really just to promote his cruise, but hustlers gotta hustle). And the fact that he had to get all this in and then fly to Kentucky for a concert makes it quite an effort for him. Jericho also deserves a spot at the "cool kid's table" if it were up to me. I know he's not everyone's favorite person and he's a bit of a ham but in terms of his role in the alternative wrestling boom I'd say he's a pretty big cog in that wheel. Because of my interests I often think of wrestling and metal along the same lines. Jericho is the Lamb Of God or Hatebreed of wrestling; always reliable, seems to consistently come up with a new trick or two, and while they may not be THE DRAW, a bill with them and a fresh young act will both sell tickets and give credibility to the younger act.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Sept 3, 2018 16:54:40 GMT -5
I feel the WGN part is something people are easily ignoring too. I literally could not think of a time when either WCW or WWE weren’t on the Superstation in some capacity even for a short term thing. They wanted wrestling for ages but nobody was really biting, TNA said no years ago. But a lot of people saw talent like Jordynne Grace, Ethan Page, the Best Friends, Rocky Romero, Brian Cage etc on a channel that has a 77m reach and it wasn’t from WWE. That’s crazy. Doesn't Sinclair own WGN or were going to have it until the deal with Tribune fell through? I think the plan may have been to put ROH on it now that they are seriously investing in the promotion.
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Post by eJm on Sept 3, 2018 17:01:25 GMT -5
I feel the WGN part is something people are easily ignoring too. I literally could not think of a time when either WCW or WWE weren’t on the Superstation in some capacity even for a short term thing. They wanted wrestling for ages but nobody was really biting, TNA said no years ago. But a lot of people saw talent like Jordynne Grace, Ethan Page, the Best Friends, Rocky Romero, Brian Cage etc on a channel that has a 77m reach and it wasn’t from WWE. That’s crazy. Doesn't Sinclair own WGN or were going to have it until the deal with Tribune fell through? I think the plan may have been to put ROH on it now that they are seriously investing in the promotion. Last bit of news seemed like the FCC are either going to stall or cancel the Sinclair/Tribune deal since they’re showing concern. Edit: My mistake, the deal officially died early last month.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Sept 3, 2018 17:07:09 GMT -5
Doesn't Sinclair own WGN or were going to have it until the deal with Tribune fell through? I think the plan may have been to put ROH on it now that they are seriously investing in the promotion. Last bit of news seemed like the FCC are either going to stall or cancel the Sinclair/Tribune deal since they’re showing concern. Edit: My mistake, the deal officially died early last month. Yeah and I heard that Tribune was going to sue Sinclair as well
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