20yrs ago - Bischoff on Tag wrestling, J.R in WCW, Cornette

[héad.casé]

Regarding the tag team division: “I’m not a big fan of the tag team division. There’s just not enough well established tag combinations out there to provide a competitive arena at this point. Certainly the Steiner Brothers are at the top of the list of tag teams anywhere in the world. Harlem Heat is also an incredibly effective combination. Unfortunately, with the amount of programming we have to produce, I’m not sure keeping the tag division intact as we know it is the best thing to do for our business, or the people involved. I’m not sure, quite frankly, what I will do with the tag team division, whether to abandon it, or to shore it up with talent from around the world.”

•Regarding Jim Ross and Jim Cornette’s recent comments about him: “I’ve worked with Jim Ross. Jim Ross worked with WCW for a long time in a senior management position, very similar to the one he has now, and he was responsible in part for some of the largest and most embarrassing losses this division has had to endure. I’m sure that it’s hard for him to deal honestly with the fact that his track record here at WCW from a business point of view can only be considered a dismal failure, and that after he departed this company began to grow and prosper. I’m not suggesting that Jim Ross is solely responsible, but he was by his own admission, an integral part of senior management here at that time. I know first hand that many of the creative decisions made here were made by Jim Ross. As far as Jim Cornette is concerned, I think the industry has passed him by. I think he’s a small fish in a little pond that is quickly becoming a shot glass. I hope he has a long and successful relationship with the WWF.”

•On whether he is surprised by Nitro’s success: “I can’t honestly say I expected to average 4.0s the way we have been. I really did believe we could average in the mid- to high-3’s. Clearly, now the question is how high is up, because I still think there is room to grow. One thing I think needs to be pointed out when you talk about the success is that it has not come at the expense of the WWF. This is a very important point. I would venture to say that the WWF prior to the launch of Nitro, that their arena attendance is higher now than it was two years ago. This is an important point when you look at the kind of public spin that poor little Vince McMahon is pursuing while trying to position himself as the little independent businessman being beat up upon by big, bad WCW.”

www.pwtorch.com/site/2017/12/15/20-years-ago-bischoff-takes-digs-poor-little-vince-mcmahon-dismal-failure-jim-ross-wcw-track-record-cornette-industry-passed/

Someone should tweet this to Bisch and see if he still stands by all this 20 years later.

[corndog]

Some interesting stuff here and I bet Bischoff would stand by it today. The tag team division was easily the weakest division in WCW at the time, and outside of the teams he named, there really wasn't any full time tag teams to build around

He was pretty tough on Jim, but I suppose Eric saw more of the business side of it and while the wrestling was great, it wasn't financially successful. Bischoff gets a lot of crap around here, but he did turn WCW's business around completely and even gained profit despite spending a lot of money.

His point on Jim Cornette was spot on and even more exposed today.

The last point on WWF was true. WWF was at it's lowest in 1995 and while still lagging behind WCW at this point, business had gone up since the debut of Nitro. WCW's success really gave Vince the kick in the ass he needed and forced him to get with the times.

[mizerable]

Why wouldn't he stand by it? I think he was being pretty honest about what he saw. The thing about WWF was spot on.

[The Thread Barbi]

Eric has the vision to step back and see the wider picture. When he's on form, he's a better businessman than Vince McMahon.

Problem is, he got sucked into the carny world by Hogan and crew. He gave the inmates the keys and they distorted his vision. See TNA.

I think if he was controlled by Ted Turner and held accountable, thereby leading a tight ship and staying vastly away from booking, WCW would last longer than it did.

[OVO 40 hunched over like he 80]

Dec 16, 2017 15:43:02 GMT -5 The Thread Barbi said:

Eric has the vision to step back and see the wider picture. When he's on form, he's a better businessman than Vince McMahon.

Problem is, he got sucked into the carny world by Hogan and crew. He gave the inmates the keys and they distorted his vision. See TNA.

I think if he was controlled by Ted Turner and held accountable, thereby leading a tight ship and staying vastly away from booking, WCW would last longer than it did.

That and the f***er can't balance a checkbook.

[jimmyjames]

I don't see why he wouldn't agree with what he said. He was completely accurate about the WCW tag team division and about WWF and Vince, and his comments about Cornette sound like they were said recently, not 20 years ago.

[sfvega]

Dec 16, 2017 15:43:02 GMT -5 The Thread Barbi said:

Eric has the vision to step back and see the wider picture. When he's on form, he's a better businessman than Vince McMahon.

Problem is, he got sucked into the carny world by Hogan and crew. He gave the inmates the keys and they distorted his vision. See TNA.

I think if he was controlled by Ted Turner and held accountable, thereby leading a tight ship and staying vastly away from booking, WCW would last longer than it did.

I think Bischoff made a number of big, bold, forward-thinking moves that all ended up being a part of his demise. It's kind of like any corrupt-a-wish thread. Like, you get Hulk Hogan the biggest fish in wrestling, but his contract is absolutely insane and allows him to screw up big matches. You get two of the biggest FAs in the business, but they both use going to your promotion as a place to coast and get drunk. You get a prime time slot on one of the biggest cable networks of that era, but now you have to deal with corporate stiffs who control what you can and can't put on TV.

The overpaying flat out caught up with him. He was forward-thinking, but not forward-thinking enough to see that the wrestling bubble doesn't keep getting bigger and bigger always. But at the same time, outside of even the overspending, everything that he did to get to the top of the mountain came at a price that would be a piece of the undoing at the end of all of it.

Bischoff thinks he made a lot of great moves and a few mistakes. The IWC mostly seems to think he made a lot of great mistakes and a few great moves. But in reality, he actually made a lot of good moves that turned bad years later.

[efarns]

For all the grief Bischoff gets, his problem in WCW was too much success too quickly. If you listen to Tony Schiavone, WCW was always poorly run. They weren't equipped to produce seven hours of TV every week and run the business side. Eric got burnt out trying to keep on top of it all.

[Deleted]

Sam Muchnick's St Louis territory didn't recognize a tag team championship. I don't think it's too fringe of a view

[corndog]

Dec 16, 2017 15:43:02 GMT -5 The Thread Barbi said:

Eric has the vision to step back and see the wider picture. When he's on form, he's a better businessman than Vince McMahon.

Problem is, he got sucked into the carny world by Hogan and crew. He gave the inmates the keys and they distorted his vision. See TNA.

I think if he was controlled by Ted Turner and held accountable, thereby leading a tight ship and staying vastly away from booking, WCW would last longer than it did.

Bischoff's vision was incredible, he had some ridiculously good ideas in Nitro and the nWo, but he never thought of where things would end up. Great examples are Hogan/Sting and the nWo itself. Although creative control with the top nWo guys probably played a big part.

One thing that put Bischoff above Vince was he didn't just work in a bubble with one set style. Nitro was so good(I think it ages better than Raw from the same era), because he had a little bit of everything and catered to the entire audience. Whether it was the indy riffic, high flying cruiserweights, the more technical mid-card or the storyline driven main event, it was all different. Vince always seems to have one set direction for the entire roster and doesn't really differentiate throughout the divisions.

As far as getting drawn in by Hogan's politics, the 1998 contract says it all. Honestly, he probably didn't even need at Hogan at that point as he already served his purpose and by this point was really just getting in the way. Also, no way Vince comes anywhere near that offer, it was completely unnecessary.

[sfvega]

Dec 17, 2017 9:33:08 GMT -5 corndog said:

Dec 16, 2017 15:43:02 GMT -5 The Thread Barbi said:

Eric has the vision to step back and see the wider picture. When he's on form, he's a better businessman than Vince McMahon.

Problem is, he got sucked into the carny world by Hogan and crew. He gave the inmates the keys and they distorted his vision. See TNA.

I think if he was controlled by Ted Turner and held accountable, thereby leading a tight ship and staying vastly away from booking, WCW would last longer than it did.

Bischoff's vision was incredible, he had some ridiculously good ideas in Nitro and the nWo, but he never thought of where things would end up. Great examples are Hogan/Sting and the nWo itself. Although creative control with the top nWo guys probably played a big part.

One thing that put Bischoff above Vince was he didn't just work in a bubble with one set style. Nitro was so good(I think it ages better than Raw from the same era), because he had a little bit of everything and catered to the entire audience. Whether it was the indy riffic, high flying cruiserweights, the more technical mid-card or the storyline driven main event, it was all different. Vince always seems to have one set direction for the entire roster and doesn't really differentiate throughout the divisions.

As far as getting drawn in by Hogan's politics, the 1998 contract says it all. Honestly, he probably didn't even need at Hogan at that point as he already served his purpose and by this point was really just getting in the way. Also, no way Vince comes anywhere near that offer, it was completely unnecessary.

Absolutely. Bischoff was a visionary in that even with Turner's backing, nobody really thought of WCW as much more than a big territory. Clearly no one thought of them operating on the WWF's scale around 93. And no one thought them going to Mondays was going to be as fruitful as it was. These were giant swings in the dark at the time and he was connecting on a lot of them. I think at this point he doesn't get enough credit for trying to make them that big. People like to remember it as things all just falling into place for him, but he had to make some pretty heavy-handed promises to Turner and the networks, and somehow made good on them for years.

On 98, he really painted himself into a corner and didn't really negotiate with Hogan at all because they were tight. If anything, he probably upped the price on himself. But at the time, re-signing Hogan was a huge deal to the company. It was May, Goldberg hadn't gotten the rub yet, Hogan was still kind of a draw and their top heel. And the WWF had just started beating them and were running downhill. If Hogan somehow ends up on WWF facing Austin and doing ridiculous buyrates, Bischoff would have been the guy that would have had egg on his face. Of course, that wasn't really an option to Hogan who probably would have just been happy to get another of the same deal and not have to work many dates. As much as Bischoff loves to make deals and see himself as a dealmaker, he not only got taken to the cleaners by Hogan, he essentially took himself to he cleaners for Hogan. Which is a bad look for a guy whose big value was being a corporate guy. He was good at negotiating for WCW, but seemed to not really give a shit about negotiating with wrestlers so everybody got favorable deals.

[jason1980s]

I cant remember much memorable with the tag title scene in late 97-early 98 but Steiners, Heat and Hall/Nash BUT I thought 1994-1997 tag scene was pretty good. They had some regular teams and a few make shift teams that worked. Even though the title scene seemed to be non stop Nasty Boys/Harlem Heat for a while it still worked.